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So I'm half way through this engine build, and today I went to Crower website to order a stage 1 cam and found out that they have been discontinued. They say they can regrind my existing cam but they can't give me numbers of what they will be able to do with it until they get mine in their hands to measure it.
-So my question today, is who else besides Crower still makes a stage 1 cam for a D17a, D17a2?
-How does this forum feel about regrinding cams?
-If I can not find one anywhere, does anyone know of a used or new one anywhere that is for sale? Summit still has it on their site, but I'm not sure they have them in stock.
thanks.
So I'm half way through this engine build, and today I went to Crower website to order a stage 1 cam and found out that they have been discontinued. They say they can regrind my existing cam but they can't give me numbers of what they will be able to do with it until they get mine in their hands to measure it.
-So my question today, is who else besides Crower still makes a stage 1 cam for a D17a, D17a2? -How does this forum feel about regrinding cams?
-If I can not find one anywhere, does anyone know of a used or new one anywhere that is for sale? Summit still has it on their site, but I'm not sure they have them in stock.
thanks.
i personally have never liked the regrind idea because there's too much room for error. it's easier to keep the geometry right without having to make up .020 or .040 or whatever ends up being removed. i have a friend that is much smarter than myself and he loves regrinds. has been developing cams for eons and has crower regrind oem cams to his specs all the time. recently (about a year ago) he had one regrind for a mopar 2.4 where the base circle was cut too small and the lash adjusters could not extend far enough to have proper lash. only in one case though, all the other cams cut and sold with the same specs were fine. he ended up getting bad mouthed, had people blaming the cam he designed, etc, because the guy at the grinder made a simple mistake and took too much off the base to safely hit his specs. this is likely why they want to see and measure your cam first. i would call crower and see how confident they feel about regrinding it.
this is the actual regrind in question, and below it stock cams. you can see how much smaller the base circle becomes. if they need to grind it too small to get it where you want it.... well they'll know better than us how far they can cut without making the valvetrain geometry fubar.
^^ mopar 2.4/turbo PT
So with a regrind, I'm guessing all the material is taken from the back side of the lobe. Do you think the same lift and duration can be achieved? Also if I have to get a custome grind, would it be better to change the values and get a cam someplace between the stage 1 and 2? I want to keep the stock valve springs and retainers for now, because I think they have discontinued them as well. Are valve springs and retainers for other D series engines compatable with the D17A2?
So with a regrind, I'm guessing all the material is taken from the back side of the lobe.
they will grind the minimum amount necessary off the lobes before regrinding just to clean things up, and may grind off the tip of the lobe if the new profile has lobes shaped more like the butt of an egg vs the tip of the egg, as it's the only way really add duration without getting nuts with lift.
Thanks for the info, I’m going to send in the cam to crower and see what they can do. It’s $180 for a regrid, that’s about half of the cost of a new one.
Wait, you can send in the stock cam and they will make the stage 1,2,or 3 cam???
Darn. I wish I knew that before I spent $400 on a stage 1 cam. I thought by “regrind”, they just meant polishing the lobes smooth again if they were scored. I didn’t think that they could add material.
they do not add material, they remove it from the sides and bottom, which makes the base smaller and the lobes act taller/wider/etc.
depending how much is removed, you can run into unforeseen issues: lash adjusters no longer centered on the valve stem causing valve guides to wear or valve tips to mushroom, rollers lower causing the pressure to exert more sideways than vertical, etc.. which is why they will always want the cam in hand to measure before deciding if there's enough meat on it to do what you want.
pic is just a BS pic i made where the center was made smaller so you can see how i illustrated it making the lobe 1/3 taller
Darn. I wish I knew that before I spent $400 on a stage 1 cam. I thought by “regrind”, they just meant polishing the lobes smooth again if they were scored. I didn’t think that they could add material.
They can’t add material, from my conversation with them, they can make the back and sides of the lobe a bit smaller, after the lifter is adjusted to take up the difference, it will act like a larger lobe. They have no information to give me on how much they can change it, they will have to measure it first and get back to me with the values that they can get. Things like ramp angle lift and duration will be as good as they can get, they can’t guarantee a stage one or two profile. It may only end up not even a stage one. I’ll keep people posted with the values they come up with.
They can’t add material, from my conversation with them, they can make the back and sides of the lobe a bit smaller, after the lifter is adjusted to take up the difference, it will act like a larger lobe. They have no information to give me on how much they can change it, they will have to measure it first and get back to me with the values that they can get. Things like ramp angle lift and duration will be as good as they can get, they can’t guarantee a stage one or two profile. It may only end up not even a stage one. I’ll keep people posted with the values they come up with.
So I finally got the numbers back from Crower. They can regrind a stock d17a2 cam. The OEM numbers are 183 degrees intake and 171 degrees exhaust with .199 and .163 of lift respectively. The maximum numbers they can get me are .188 degrees intake and .180 degrees exhaust, with .213 and .175" of lift.
For comparison the stage one cam they used to offer was 188 degrees intake and 180 exhaust with a .217 and .190 lift with 188 and 180 degrees of duration. The turbo cam had .237 intake lift and .218 exhaust lift with 193 and 183 degrees of duration. The turbo cam requires the spring and retainer kit they sell.
Anyone have a opinion on those numbers?
Last edited by glamabilly; Aug 22, 2018 at 12:38 PM.
If you want to retain your stock setup, i would go with the stage 1 grind.
If you decide to go bigger than the stage 1 specs, you better have some sort of programmable ECU.
I personally thru in a stage 1 this spring and went ahead and upgraded the springs and retainers, because i knew i would be going with a bigger cam in the near future.
I'm curious if i can get a stage 3 grind from the stage 1 cam????
..
The max numbers they can get are 188 degrees intake and 180 degrees exhaust, with .213 and .175" of lift.
For comparison the stage one was 188 degrees intake and 180 degrees exhaust with a .217 and .190 lift
Anyone have a opinion on those numbers?
instead of losing shipping money you might have them cut it, try it. the stage 1 duration is there, you may love it.
if you decide if you want something bigger, you'll at least have something worth some $$ to sell. i imagine in an ad that would be found by someone seeking a stage 1, your cam would resell pretty quickly and would cover anything you spend on the shipping, grinding, vc gasket, etc
i never realized how tiny honda cams are. mine's In:222 / Ex:230 with .512/.512 lift, which is on the small side for a v8.
I have a Crower stage 1 cam in my "power house" now.
All this talk of regrinds got me wondering if Crower can get the stage 3 grind from their own stage 1....
I plan on calling them in the future to find out.
a bit off topic, but does anyone have a d16 cam laying around that they would be interested in giving away minus shipping?
i'm curious how different the cams are.
This build is taking me a while, I’m not sure how long it will take now that they have the numbers, but I hope to get it back soon. I’ll post something on this thread when I get it in the car. Having said all of that, it does look like you could just go to a junkyard, get a cam for almost nothing send it in to have a regrind, all for almost half of what the stage 1 cam would be, and it is only off by just a few thousands of an inch. This is really just an experiment for me, if I get some good results, it is going in my rally car. Just a few hp extra might make all the difference over a rally stage, and if it looks OEM maybe no one will notice.
