KMS Intake Manifold Thread #2 *Continued*
Escaped Convict
iTrader: (30)
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 6,450
Likes: 0
From: Westminster, California, US
Rep Power: 368 
NA = bling bling.
its not cool that he made it sound like its a bolt-on that will yield power right off the bat.
didn't they (KMS) said something about it on a stock LX and it gain 7 more hp somewhere in the powerband?
be funny if it took those 7 hp from the top end.. -_-
anyway the way things are going I wouldn't slap so much money into it too cwick187,
I agreed with the concept of tunning a product such as this to get maximum benefit... but I'd be pissed too to not know about this before investing in a $500+ manifold.
its not cool that he made it sound like its a bolt-on that will yield power right off the bat.
didn't they (KMS) said something about it on a stock LX and it gain 7 more hp somewhere in the powerband?
be funny if it took those 7 hp from the top end.. -_-
anyway the way things are going I wouldn't slap so much money into it too cwick187,
I agreed with the concept of tunning a product such as this to get maximum benefit... but I'd be pissed too to not know about this before investing in a $500+ manifold.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: so cal djmota=oscar
Rep Power: 323 cwick187 Don't take the manifold off and maybe see if he will fork over the cash for a dyno run. There are a few base line runs laying around for the uninstalled comparison.
This is just a shot in the dark. But if he would go for it, It would prove or disprove what we think has happened. Have him get online and read what we have written.
I am willing to buy a cam gear and try it out. The gtech should at least get me in the ballpark with the different settings. BUT if it doesn't do as promised I would be screwed even more than before. Not saying that I am screwed now because I have not heard John's reply and do not want to bad mouth the guy.
I want to hear that there is some kind of gurantee that the cam gear is going to make everything all better, before I gamble another $130.00 of my hard earned cash. My funds are pretty low right now. It would be a while untill I could afford the gear. But If there was some type of guarantee of gains then maybe I would credit card the gear. And if that failed money back would be in order.
This is just a shot in the dark. But if he would go for it, It would prove or disprove what we think has happened. Have him get online and read what we have written.
I am willing to buy a cam gear and try it out. The gtech should at least get me in the ballpark with the different settings. BUT if it doesn't do as promised I would be screwed even more than before. Not saying that I am screwed now because I have not heard John's reply and do not want to bad mouth the guy.
I want to hear that there is some kind of gurantee that the cam gear is going to make everything all better, before I gamble another $130.00 of my hard earned cash. My funds are pretty low right now. It would be a while untill I could afford the gear. But If there was some type of guarantee of gains then maybe I would credit card the gear. And if that failed money back would be in order.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
From: Fairfax, VA (703)
Rep Power: 0 Called John...
Alright Guys,
I called John and straightened things out. Herre's the deal... Here's my convo on AIM:
Robb Cortez: hey john
KMS Engines: hello
Robb Cortez: i have a concern
KMS Engines: Yes ?
KMS Engines: Hello?
Robb Cortez: well.. some people who have installed the manifold you made for our cars are kind of disappointed... i dont know if youve read the posts or not on 2k1civic.com
Robb Cortez: they said they lost power, etc...
Robb Cortez: and that better r&d should have been done...
KMS Engines: Call me 770-784-1801
Robb Cortez: k
This is what he said on the phone, "I'm not going to lose to one guy who used a GTECH that gives different results everytime. I have a $7000 flowbench that I tested it with and it does flow more. You never know how the install was when they put it on...vacuum leaks, etc..." and so forth the conversation went. I think this guy is really good at what he does and I don't think we should be disappointed just because a few people haven't noticed any significant gains. He also told me that "the car is probably running too lean" and "you have to retard the timing" and so forth with an adjustable cam gear. I believe this guy. We have 5x more potential with this manifold. We can add nitrous, turbo, set it on fire, it will be fine... Ya know? He also said that with proper tuning he saw results of like 15hp gain (not sure if at the wheels or not) and that it does add more torque... It makes our cars all the more ready for other mods like turbo. I am going to drive up to his shop, he will install it for me for $150 and then take my car to "one of the best tuners in the US" and tune it himself for 3 hours = $300. What do you guys think?
