Same engine more HP &TQ
10-18-2018
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Same engine more HP &TQ
I’m new here, Correct me if i’m wrong but, don’t the 10 gen civics ex-T and SI have the same engine. Why does the new Si have more than 20hp more than the ex-t. i just bought a 2017 ex-t cvt sedan and wondering why the difference in Hp is. (I’m starting to feel like crap about my decision but i don’t wanna feel bad about it until i can buy another car.) If anyone can link or comment any upgrades that aren’t major to warranty from dealership Thanks!!
10-18-2018
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Re: Same engine more HP &TQ
Actually, its a few different things.
Yes, tuning is one, but it has to do with the turbo design. Technically, yes, it's the same MHI TD03 Turbo. However, the Si and CRV turbo assemblies have a different turbine wheel that creates more boost for the same exhaust flow (9-blade vs 11-blade turbine wheel making 20.3psi vs 16.5psi rated boost at stock tune).
Couple that with a slightly lower compression ratio (10.3:1 vs the "base" L15's 10.6:1), allows the engine to handle more boost. They've also got beefier rods (yes, they are a direct drop in to the base L15), larger MAF housing, digital (vs. analog) MAF sensor, more free-flowing exhaust, and a handful of other things.
The Sport hatch also has a few changes to it that make it a hair more powerful than the LX/EX turbos (Sport/ST are rated at 180hp, LX/EX are rated at 172hp). Tuning and more free flowing exhaust do help. Also something about the knock sensor that allows the ECU to change on the fly with regards to 87 or 91 octane being put through it. Last night, I installed a 27WON intake in my buddy's 16 EX-T, and he even mentioned that my 18 Sport Hatch (with my DIY SRI) pulled harder than his.
Other options out there: Ktuner v1.2 will run you about $450, and they come with base tunes for +0 tune (removes the boost limitation if torque demand is met, thus giving you the full 16.5psi), +3psi, +6psi, and IIRC, +9psi tunes. Just a sidenote: The boost gauge on your ex-t is basically there to make you happy. Sure, it'll "read" 16.5psi, but it's calculated. If your car reaches torque demand, it'll limit boost pressure. Reading actual manifold pressures, I've only seen 9.2psi max. There've been people running these tunes since 2016 with no issues. +6psi tune is what I've been reading as the most you should push the CVT. There's also the Ktuner V2, which will run you $650. Same maps and tuning software as the V1.2, but it comes with a touchscreen tablet that you can use to change the tunes with as opposed to dragging a laptop around. Will is void warranty? Probably, especially if you bring it in for warranty work and don't flash the ECU back to stock. Even then, will it? I have no idea what Honda techs can see as far as your car's "history" goes when you bring it in, so do so at your own risk.
edit: personally, I like the look of the hatch better, would've liked a 6MT, but the paddle shifters on my 18 Sport was enough to make me happy. $450 to get my hatch's horsepower/torque up and over an Si or pay the extra couple thousand bucks for an Si? Yeah, I'll go with the former option. That, and the CVT has this wonderful habit of keeping you in peak torque band as you're accelerating hard (seriously sits at 5000-5500RPM with the pedal about 3/4 of the way depressed), making for faster acceleration. Sure, the turbo lag from idle to about 3000RPM sucks for acceleration, but as soon as it hits 5k and sits there, you're taking off.
Yes, tuning is one, but it has to do with the turbo design. Technically, yes, it's the same MHI TD03 Turbo. However, the Si and CRV turbo assemblies have a different turbine wheel that creates more boost for the same exhaust flow (9-blade vs 11-blade turbine wheel making 20.3psi vs 16.5psi rated boost at stock tune).
Couple that with a slightly lower compression ratio (10.3:1 vs the "base" L15's 10.6:1), allows the engine to handle more boost. They've also got beefier rods (yes, they are a direct drop in to the base L15), larger MAF housing, digital (vs. analog) MAF sensor, more free-flowing exhaust, and a handful of other things.
The Sport hatch also has a few changes to it that make it a hair more powerful than the LX/EX turbos (Sport/ST are rated at 180hp, LX/EX are rated at 172hp). Tuning and more free flowing exhaust do help. Also something about the knock sensor that allows the ECU to change on the fly with regards to 87 or 91 octane being put through it. Last night, I installed a 27WON intake in my buddy's 16 EX-T, and he even mentioned that my 18 Sport Hatch (with my DIY SRI) pulled harder than his.
Other options out there: Ktuner v1.2 will run you about $450, and they come with base tunes for +0 tune (removes the boost limitation if torque demand is met, thus giving you the full 16.5psi), +3psi, +6psi, and IIRC, +9psi tunes. Just a sidenote: The boost gauge on your ex-t is basically there to make you happy. Sure, it'll "read" 16.5psi, but it's calculated. If your car reaches torque demand, it'll limit boost pressure. Reading actual manifold pressures, I've only seen 9.2psi max. There've been people running these tunes since 2016 with no issues. +6psi tune is what I've been reading as the most you should push the CVT. There's also the Ktuner V2, which will run you $650. Same maps and tuning software as the V1.2, but it comes with a touchscreen tablet that you can use to change the tunes with as opposed to dragging a laptop around. Will is void warranty? Probably, especially if you bring it in for warranty work and don't flash the ECU back to stock. Even then, will it? I have no idea what Honda techs can see as far as your car's "history" goes when you bring it in, so do so at your own risk.
edit: personally, I like the look of the hatch better, would've liked a 6MT, but the paddle shifters on my 18 Sport was enough to make me happy. $450 to get my hatch's horsepower/torque up and over an Si or pay the extra couple thousand bucks for an Si? Yeah, I'll go with the former option. That, and the CVT has this wonderful habit of keeping you in peak torque band as you're accelerating hard (seriously sits at 5000-5500RPM with the pedal about 3/4 of the way depressed), making for faster acceleration. Sure, the turbo lag from idle to about 3000RPM sucks for acceleration, but as soon as it hits 5k and sits there, you're taking off.
