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seriously... i mean fuel economy at "optimal conditions"? WTF is that? i mean it should really be on daily driving... same thing goes with HP/Torque... most ppl probablly wont ever use all 240hp from the v6 accord..... so make it say 160 in normal driving... or something like that...

and im sick of ppl driving sports cars like grandmas... cars should be driven like they were designed to be driven...

 
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Hmm.... maybe, maybe not, but would you really want to your engine spinning at 5000+ RPM's in 1st and 2nd gear all the time while youre driving? Try cruising with those conditions

 
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I agree, cause I sure as hell dont get 31 mpg city. I dont know about the horsepower thing but for gas mileage yes.

 
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I agree. If you in any way consider your car a toy, THEN PLAY WITH IT!!

 
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I have done that to both my cars and they don't complain at all. My last car lasted me over 200K miles.

 
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so what your saying is in your past two cars, while not exceeding the speed limit aka no faster thn 65 you never went above 2nd gear? kinda sounds stupid to me. (since you can hit 65 in 2nd gear the higher rpm over what it woul be in third gear [at least in a civic engine] would put out more power and perform better)

 
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Okay I think we are reading the statement different. The way I interpret it was that in 1st and 2nd gear always go over 5,000 rpms not staying there all the time. So in 2nd once you gone over 5,000rpms shift to 3rd. That’s how I understand it.

 
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Ive shifted and continue at high RPM's on all of my cars, and ive never really had a problem. Just normal everyday driving i usually dont shift till 4000 for some reason. Especially with our cars, they dont really make any sort of "power" till over 3000. I guess it comes down to throttle response for me, even if im wasting gas.

 
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Well, on our Civics, max power (claimed) comes on at RPM's above 6000RPMs.... I just mentioned 5000 randomly. If you shift at 5000 youre not reaching the max power point. So if you always wanted the max power, you'd have to drive constantly at 6000..... meaning taking it up there and LEAVING it there. I'm sure a bunch of us shift at 5K every so often... that hardly does any damage. But staying up there.... hmmm....... thats different

 
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This statement does'nt make sense. If you were "taking up and leaving it there", you would'nt have max power anyway. MAX power may be at that RPM but it is also under WOT (Wide Open Throttle) conditions. In order to "leave it there" you would have to back off of the gas. If you didn't, your car would continue to accelerate and you would either shift or bump the rev limiter.

At any given speed our cars have a certain amount of resistance. There's wind resistance, internal drivetrain resistance, and rolling resistance from the tires meeting the road. If your engine generates more force than the resistance, you will accelerate. If your engine puts out less force, you will decellerate. If you reach an equalibrium in force your cars speed will remain constant.

With that in mind, while cruising, use the highest possible gear. That will conserve gas and provide the least possible wear to the vehicle. When you want to accelerate feel free to downshift and step on the gas. Wind the engine out if you want. The engine and driveline in our cars can take it. The only reason why you would want to short shift your engine and slowly accelerate is to conserve gas and thereby increases MPG.

 
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Hmm... perhaps I should have mentioned the engine is MAKING max power at that RPM. But it seems like your explanation is saying the engine is making 0 HP when it's not accelerating........

 
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about people driving sports cars slow. I see alot of old people in corvettes that drive slow as hell and my mom has a 02' trans am ws6 and drives slow as hell, but with me or my dad in the drivers seat the car does what it is supposed to. So if you are going to drive slow all the time and stop to make every turn, stick to your buicks, cadillacs, and lincolns.

 
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Max power at WOT. They do not go half throttle at the dynos. He is saying that the car is making enough power at cruising speeds. So if you were cruising at 50mph in second gear(thats about 6 grand for me), you would be generating the most horsepower but going the same speed as someone cruising in 4th gear at about 3 - 4 grand and putting out about 2/3 as much power. Then you would be wasting 1/3 of your power.

