Wankenstein

'95 EX Coupe
I left my car's lights on yesterday at work and battery was drained. Got a jump start and it started after a few minutes of charging. A month ago my son left the lights on and drained the battery. The battery is around a year old (Interstate brand 3 year warranty) and has never failed to start other than after lights left on. Anyway, after the battery was jumped yesterday I drove it on the highway for about 40 minutes on my return from work. After I returned home I shut the engine off, then I cranked it and it started right away so I figured it's charged. This morning (before work) all lights came on but starter didn't engage at all. When I returned home I jumped the battery again with my wife's car and it started right away. I also checked all the cells and they are full. Could draining the battery twice in a month's time damage the battery enough to where it won't hold a charge?

I removed the battery and plan to trickle charge the battery tonight..how long should I charge it for? The battery charger I'm using is an older Craftsman with a single amp meter ..it has only a 6/12 volt selection. I'm not sure if it's a high or low amp charger though my guess is that it's a low amp one.

As a side note the flat metal bar (aftermarket) that holds the battery down had a good sized dry acid build-up on it. However, there was no acid buildup on the battery posts. Also, most of my driving is less than five miles each way to my primary job. Second job is a 40 minute drive but that's just every other Saturday.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

It could. After it sits a while what is the voltage?

I would leave it over night. Its only going to take so much charge.

Wankenstein

Thanks GolNat, I'll have to check the voltage later today before I charge it. I also had in mind an overnight charge.

Colin42

Batteries don't last nearly as long as they used to. Try charging it overnightbut I would guess it's toast. With the car running what is the voltage?

ezone

Leave battery charged up but disconnected. See if it drains itself after a couple days.
Measure vehicle drain with an ammeter to prove the car has a problem.

Wankenstein

Charged battery overnight and barely started the car this morning before work. Got to work, shut off engine , tried to restart and starter barely turning. So, pretty sure battery is shot. I called Interstate Battery and they said they will test it at their local store near me and if it doesn't hold a charge they will take 45% off the price since I don't have the receipt (previous owner has receipt...purchased through the company he works for). Turns out it it's warranted for five years instead of three.

Wankenstein

There may be a slow parasitic drain going on. I am work now and will provide more info within the next few days

ezone

So if you connect jumper cables to your battery post cable clamps and it cranks GREAT that pretty much proves it's a battery problem-----unless you've got poor contact/corrosion between battery post and cable clamp.

Wankenstein

Yes. Cranks right up when jumped.
No corrosion on cables or posts but oddly enough a good amount of corrosion buildup on the metal bar that holds the battery down which rests between the two cells covers.

Here's what's somewhat concerning to me though. This is one of my previous threads concerning the push button starter issue I am still having https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...ank-issue.html
It seems like whenever I jump the battery it starts right up on the first try using the push button. Yet, when the current battery was in working condition it might start on the first attempt but usually takes several attemps. My thought is maybe there's a very slow parasitic drain that never allows the battery to crank at optimum and causes several push button starting attempts?

ezone

Voltmeter. Test for voltage drop on the sol circuit through the pushbutton?

If there is a significant drop through the pushbutton switch contacts and the starter solenoid only receives maybe 9v instead of 12, how well do you think that's gonna work?
Loose terminals anywhere?

Wankenstein

Will test for voltage drop this Wednesday. No loose connections.
Actually, the push button used to start up on first try everytime until I tightened loose connections on starter solenoid months ago (just prior to the date of that linked thread). If I recall when I loosened one of the nuts (positive terminal IIRC) on the starter's solenoid the nut and threaded stud moved instead of just the nut..
I screwed the threaded stud in as snug as possible and used a lock washer for the nut. It hasn't backed out and is still tight but it seems like it effected contact inside the solenoid.