He also said that the V-AFC will play a huge role in the tuning of it so I am glad I have one.
Let's not get too disappointed.
I called John and straightened things out. Herre's the deal... Here's my convo on AIM:
Robb Cortez: hey john
KMS Engines: hello
Robb Cortez: i have a concern
KMS Engines: Yes ?
KMS Engines: Hello?
Robb Cortez: well.. some people who have installed the manifold you made for our cars are kind of disappointed... i dont know if youve read the posts or not on 2k1civic.com
Robb Cortez: they said they lost power, etc...
Robb Cortez: and that better r&d should have been done...
KMS Engines: Call me 770-784-1801
Robb Cortez: k
This is what he said on the phone, "I'm not going to lose to one guy who used a GTECH that gives different results everytime. I have a $7000 flowbench that I tested it with and it does flow more. You never know how the install was when they put it on...vacuum leaks, etc..." and so forth the conversation went. I think this guy is really good at what he does and I don't think we should be disappointed just because a few people haven't noticed any significant gains. He also told me that "the car is probably running too lean" and "you have to retard the timing" and so forth with an adjustable cam gear. I believe this guy. We have 5x more potential with this manifold. We can add nitrous, turbo, set it on fire, it will be fine... Ya know? He also said that with proper tuning he saw results of like 15hp gain (not sure if at the wheels or not) and that it does add more torque... It makes our cars all the more ready for other mods like turbo. I am going to drive up to his shop, he will install it for me for $150 and then take my car to "one of the best tuners in the US" and tune it himself for 3 hours = $300. What do you guys think?
He also said that the V-AFC will play a huge role in the tuning of it so I am glad I have one.
Let's not get too disappointed.
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville, Ga.
Rep Power: 0 That sounds good Robb...John is a nice guy and I have personally seen his shop, but I'm just worried about getting the cam gears and having the car tuned to find out that it didn't improve things....But none-the-less, I will go ahead and try everything I can to see if this works...I want everyone here to be happy and if it means that I have to fork out more cash for the cam gears, I'll do it... I might have to wait awhile longer for the dyno tuning run so I'll have enough $ for the cam gears. Ed at balanced performance (where I'll be taking my car to have it tuned) is supposed to be one of the best tuners in the states..(as Robb said) so I'm not gonna give up just yet 
i have to say that i don't remember him ever stating the gains or what not. i think we all assumed some gigantic increase in power just from this mod alone. i do think however that because it is john at kms and that he is reputable that he wouldn't sell something that doesn't do anything. true at first he didn't say we would need additional tuning, but then again that should have been expected. most people changing thier intake manifold are very serious about tunning thier cars, so we have no argument on that point.
will it do what he claims now? i guess we will have to wait and see but, if he said that it can be done then i personally believe him. just my 2 cents.
will it do what he claims now? i guess we will have to wait and see but, if he said that it can be done then i personally believe him. just my 2 cents.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,950
Likes: 0
From: San Diego, Ca
Rep Power: 383 
isn't this the same one that was put on the N/A civic they did, if so then doesn't it show something? I mean trust that eventually it will pay off
Registered!!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas, US
Rep Power: 375 Originally posted by orso
i have to say that i don't remember him ever stating the gains or what not. i think we all assumed some gigantic increase in power just from this mod alone. i do think however that because it is john at kms and that he is reputable that he wouldn't sell something that doesn't do anything. true at first he didn't say we would need additional tuning, but then again that should have been expected. most people changing thier intake manifold are very serious about tunning thier cars, so we have no argument on that point.
will it do what he claims now? i guess we will have to wait and see but, if he said that it can be done then i personally believe him. just my 2 cents.
i have to say that i don't remember him ever stating the gains or what not. i think we all assumed some gigantic increase in power just from this mod alone. i do think however that because it is john at kms and that he is reputable that he wouldn't sell something that doesn't do anything. true at first he didn't say we would need additional tuning, but then again that should have been expected. most people changing thier intake manifold are very serious about tunning thier cars, so we have no argument on that point.
will it do what he claims now? i guess we will have to wait and see but, if he said that it can be done then i personally believe him. just my 2 cents.