Last edited by xRiCeBoYx; 10-18-2018 at 12:21 PM.
10-18-2018
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Actually, its a few different things.
Yes, tuning is one, but it has to do with the turbo design. Technically, yes, it's the same MHI TD03 Turbo. However, the Si and CRV turbo assemblies have a different turbine wheel that creates more boost for the same exhaust flow (9-blade vs 11-blade turbine wheel making 20.3psi vs 16.5psi rated boost at stock tune).
Couple that with a slightly lower compression ratio (10.3:1 vs the "base" L15's 10.6:1), allows the engine to handle more boost. They've also got beefier rods (yes, they are a direct drop in to the base L15), larger MAF housing, digital (vs. analog) MAF sensor, more free-flowing exhaust, and a handful of other things.
The Sport hatch also has a few changes to it that make it a hair more powerful than the LX/EX turbos (Sport/ST are rated at 180hp, LX/EX are rated at 172hp). Tuning and more free flowing exhaust do help. Also something about the knock sensor that allows the ECU to change on the fly with regards to 87 or 91 octane being put through it. Last night, I installed a 27WON intake in my buddy's 16 EX-T, and he even mentioned that my 18 Sport Hatch (with my DIY SRI) pulled harder than his.
Other options out there: Ktuner v1.2 will run you about $450, and they come with base tunes for +0 tune (removes the boost limitation if torque demand is met, thus giving you the full 16.5psi), +3psi, +6psi, and IIRC, +9psi tunes. Just a sidenote: The boost gauge on your ex-t is basically there to make you happy. Sure, it'll "read" 16.5psi, but it's calculated. If your car reaches torque demand, it'll limit boost pressure. Reading actual manifold pressures, I've only seen 9.2psi max. There've been people running these tunes since 2016 with no issues. +6psi tune is what I've been reading as the most you should push the CVT. There's also the Ktuner V2, which will run you $650. Same maps and tuning software as the V1.2, but it comes with a touchscreen tablet that you can use to change the tunes with as opposed to dragging a laptop around. Will is void warranty? Probably, especially if you bring it in for warranty work and don't flash the ECU back to stock. Even then, will it? I have no idea what Honda techs can see as far as your car's "history" goes when you bring it in, so do so at your own risk.
edit: personally, I like the look of the hatch better, would've liked a 6MT, but the paddle shifters on my 18 Sport was enough to make me happy. $450 to get my hatch's horsepower/torque up and over an Si or pay the extra couple thousand bucks for an Si? Yeah, I'll go with the former option. That, and the CVT has this wonderful habit of keeping you in peak torque band as you're accelerating hard (seriously sits at 5000-5500RPM with the pedal about 3/4 of the way depressed), making for faster acceleration. Sure, the turbo lag from idle to about 3000RPM sucks for acceleration, but as soon as it hits 5k and sits there, you're taking off.
Yes, tuning is one, but it has to do with the turbo design. Technically, yes, it's the same MHI TD03 Turbo. However, the Si and CRV turbo assemblies have a different turbine wheel that creates more boost for the same exhaust flow (9-blade vs 11-blade turbine wheel making 20.3psi vs 16.5psi rated boost at stock tune).
Couple that with a slightly lower compression ratio (10.3:1 vs the "base" L15's 10.6:1), allows the engine to handle more boost. They've also got beefier rods (yes, they are a direct drop in to the base L15), larger MAF housing, digital (vs. analog) MAF sensor, more free-flowing exhaust, and a handful of other things.
The Sport hatch also has a few changes to it that make it a hair more powerful than the LX/EX turbos (Sport/ST are rated at 180hp, LX/EX are rated at 172hp). Tuning and more free flowing exhaust do help. Also something about the knock sensor that allows the ECU to change on the fly with regards to 87 or 91 octane being put through it. Last night, I installed a 27WON intake in my buddy's 16 EX-T, and he even mentioned that my 18 Sport Hatch (with my DIY SRI) pulled harder than his.
Other options out there: Ktuner v1.2 will run you about $450, and they come with base tunes for +0 tune (removes the boost limitation if torque demand is met, thus giving you the full 16.5psi), +3psi, +6psi, and IIRC, +9psi tunes. Just a sidenote: The boost gauge on your ex-t is basically there to make you happy. Sure, it'll "read" 16.5psi, but it's calculated. If your car reaches torque demand, it'll limit boost pressure. Reading actual manifold pressures, I've only seen 9.2psi max. There've been people running these tunes since 2016 with no issues. +6psi tune is what I've been reading as the most you should push the CVT. There's also the Ktuner V2, which will run you $650. Same maps and tuning software as the V1.2, but it comes with a touchscreen tablet that you can use to change the tunes with as opposed to dragging a laptop around. Will is void warranty? Probably, especially if you bring it in for warranty work and don't flash the ECU back to stock. Even then, will it? I have no idea what Honda techs can see as far as your car's "history" goes when you bring it in, so do so at your own risk.
edit: personally, I like the look of the hatch better, would've liked a 6MT, but the paddle shifters on my 18 Sport was enough to make me happy. $450 to get my hatch's horsepower/torque up and over an Si or pay the extra couple thousand bucks for an Si? Yeah, I'll go with the former option. That, and the CVT has this wonderful habit of keeping you in peak torque band as you're accelerating hard (seriously sits at 5000-5500RPM with the pedal about 3/4 of the way depressed), making for faster acceleration. Sure, the turbo lag from idle to about 3000RPM sucks for acceleration, but as soon as it hits 5k and sits there, you're taking off.
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