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I am not trying to continue from the other post on the 2005 Focus that got locked up because of stupid back and forth s**t. But I do know a few points that carry through.

One is that Honda has had VTEC for a while, Im not saying its god or it rules, just that we have had it. Ford then when the Focus came out put in Zetec, yes its an actualy word and Im assuming it does the same thing as VTEC for the most part.

My second point is my friend had an 01 or 02 Focus ZX3 automatic and that was when I owned my 94 Saturn SL1. Sure her car was quick, but I dont feel like it handled well, lots of roll imo. Then again she was riding all stock and I had a set of Toyo Proxes, front stb, and better brakes (powerslots with stillen pads). I used to beat her in my Saturn but I did have the car modded to a degree with the tires, stb, Injen intake, 8mm SPS wires, NGK V-spark plugs, MSD coils and a 5spd, with a MOS short shfiter. It was kinda close but I had a good 3/4 to 1 car length depending on the start we got.

Again Im not flaming the Focus by any means, but when I look at Ford and Honda, I see Honda as a better built car. Biggest mistake made by Honda, ditching the Si coupe. Biggest mistake by Ford, ditching the 5.0 for the 4.6 that had a ton of problems in its introduction. They came out with the 4.6 in 96, but the new body style was in 95 from the old GTs and it still had the 5.0.

Anyways, Honda hasnt made the best decissions either and more recently than not, the 04 Civic looks like a Protege almost, and the Si is in dyre need of a redesign. Ive owned a Ford, it was an 84 Escort which might be my reason for not liking Ford at all since the car was in the shop every weekend. I dont hate domestics, I used to own a Saturn with 5k invested. LOL try to figure out where I was able to find 5k worth of stuff for that car.

 
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ummm......ok

What does zetec stand for ?

and yes, honda needs to bring back the Si coupe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 
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Um, OK... You didn't really explain what Zetec is.

And the Civic Si was always a hatchback until they released the 99-00 Si in coupe form.

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, the 4.6 found in the 96+ mustangs is actually more "efficient" and lighter than the 5.0 engine.

 
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Oh and FYI 1994 was thre first year of the round style for the mustang.

I use to own a 99 Ford Escort ZX2. It had Zetec which is designed like Vtec, but it was only on the intake cam I believe(motor was DOHC). But they changed the design in 01 or 02 and it is on the intake and exhaust cams. Don't qoute me on that though.

 
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I thought you were going to compare Ford's Zetec and Honda's VTEC??

 
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i don't see any facts, just opinion

 
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The build quaity on Ford is quite sad... Thats why I make fun of people with Mustangs, sure its got a good engine..... But you dont want to know how the body is held together.........

 
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My brother is an ASE certified master tech who works at a Ford dealership. When I was researching new cars to buy this year(I ended up with an 03 EX!) I asked his advice. His only advice was "No matter what, don't get a Ford." Now, it very well may be that any mechanic who works for a dealership would not reccomend that car because all they see is the problems, but he says that it's not that. The overall build quality is very poor, moreso on their cars than trucks. He especially pointed out the V6 mustang convertible as amazingly poorly built.

Just so people know I don't just hate Fords, my mother owns an '00 F150 that's been amazing for her. Pulling livestock trailers, hauling firewood, easily traversing foot after foot of snow, basically do anything we ask it too.

 
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The body is held together like every other car in the world. NUTS AND BOLTS... also if the quality of the focus is so bad then why does it come with a 5yr 100000 mi. warranty. When has Honda done that. My civic had no major problems until about 38,000 miles. Hmmm that's funny. Here is a quote out of automobile magazine. "The best small car to drive" also it's car and driver ten best for 4 yrs straight. So if it's that shitty how does it rack up so many awards. Now granted I agree the car is damn ugly and the roofline is too high. I love my vic but I must say that I may trade it for the svt focus.

 
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actually the body is not held together with nuts and bolts.. its spot welded together. the parts attaced to the body are held on with nuts and bolts.

Most warrentys are not given because the car will last a long time, its given as an insentive to purchace the car....

as far as magazine quotes and awards.... I don't listen to them becaues many auto magazine have ties to certin auto manufacturers and thus are prone to giving biased reports on cars built by them. Also They are just driving the car, I've actually pulled them appart and seen how they go together. Its not award winning. Mustangs have some of the worst built chassis that I've ever seen, and if you dont believe me, go to a ford dealership and look at one. Look at the gaps between the door and the body, are they even all the way around? check out how the hood is on the car, once again check the gaps, are they even, how about is the hood height equal to the fenders at the corners. then look at the Decklid (trunk) I can just about guarantee that its not on straight... Build quality, its quite lacking. Then go look at a new accord, camery, or Maxima and compair....... there will be a noticeable difference.