Originally posted by runner1738
isn't this the same one that was put on the N/A civic they did, if so then doesn't it show something? I mean trust that eventually it will pay off
isn't this the same one that was put on the N/A civic they did, if so then doesn't it show something? I mean trust that eventually it will pay off
The N/A civic didnt have an intake manifold, it had individual throttle bodies.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,242
Likes: 0
From: so cal djmota=oscar
Rep Power: 323 I have never doubted John's word But along with everyone else, I was under the impression that This would bolt on gains. Once I had gone thru the install and felt and then measured the rusults I was dissappointed. After the long wait, money spent, and time to install, what do you expect. We all know gtech is not an accurate way to dyno your car but, a gain is a gain and a loss is a loss. I am gald to hear John back his work, this restores my confidence in his product. I will purchase a cam gear and try my hand at tuneing it. If I am unsuccesful, I will take it to a professional tuner with vafc in the other hand and let them go at it. I believe now that in the end this investment will work out.
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
From: Gainesville, Ga.
Rep Power: 0 I'm with you dj, I just wanted to save money for my wheels and body kit...Now I have to get cam gears and I'm thinking about getting a pulley set. I called the place where the dyno tuning will take place and had to tell them to cancel my appointment on the 7th so I could get the gears. Hopefully, I will be tuning my car the 3rd week in July.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
Likes: 3
From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 Hey guys...
I read this entire post, but didn't read the first one, so forgive me if I missed something in it, but could it be possible that the engine is getting starved for air at higher RPMs? I mean... if it flows more, and there's more internal volume in the manifold, it may not be running down the intake ports with the same velocity... which would give you less air in the engine since the valves are open the same length. Have any of you guys thought about going to a shop and having them hook the car to diagnostics and compare the MAP (manifold air pressure) between stock and the new manifold? It might just be that you need a higher lift or longer duration VTEC lobe on the cam to get enough air in the engine for it to make high end power. It's just a thought, but something you may want to think about. But like I said... I didn't read all of the 1st thread, so if I missed something about this being a stand alone bolt on that adds power... sorry, but it just seems to me that this would come as part of a full head build up if you really wanted to see some noticable gains from it.
I read this entire post, but didn't read the first one, so forgive me if I missed something in it, but could it be possible that the engine is getting starved for air at higher RPMs? I mean... if it flows more, and there's more internal volume in the manifold, it may not be running down the intake ports with the same velocity... which would give you less air in the engine since the valves are open the same length. Have any of you guys thought about going to a shop and having them hook the car to diagnostics and compare the MAP (manifold air pressure) between stock and the new manifold? It might just be that you need a higher lift or longer duration VTEC lobe on the cam to get enough air in the engine for it to make high end power. It's just a thought, but something you may want to think about. But like I said... I didn't read all of the 1st thread, so if I missed something about this being a stand alone bolt on that adds power... sorry, but it just seems to me that this would come as part of a full head build up if you really wanted to see some noticable gains from it.
Registered!!
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 0
From: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, US
Rep Power: 0 The only benifit to this intake manifold is that unlike the stock one on a 7thgen gen civic, it wont melt or explode when using nitrous. However the stock one is plastic and does stay much cooler and is lighter. If anyone would like to sell theres to me cheap let me know by emailing me at sk8bord129@aol.com
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: Arlington Heights, Illinois
Rep Power: 0 So if this IM is stronger then stock one, as far as NOS goes, could I run bigger NOS setup then 50 shot, or would I still have to upgrade the internals ? Well, I know head gasket would be a must but other parts... ?
