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After seeing these numbers from the custom turbos I've decided I'm going to go get a swap instead. I figure by the end of this summer I'll have $4500 saved up and by the end of next summer I'll have $10,000+ for the swap. Hopefully the swap would be alittle cheaper then it is right now.

 
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For that kind of cash, you can build your SOHC to kill anything out there on street.

 
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na, just get a type s engine, then a turbo on that, and it will be at 300 hp with stock internals, then upgrade those and it will be about 500-700 hp

max with our engines is about 250 hp, fully rebuilt with 11.5 to 1 compression ration, and redline of 9,000 rpm

 
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Oh I forgot.....I was an idiot and got an automatic when I bought my car . Now I want a manual so I'll might as well go all out and get the K20A2. I'm not sure if I want to turbo my car just yet. I mean the K20A2 is fast enough for me. I don't really know why people want to go fast anyways.

 
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You might want to push that 250 max number lil' bit up north. Blocks can handle 350-400hp.

 
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Exactly. People talk about how well-built these cars are and then turn around and figure the very heart of the car easily folds under pressure. I'm sure you could get upwards of 400 or more from the stock block; but if you aren't comfortable with that, there are other ways to rebuild the stock engine to support more power without going so far as to swap out the engine altogether.

Another flaw I see in the "logic" a lot of people are using is simply that very few here are realistic about how much work and money they are willing to dump into their Civics. $10,000 to gain ~200cc's of displacement and DOHC? The fact will always remain that more displacement allows for more power, but d*mn, man...another 200cc's isn't worth $10,000! If you wanted the horsepower that engine has in its stock form, just do to your engine that which has already been done to the other engine...TUNE IT! Also, might I mention that you are planning to spend $10,000 to gain 73 horsepower and a little more flexibility with tuning. For less than $7000, you can buy a 2000 Ford Mustang or Chevy Camaro and drop a high performance crate engine in it for another $4000 and have 600+ horsepower vs. 200 horsepower. If you are really that determined to build your Civic because you love it more than any other car you can afford, then do what makes you happy....but if you are just wanting a fast ride, you need to rethink some things.

If you are sticking to the route of building your Civic, you might want to wait for the K24 swap if you are aiming to tune the heck out of whatever you're going to drop into your engine bay.

Just my 2 cents.

 
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we have a member on here who got those numbers with a fully built NA and a 100 shot of NOS, i forgot who it was... but its no bs, always remember my sig.

 
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If he "fully" built that D17 and only got 250 hp, then he overlooked something vital. One thing every engine builder has to remember is that an engine is only as powerful as its weakest part. Plus, I sure wouldn't ever try to build a 4-cylinder without starting with a turbo or supercharger. Getting a lot of power out of an NA 4-banger requires BIG $$$$$$$$$$ and major sacrifices in streetability.

 
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Are the internals different in the K20a?

 
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Most certainly. I've never had the opportunity to pull one apart and look at it beside a D17, but if I ever had the opportunity, I'd definitely be taking pictures and posting to the site.

 
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Of course.
They are really different.
It's an entirely different engine, except for the H badge on it.

 
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im sick of people still thinking that a swap costs 10 grand. It doesnt.
Hawk bought his entire car for around 5 grand, add about another grand or so on top of that and his car has the swap, seats, rear disc, 5 lug conversion on it.
My entire swap is costing me 5 grand max.
Htown's was 10 grand because it was the first...there was a lot of labor charges with it, and a lot of custom work that had to be done with it. Custom work isnt cheap.
K series motors are going down in price it seems like every week. There is one on EBay right now for a "buy it now" price of $3500. I bought mine in april for $3800.
If you watch where you put your money, im sure you could do your swap for $4500 at the end of the summer.

 
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God damn where the hell have I been living under? A rock? So I can maybe do the swap even sooner now.