 
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I was only kidding about the nuts and bolts part. I understand that the fit and finish isn't that good, Yes I also agree that Jap cars are put together alot better. But I think this forum is just comparing specs on the motors and the performance of one over the other. As far as magazine articles are concerned yes alot of them do have ties and so forth but I've seen at least five different mags saying the focus is better overall than the vic. There is no way that they all have ties with Ford. With warranty yeah it is an incentive but if Honda puts out such a great vehicle then why don't they offer a warr. like that?

 
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Tommy Boy: I can take a dump in a box and put a warranty on it if u would like.

 
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easy, because they have a reputation, and the corporate brass dont think its nescassary to put some long warranty on a car that people know will last, there doesnt need to be an incentive of a warranty to draw people in for reliability reasons.

 
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Oh yeah here's some specs on the 2 motors. Ford zetec 2.3l I4, Horsepower= 144@5750
Torque= 149@4200
Civic 1.7l I4
Horsepower=127@6300
torque=114@4800
So overall the focus make alot more power at alot less rpm those are the facts people

 
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^^^ domestic rice

 
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About the warranties:

Honda offers a competetive warranty because they don't want to lose too much money when people notice problems after 3 years, if any occur.
Other companies that have really long warranties don't have the reliability/ build quality associated with Honda or Toyota. They have to show that there will be support for their cars and that THEY have confidence in their own cars that it will last 5,7,10 years.

 
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I bought my first new car this year and I tirelessly researched every magazine and web site I could find. Everyone of them listed the civic as the top car in it's class for the last many years. Every one of them... In fact the Focus was always behind the Corolla and the protege. So I really don't know what you were reading.

AS for warrantys, come on. They are nothing but selling points. Ford needs a 100k warranty to sell cars just Hyundai does. Honda doesn't, they've built a reputation for making quality cars for years. Just look at how much the civic outsells the Focus and you'll see how powerful Honda's repuation for quality is.

Not to mention that Ford pays nothing for it's warranty work. Ask anyone who's ever worked for them. The Ford sales department loves the warranty, but the service department hates it. They get a ton of extra work that they barely get paid for because of it.

BTW, I have a 5yr 100k warranty on my civic...

 
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Oh yeah another fact the focus 2.3l is also a pzev motor. partial zero emisions vehicle. So for whoever it was on the other post stating how great the civics emissions are the focus actualkly puts out less. the vic is only a ulev.

 
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There is a reason the 2.3L motor makes more power and torque than the 1.7L motor. You see why? Because the Ford Zetec motor has more displacement. Bigger motor=more power and torque. Its a given. Just like the K24 motor. 160Hp and 151ft tq. So yes the new Focus motor is making more power than our D17. Plus you have to realize that it is also a DOHC.

But you are not comparing apples to apples. Take the K20A3 and compare it to the 2.0 Zetec motor. You can't compare the 2.3 Zetec motor to the D17 Vtec motor.

 
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VTEC refers to the variable cam timing within the Civic. Zetec refers to the actual engine itself. The newer Focus (2.3L) uses the Duratec engine which has been around for years (and rests in the Focus RS across the pond). To make this comparison is the equivilant of comparing apples to oranges. I don't know the actual reason behind why the name Zetec was used, it just as easily could have been a Ford marketing ploy to try to get people wanting Zetec like they like VTec. It's always funny to see someone come on to a Focus forum and talking about how they love the feel of their zetec kicking in.

The only argument I have to that is automatic drivetrain loss and a poor driver. An 80HP car, 85 at the most with those mods, and 300lbs vs a car with 130hp to me seems improbable. Not to mention you're comparing handling and speed here when you started talking about body roll. Beating a car in a straightline has nothing to do with handling, and if it was in curves, then it comes down to driver. I posted some numbers in the previous 2005 Focus thread of the Focus vs. Civic. Reguardless of what you felt in the car, the Focus posted better numbers meaning it handles slightly better than your Vic.

Everyone makes mistakes, I dont know if I agree with your worst decisions made by the two companies. At first I thought killing the SVT Focus was a completely retarded move but I now understand the motives behind it. Remember, we're taking economy cars and turning them into performance vehicles. Companies like Dodge, Subaru, and Mitsubishi seem to target the sport compact scene more than any other. I can't specifically say how much Honda promotes the sport compact scene so correct me if I'm wrong, but I know I've heard about the things the 3 companies I've mentioned are doing / have done. The SRT4 was a great step at pushing the market forward.