Anyone get the new import tuner? VTC in i-Vtec can change the cam timing plus 50 or minus 50 degrees depending on how you drive. They also told you that Toda makes the only cams legal in the SCCA and that companies like Mugen (explains why they are using the cams) are using it in their race cars. Some cools stuff. The Toda cams are for the Type-R but can be used on the K20A and gave the car 220 horses.

 
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You can't drive cars crazy all the time. I do agree that older people with fast cars drive them slow wayy to often though. If you bate them they will run you most of the time. And about cadillacs and lincolns. Some of those cars are pretty quick. The Seville STS with its 300 hp northstar engine could wax 80% of the people on this site... My dad has the new CTS, trust me, if you drove that thing you'd love it. Decent power with surprisingly good handling. Cadillac is starting to cater to the younger crowd.

 
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No, that is not what I am trying to say at all. The only time your car is making zero horsepower and is not accelerating, is when it's sitting in your driveway - engine off.

If you add up all of the forces of resistance acting upon your vehicle, they equal a certain amount of force acting in the opposite direction of the vehicles travel. To maintain a constant velocity. Let's, for the sake of argument, make up some numbers. If the drag on your car at 50 miles per hour is 40 HP then your engine needs to make at least 40 HP just to maintain the SAME speed. If your engine output exceeds that, you will accelerate. Let's say you output 60HP at a given RPM and given throttle position. You now have a force of 60HP minus the drag of 40HP. This net 20HP acts upon the mass of the vehicle and will cause it to accelerate.

You can easily see that engine RPM is only part of the equation towards determining the output of your engine with a little theoretical experiment. Keep your speed constant while in a low gear and your RPM around 6 grand. Now if you notice your throttle position, you will see that your foot might be roughly half way down. Press the gas pedal all the way down and your car will surge forward. Lift your foot and the car will slow down. Pretty obvious stuff.

This shows you how your cars engine RPM is more of a potential of power. Now the throttle body and fuel injectors act on the engine giving the cylinders the needed gas and air to make those MAX HP numbers. A dyno graph that is trying to show max torque and HP is ALWAYS done under WOT conditions.

So there is a difference in what you and I are saying. You seem to be saying that anytime the engine is at "that" rpm it IS making max power. I am saying that at "that" RPM the engine CAN make max power. It depends on throttle position. You should now understand why this statement ------>

<-------makes no sense. If you are at a constant 6000 then you are not accelerating, if your not accelerating your not making MAX power.

 
Rep Power: 338

personally i think the fuel economy is the dealer's last ditch effort to hook someone in the deal... i think that they should change those "estimated" figures to actual real driving figures

 
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I was under the impression that the Government mandates each vehicle type be rated. This is then posted on the sticker.

 
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i think so too... but the dealer's figures are not correct.. or under ideal conditions...

 
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I agree. I get on average about five MPG less than what the sticker promised me. But then again, I drive like an A-hole.

 
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Got cha MAtrix Shark

 
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You have a good grasp on everything. And i agree, i get about 5 less as well, cause i drive like an A-hole as well. Why?...because i can and its fun....plus i have alot of civic buddies around here and we go flying around some of the windy roads here.

 
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Of course on the other hand, if you drive these cars fairly nice, they will get the sticker amount. My dad drove my car to Tahoe(which is a mountainous city in Nor Cal) and he got 40mpg....so it can be done, even up in the mountains. You just gotta show alittle self control if you want to see those figures. Cause we all know it is fun to wait till that little red line to shift

 
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i get about 30 mpg or so, but then again i think my header and exhaust has something to do with, o yea i floor it all the time

 
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On our trip to VA from IL, my dad did 80 the whole way at about 3-4k RPM in a 2002 EX auto, and he got about 40-42 MPG.

When I use the car on the other hand, I drive it like I stole it. On days where I drive a lot, I live in the land of stop signs, so I get far less. Like a half a tank n 3 days or somethin like that.