 
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Man to each huis own. I thought about building the D17 than rethought and figured why not go with a K20A2 and tune that one. Its not as $$$ as it once was. You want to tune the D17 go for it. I personally like the idea of a K20A2 under my hood

 
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What about new keys and **** like that? add that to the price too and incase your ecu is spitting out codes that you have no clue of what they are dealership isn't going to help you out for free.

 
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I saw that one you're talking about. It's actually a base RSX motor for $3500 (Buy It Now). But there is a Type-S motor for $4250 (Buy It Now). I saw it here.

 
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Its easy to do/spend money for a swap. But I think it's much more sweeter having that old lil SOHC tuned under your hood. You dont see too many of SOHC tuned. Easy way out is ..get a DOHC and tune it. There is much more pride involved when your SOHC is pushing out 300-350 at the wheels. To me that is more worth then any freakin swap.
And another thing, people take a look at turbo and say "damn so much money and thats all the power I get, only 50-60hp". Well HELLOOOO that is on STOCK BOOST !!! I think people should learn this once and for all. Dont say turbo sucks bcs its only "giving" you 50 hp. That baby is capable of giving you hell of lot more, of course with build internals which are capable of witstanding that boost. Turbo might come set on regular boost 5-6 psi which any engine can deal with it nicely, and it is meant for everyday driving. You build your internals, you boost it up. Repeat the procces everytime you put something in (internal engine work wise) So please, dont say turbo sucks. Inform yourself well before you make any final judgments.
For 10g's you can have bad *** all turbo-motor SOHC. Everything is available except the cam but that will come out soon. Built SOHC will spank that K20 that everybody is talking about like its allmighty RB26. C'mon, get real. Again, just my 02.

 
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you guys know what i thought, i thought i was just going to dump the car because the swap was going to cost to much.. its 3500 max with hookups on labor aka friends...

 
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The engine swap / turbo decision is actually my dilema. I think an engine swap would be cool, but it just seems unnatural. Would be a lot cooler to just build up the stock engine. It's weird though. I just don't know what I want to do. Sometimes I think that the ultimate thing to do would be to buy the engine, rebuild it, then throw it in for the top notch performance, but then I start to thinking. It's just a Civic. Do I really want to dump tons of money into a rebuilt swap for a Civic? Don't get me wrong I love my Civic, but a hopped up swap just isn't natural. I do beleive she needs more power, preferably anything over 200 hp, but that can be accomplished without too much difficulty with the little 1.7 L. A Civic with over 200 HP is damn good for a Civic, that's sufficient to kill all the Neons, PT Cruisers, Escorts, Corollas, RSXs, Foci, 6 cyl Mustangs, Grand AMs, Cavaliers, Civic Sis, Preludes . .etc. . you can handle. Providing they aren't fixed up themselves. Get a shot of nitrous you are hanging with some of the big boys. So yeah. . that's my 2 pennies. Entirely up to the individual though..

 
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You are forgetting about alot of parts required for the swap that are not included in the ebay auctions (ie. front subframe, axles, lower suspension arms, rad, etc.) and then you need the HASPORT mounts, etc.
It is always better to start with a solid foundation and the K20A2 has amazing potential whether in the RSX type S or a Civic.
I know because I just bought one and it will be in Spring of 2004 with all the fixings
:-)

 
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No im not...thats why i am sayin that my swap is costing me close to 5 grand...my motor was $3800, and then i have about a grand to spend on other stuff. The subframe came with my motor, so did the axels from a 97 LS integra. Im keepin the 4 lug, so i dont need that other stuff.
Rad. $200
Mounts $550
Intake $150
Acura dealership ECU program..i dont know, but it shouldnt be too much for 10 min of work
Install is free

 
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Personally, I wouldn't mind building my D17. But I have an automatic. I wouldn't want to drive a 250+ hp automatic. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would love my car to be 250+ hp... but not in an automatic. I'm sure you guys know what I mean. So I figure since I want to change my automatic into a manual I might as well do a K20A2 swap... it'd be cheaper that way, right?