There's no doubt that the Civic is a more reliable car. For how long it's been around it should be. The 99-00 (I believe these are the correct years) Si coupe (like others mentioned) was the first coupe Si. Going back to the hatchback only makes sense, especially since at the time hatchbacks were the rave. I just hope that more companies start to push the envelope like Dodge is with the SRT4.

 
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Take into account that Honda tune-ups are set at 110,000 miles.

 
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I'd just like to point out that I'm not trying to make this a Civic vs. Focus thread, and no means condone it being so (as it seems it is)

This thread is WAY off topic, and really from the start was incorrect as VTEC and Zetec are two different things. Also, the 2.3L focus is NOT a Zetec, it's a Duratec. Different engine. The Duratec IIRC was a joint project by Ford/Mazda and is currently used in the Mazda3, Mazda6, and Focus.

I think Whelan should help clarify what his target was for this thread. Was it meant to be a comparison of Focus vs. Civic?

 
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Okay fine then using th 2.0l zetec still produces more horse at lower rpms than the vic and more torque also at lower rpms. It's funny how the title of this post is "facts only" then when I provide them everyone comes up with comments and opinions. SHOW ME FACTS PEOPLE! I don't care about opinions just like people don't care about mine. Also to jolly sid that 100,000 mile warranty your talking about YOU PAID FOR IT. If you think you got it for free then you obviously didn't read your contract well enough when you got your car. The focus gets that warranty for FREE. By the way the first tuneup isn't do for 100000miles so it's not far from the vic.

 
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I must say, ojjr22, you're quite the Focus-fanboy here. But you've shown nothing but ignorance with each post you've made. Better to look like an idiot than open your mouth and prove it, eh?

First, you make a stupid comment about cars being put together with nuts and bolts.
Zzyzx sets you straight on that.

Secondly, you try to save face and say that it was a joke. Then start another flame with "Honda puts out such a great vehicle then why don't they offer a warr. like that?"
civic01vtec & phatcyclist again put you in your place, stating the obvious..."corporate brass dont think its nescassary to put some long warranty on a car that people know will last, there doesnt need to be an incentive of a warranty to draw people in for reliability reasons."
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Third, here you go again, trying to spout horsepower and torque numbers.
Jodster slaps you back to reality this time. Ford only gets 144hp out of a 2.3 litre? and you compare it to the 115 from our D17? JDM honda gets 220hp from the K20 in Japan and 200hp in our market. And it's still .3 litres smaller!

And lastly, your start up about the "new" PZEV motor...acting as-if it were used in all Focus models. IT'S NOT! It was only just announced in January on this site:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/news/view.asp?linkid=309
"This PZEV powertrain will become the standard engine powering all California, New York, Vermont and Massachusetts Focus models beginning later in the first quarter. A year later, the all-new 2.3-liter I-4 engine will be introduced in all non-SVT Ford Focus models in the U.S."
So it's barely even in production, which makes it lousy flame ammunition.
So now I put you back to zero again. What's next?!?

 
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.

 
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HP at low RPMs is a bad thing.... You want high torque at High RPMS that way you can take advantage of Gearing for accleration. that and HP doesnt really mean much. its all about the Torque curve

so For perfrmance.... "Its better to make High torque at a High RPM then to make High Torque At a Low RPM"

 
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Now you're comparing the 2.0 litre to the D17? Man, give it up.
Let's compare motors with similar sizes....I'll even go down to the K20 in the Si.
Si =160hp
30 more than your 2.0

To argue that the standard motor in a Focus is better than the standard motor in a Civic is meaningless. Honda isn't even trying to compete with the base civic. That's what the Si is for.

 
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Okay f**k it I don't really give a **** what you say. I stated facts and people only want to be negative and try to start with me over bullsh!t. The title was facts on the two motors I stated them. Obviously you people just like to act like tough guys and flame people. It seems that whenever someone starts a thread asking a question or simply stating an opinion everyone wants to start flaming them. So what good are these forums then? Oh yeah by the way the pzev motor is out and has been. It being used in europe on the rs for a while. Also everyone talks about comparing apples to apples when I listed the horsepower ratings and then you come back talking about a jdm k20. A motor we don't even get in the states and where does a k20 come into this comparison anyway. I thought this was about a d17 and a zetec? So go ahead and flame or whatever else you want to do it only shows your ignorance even more.

 
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no, this was about vtec and zetec, not the D17