Originally posted by RedDragon333
I have had numerous conversations with this guy(John) and he did state a est. 7hp on the Lx would be gained by just bolting it on. this comment was made on more than one occasions with more than one buyer. IM still a little upset about the gains but ima wait things out and do some more research into this.
I have had numerous conversations with this guy(John) and he did state a est. 7hp on the Lx would be gained by just bolting it on. this comment was made on more than one occasions with more than one buyer. IM still a little upset about the gains but ima wait things out and do some more research into this.
Registered!!
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 457
Likes: 0
From: Arlington Heights, Illinois
Rep Power: 0 John problably said you gain on low end but you lose on top end. Thats why later in his conversation with one of the guys he mentioned cam gear. Get it, retard it. Dont advance it, bcs thats's for acceleration (low end). Parts work with each other. Key word being TUNE IT!
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
From: Bay Area, California
Rep Power: 0 A lot of you guys are getting wrapped around the axle over this. The fact is you can't bolt on a single part and expect big gains. It doesn't work that way (well, except for power adders). It's the combination that makes the difference. One part affects most of the rest and you need to plan your modifications accodingly.
If I were to slap a tunnel ram on my 351C, it would dog off the line and run like crap. If I boost compression to 14:1, get lighter pistons, and get a cam to match, etc., it can make 600 hp at 8,000 rpm. The stock motor costs $2,500 to rebuild, my 425 hp version was $7,000, the 600 hp version is closer to $12,000. You get what you pay for.
It is not unreasonable to have to mess with the timing and other stuff when putting on an IM. Our motors are not powerhouses waiting to be unleashed. They are well built economy motors. It isn't cheap to take them to the next level. Cough up what it costs to make the hp you want and quit whining.
If I were to slap a tunnel ram on my 351C, it would dog off the line and run like crap. If I boost compression to 14:1, get lighter pistons, and get a cam to match, etc., it can make 600 hp at 8,000 rpm. The stock motor costs $2,500 to rebuild, my 425 hp version was $7,000, the 600 hp version is closer to $12,000. You get what you pay for.
It is not unreasonable to have to mess with the timing and other stuff when putting on an IM. Our motors are not powerhouses waiting to be unleashed. They are well built economy motors. It isn't cheap to take them to the next level. Cough up what it costs to make the hp you want and quit whining.
Registered!!
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,489
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas, US
Rep Power: 0 Damn that sucks. I was gonna buy this IM from 2low4u. From what he said he felt a big difference but just needs the money. So I was gonna get it at a very good price but now Im not sure. He also has a cam gear so maybe thats why he feels a difference. 
Registered!!
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 993
Likes: 0
From: Secane, PA (3 miles outside Philly)
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by TOOLOWCIVIC
Damn that sucks. I was gonna buy this IM from 2low4u. From what he said he felt a big difference but just needs the money. So I was gonna get it at a very good price but now Im not sure. He also has a cam gear so maybe thats why he feels a difference.
Damn that sucks. I was gonna buy this IM from 2low4u. From what he said he felt a big difference but just needs the money. So I was gonna get it at a very good price but now Im not sure. He also has a cam gear so maybe thats why he feels a difference.
Registered!!
iTrader: (4)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas, US
Rep Power: 375 its not that its a POS but i think that most of the people that bought it expected immediate HP gains even if they were minimal. He(John)never mentioned having to have other parts to get it to work the wayw e expected.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,056
Likes: 1
Rep Power: 344 maybe this is why my d17 decided to go for a drink?? i was gonna get one of the kms intake manifolds.
Sorry to hear about the problems guys, maybe once you get some more fuel to match the air, and some propper tuning the motor will come to life.
Sorry to hear about the problems guys, maybe once you get some more fuel to match the air, and some propper tuning the motor will come to life.
