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I have been beating my head all weekend about this hybrid purchase.

well goodnews I made my decision

I'm gonna get an 04 civic LX instead. $16,100 OTD instead of $20,300 for the hybrid

plus I am not as worried about warranty issues and the car breaking.


now to convince the wife

 
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Reconsider..

If I had choice between LX and Hybrid.
I would pick Hybrid.

 
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If I were you i'd get an Ex

 
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I read this weekend that it takes 12 years to recoup the costs through increased fuel mileage. The hybrids don't get teh mileage that the EPA sticker says they do in real life driving.

 
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the engine in the hybrid is so freaking anemic...no power whatsoever. My friend has one, I believe its a 1.3L and he floors it every time he's going on the on-ramp. I'm not saying the ex engine is a beast, but compared to the hybrid...big difference.

 
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just depends what you want. the hybrid gets alot of niceties and a bit more upscale interior then the lx, but it is freakin slow.

 
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oh yes indeed!

it's so freakin hard to accelerate that car.....my aunt got one...i drove it back forward from NY to NJ....

anyway, it doesn't provide you with good MPG in highway.....only in City...

somehow, we only got 30MPG on the highway....there must be some mistake...

 
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If I were you, I would pick KIA Sephia..., why? no reason...

 
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well I would get an EX but I don't want a moonroof...bad experiences with them in 2 other cars


what is the most I should pay OTD if the dealer is asking 16,160 for the car

I was thinking OTD at 16,000-16,100

 
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well i got my 2004 civic ex 5spd coupe for $15,300 with 45 miles which was a real good deal imo

 
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hmmm what was the invoice on it though ^

 
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Well, good luck w/ your purchase. I'm glad you looked at the differences between them and stuff before you have decided w/ch to buy. If you can't convince your wife then at least show her that it just doesn't add up financially if you're going to drive less that 20k miles a year (remember the other post, that was the # of miles per year.)

 
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I'd get the LX too. Now that they've moved over most of what was better about the EX (cd player, I believe ABS, 15" wheels), I'd buy an LX. That's coming from an EX owner, by the way.

 
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^ I think the ABS is still only available on the EX, but yeah, 15"ers and cd player comes standard on the LX, which is a great deal if you don't want the sunroof. I see them as great deals too.

 
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Which LX do you want?
CIVIC LX--4-CYL (1.7 Liter)
EM2154PW Coupe 2D (5-Spd) (w/o Side Air Bags)
EM2254PW Coupe 2D (Auto) (w/o Side Air Bags)
EM2164PBW Coupe 2D (5-Spd) (w/Side Air Bags)
EM2264PBW Coupe 2D (Auto) (w/Side Air Bags)
ES1554PW Sedan 4D (5-Spd) (w/o Side Air Bags)
ES1654PW Sedan 4D (Auto) (w/o Side Air Bags)
ES1564PBW Sedan 4D (5-Spd) (w/Side Air Bags)
ES1664PBW Sedan 4D (Auto) (w/Side Air Bags)
The example I will show below is for an LX Sedan 2004 with manual tranny and no side air bags.

Here we go with the break down of how much to pay the dealer:
First go to Carsdirect.com and find the target price for the car you want.
for my zipcode Carsdirect.com target price on the vehicle by itself is $14,131.
Now the factory holdback on the vehicle is 2% of the MSRP price. That would be $15,850 * .02 = $317.
That means the dealers actual cost for that vehicle IS $14,131 - $317 = $13,814. Lets say you want the dealership to profit 2%. 2% of $13,814 = $276.28. Add $13,814 + $276.28 = $14,090.28. Add $490 for Destination Charge and that will be $14,580.28. Adding in the 5% tax in MD which would be $729.01 = $15,309.29.

Below is factory holdback information:
CAR MAKE DEALER HOLDBACK
Acura 2% of base MSRP *
Audi No holdback offered
BMW No holdback offered
Buick 3% of total MSRP †
Cadillac 3% of total MSRP
Chevrolet 3% of total MSRP
Chrysler 3% of total MSRP
Daewoo no holdback – customer pays MSRP
Dodge 3% of total MSRP
Ford 3% of total MSRP
GMC 3% of total MSRP
Honda 2% of base MSRP (not including Prelude)
Hyundai 2% of total MSRP
Infiniti 1% of base MSRP plus 2% of base invoice
Isuzu 3% of total MSRP
Jaguar 2.2% of base invoice ‡
Jeep 3% of total MSRP
Kia 3% of base invoice
Land Rover no holdback
Lexus 2% of base MSRP
Lincoln 2% of total MSRP
Mazda 2% of base MSRP
Mercedes-Benz 3% of total MSRP
Mercury 3% of total MSRP
Mitsubishi 2% of base MSRP
Nissan 3% of total invoice §
Oldsmobile 3% of total MSRP
Plymouth 3% of total MSRP
Pontiac 3% of total MSRP
Porsche no holdback
Saab 2.2% of base MSRP
Saturn 3% of total MSRP
Subaru 3% of total MSRP
Suzuki 4% of base MSRP
Toyota 2% of base MSRP
Volkswagen 2% of base MSRP
Volvo 1% of base MSRP

 
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Thats not a bad price. Last December 2003 Honda had a $1,000 Factory to dealer secret incentive on 2004 Honda Civic Ex's. 2004 Civic Ex's were going out the door for ~15,200 easy. This was confirmed by a neighbor who works as a salesmen for honda. When he sold a Civic EX, he would get a percentage of the incentive. Additionally, carsdirect.com AND kbb.com did not make ANY mention of this incentive on there website. So not always do these website have all the information. Even site that charge you for the information I doubt would have known this incentive.

Anyways, dont pay more that the price I showed you out the door. Start negotiating with that price. the only think I forgot in that price is the cost of tags in your state. Also replace the 5% maryland tax with the % tax of your state.

Oren

 
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Try these 2 spreadsheets. The do ALL the calculations for you.
Spreadsheet #1
Spreadsheet #2

Also visit Carbuyingtips.

 
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Remember to always begotiating from that price I gave and NOT from the MSRP price down. Visit Carbuyingtips for many helpful buying tips.

 
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I say you get a Scion xB....seems to offer more value for the money. I'm not really fond of the updates on the 7thgens (headlights most notably). For reference i got my 02 ex sedan for 15500 OTD with 2 miles on it.

 
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I kinda like the hybrid... 47MPG... nice...

 
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thanks so much for that spreadsheet

I am infact going to otd for 15,412-15,500


that is an awesome tool

 
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1.3 ltr engine???