Wankenstein

I am going to install headlights alarm like this:

Wankenstein

The plot thickens: brought in battery into local Interstate Battery store. They tested it and one cell is bad. Date sticker on battery states 2/17 however, the stamped date on plastic battery case states March 2015. The store warrants the stamped date only. What had happened was: the guy who sold me the car works at a marine supply store, his company ordered in the battery in February 2017 (a week after I purchased the car). So, my thinking is they (marine store) kept the new battery, gave me a used battery they had lying around (from 2015) and transferred the new sticker to the old battery. Quite the dick-move. Anyway, Interstate couldn't give me 45% off but they did give me 25% off..the battery ended up being $100 after discount. It's a 5 year pro-rated and if dies within the first two years it's a free exchange.

I didn't get time to check push button voltage drop. I've started the engine four times already since installing the battery and it started up on the first push of the button each time. I drive short distances to and from work and don't drive much when I'm off so, I plan to do a trickle charge maintenance every few months. I still intend to check for button voltage drop soon. I ordered the lights alarm on Ebay $2.50 for two..lol

ezone

If dead cell and replacement battery got it all working normally idk if I would mess with it much more.

Wankenstein

The starting issues went on for months... was it most likely due from a battery that had a weak (and then finally dead) cell? It started on first button push again tonight.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Discharging the battery twice probably killed the cell. If its not a deep cycle battery they can't discharge like that. It is possible to "repair" the damaged cell by cramming high amperage into it. I used to work for a defense contractor that made battery units for the military. We used an AGM type battery and I had a water cooled "load bank" that could force 200 amps into a set of batteries (28v system). It was only a temporary fix but it helped break down the build up on the plates that caused the short.

Wankenstein

Okay. Thanks.
The lights alarm should arrive within a week. I was going to bring an upcoming CV axle replacement to a mechanic but now I will do it myself to offset the $100 beans the battery cost.

ezone

Not that it matters now, the car is fixed....but I want to nit pick this:
Exactly what test was done to prove an individual cell had a problem? (dead cell statement)

The handheld electronic gizmotron cannot tell for certain....Our handheld tester (Midtronics unit made or programmed for honda) used to say that for every battery that failed because that was the only answer that was programmed into it.

AFAIK the only way to prove it is measure the specific gravity of the electrolyte in all 6 cells and compare.
A refractometer is most accurate of course, but in the case of a somewhat charged car battery with a dead cell the floating ball style tester is usually good enough.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

ezone

Nice.

Does the same apply to a standard lead-acid battery? (it's surely similar)

I know when carbon pile load testing a battery with a weak cell --- voltage drops like a rock--- and could recognize it right away, but still needed to confirm specific gravity difference before declaring a problem within a specific cell.
.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Wankenstein

They did a floating ball chemical test. It wasn't holding a charge as I charged it up for 12 hours the night before and it could barely move the starter the day after.

Wankenstein

Headlights alarm installed, new rear deck speakers installed, starter working on first try every time now. Ordered right front CV axle from rock auto: SurTrack brand $43. I used Surtrack once before on a previous 6th gen and it lasted 35k miles until I sold the car.

Tempted to do the following to the existing one and keep as a spare. I have a couple old D-series axles with good boots on the I can remove and use. First I will shave my beard down to the jazzy style goatee-mini beard dude in video has so I can do a right-proper job on me axle..too-right, mate:

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Wankenstein

Me starter has gone back to it's ways of taking several attempts before finally starting. All grounds, terminals clean and connections are tight. Started on first attempt for first two weeks with new battery replacement but since then ( over a month ago) takes it usually takes several attempts until it starts the engine.

I (Dick) trickle charged it for six hours a couple weeks ago and for three days only it started on first attempt. I think I will test as Ezone prescribed: "Voltmeter. Test for voltage drop on the sol circuit through the pushbutton? If there is a significant drop through the pushbutton switch contacts and the starter solenoid only receives maybe 9v instead of 12, how well do you think that's gonna work?"

bowdown

if the cells are dead cant be charged need to replace it for good