I would think it's what the owner would prefer... an engine swap (especially if the owner has an automatic )? Or build up that D17?

BTW, someone mentioned something about a K24 swap. Is that possible? I'm guessing it hasn't been done yet, but it sounds like it won't be too long until it comes true. And that's when HondaLuvers' sig comes into play: "Anything can be done with $$$(lots of it)..."

 
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Last time I checked we didn't have a member on here that had proof of this. If you're talking about Black99VTEC I'm just going to start laughing along with everyone on this site. As far as I know he has not accomplished this yet. If he has, where is the PROOF???

 
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Having an automatic isn't all that bad at all. And you can run the higher horsepower on an AT too. All you really have to do is get a "performace" torque convertor so the clutch plates don't start slipping on it. That's the only real problem you'll really need to worry about, other than getting a transmission cooler because that fluid is going to get hot.

Also, think about it this way - with an AT, you're pretty much running constant boost. You'll always be at WOT once you mash the peddle. With a MT, you have to take your foot off the gas and you loose all the boost pressure you just built up. Not such the case with AT. Main reason guys like MT is cause they like to hear the BOV pop between shifts. If you want a true sleeper, run an AT with turbo.

And yes, I have an AT and I am planning on getting a turbo sometime and I'll run it at 'safe levels' until the warranty is up and I rebuild the motor with better internals. There's nothing wrong with the D17, other then the ECU. That's what's really holding us back. Hopefully Hondata will come out with a flash for it or you could always go with the AEM EMS or some other piggyback ECU.

So, in the end, don't look at your AT being as big of a problem as you thought. You'll actually be better off.

Also, one thing to remember is that they found that the FI AT Supra was quicker than the FI MT Supra.

 
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its a direct swap. jsut buy the 800 dollar motor mounts from HA sport, search for a K20A2 engine and put it in yourself. hookups will save you shitloads of money.

 
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unless you plan on seriously racing the civic which i'm sure most of you don't considering the civic is probubly your daily driver- i wouldn't rebuild the D17 and go turbo because it won't last very long driving to pick up groceries and goin to work. i'd just swap the type S engine in and not worry about replacing parts which will wear and tear very quickly on a D series beast. either way its 5,000-10,000 down the toilet.

 
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Auto's suck for everything except for drag racing, I personally find very little enjoyment in "mashing the throttle", I like roads that don't go straight...

Either way, swapping or building the D17 you're going to be in for more money than the HP is worth, so it really is just a novilty thing. I personally love my car. If I had enough money I'd have 2 civics, 1 with a Turbo'd k20 , and the other with a NA Tune D17. If I had WAY to much money, I'd find a way to put a S2000 engine in that baby, though the K24 looks promising.

 
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hahaha, auto's have clutch BANDS first off, and second, you need to get some knowledge here...


the engine flywheel gets connected to the torque converter, the TC's job is to translate torque via fluid movement to the transmission...

inside the TC, there is a propeller connected to the engine pushing fluid past an impeller connected to the tranny.

a "performance" TC gives you one (or two) of 4 advantages

1. higher or lower lock speed (the speed at which the torque transfer ratio is 1:1) ((this is important if you change the power curve))

2. you can step up to a "non-locking" TC (mostly for drag-trubo apps... this is something a civic will never need... but if you had a grand national putting out 1000+ hp....)

3. less rotational weight

4. different stall speed, the speed at which the TC starts doing things, at idle 1st gear clutch is engaged but the TC is "stalling" or IOW NOT transferring torque

 
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the K24 if in'm not mistaken is the CRV engine. if i'm right then there won't be too many quality performance parts made for it.

 
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Plates. Bands. WTF ever. I used it as a "reference point" to convey a point. That point is that you'd still need to get a better torque convertor to actually handle all the extra boost that you're going to be putting behind it to actually convert the power to the wheels to get it to the street. If you do not do this, the BANDS cannot withstand the extra torque put on them and will start to slip. This is the same principal as replacing the clutch plate on a 5 speed.