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Old 6 Days Ago   #61
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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O2 sensor should be constantly fluctuating somewhere between 0 and 1 volt.
Okay.

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New question: If you hold RPM at .....steady 2500, what does the fuel trim # do?
ST o2 correction (%): between 28.9 and 33.6
LT o2 correction (%): between 6.2 and 4.7

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Same smoke check for vacuum leaks from the intake area
Okay

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Capped so the engine has no vacuum leaks?
There's a a rubber cap on a vacuum inlet on the TB where evap purge looks to connect to.

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Grab a can of carb/throttle spray.
Disconnect battery, disconnect O2 sensor.Reconnect battery, start engine, let it run til its warm. Spritz cleaner into throttle body, see if RPM picks up and engine runs smoother.
Spritzed in TB cleaner and rpm's raised and idle smoothed for a few seconds. Tried it a few times and each time the same result.

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What's the chance this engine is trying to run on the injectors from a 1.5 engine instead of this 2.0?
Not sure. Are you thinking that if that's the case than less fuel might be injected than needed for a 240cc injector?

I pulled the TB to inspect idle screw passage and it looked clear. I do regret putting RTV silicone on the TB gasket though, as it took longer to scrape off. If any of the RTV got into the intake and cylinder would it possibly cause damage? I put a very light coating on it but when compressed from tightning it may have squeezed inward towards the bore.
Car ran fine for weeks afterwards until this current issue. Currently running well except at idle. I'm purchasing a new TB gasket tomorrow.
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Old 6 Days Ago   #62
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Quote:
Spritzed in TB cleaner and rpm's raised and idle smoothed for a few seconds. Tried it a few times and each time the same result.
Seems to confirm the engine is running too lean.

Same check at 2500 RPM, does it still make it run better?
Quote:
ST o2 correction (%): between 28.9 and 33.6
LT o2 correction (%): between 6.2 and 4.7
These numbers at 2500 RPM support the above.


I'm also curious about a wide open throttle test run up to redline through first and second gears (Maximum fuel demand), watching the O2 sensor voltage the entire time.....does it peg at .9v or .1v?

Quote:
Not sure. Are you thinking that if that's the case than less fuel might be injected than needed for a 240cc injector?
I was thinking the injectors for a 1.5 engine are too small to run a 2.0 correctly, fuel trims would always end up very high as the computer continually tries to add fuel..
It was a thought.

At operating temperature, neutral, no electric loads....What is MAP value at idle, and again at 2500?
Is ECT looking accurate at operating temp?

Have you tried a known good ECM?
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Old 6 Days Ago   #63
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Trying to get those things done but now a new problem. I removed the TB yesterday evening when the engine was at operating temp to check and clean passage if needed. The RTV silicone I stupidly applied a couple months ago got on TB bolt threads..I got it off with wd-40 and brass brush. I have to wait for a day for an OEM gasket so I figured I'll try a felpro for $3. It matched up with the old OEM as far passages and bolt/stud holes but will not seal and I have at at proper torque spec.

Maybe the TB or intake mating surface warped because I removed the TB at operating temp or the because of the RTV I used. Maybe Felpro's gasket isn't working properly. I called felpro and they said check both surfaces with a straight edge and that a thicker gasket won't help. If the TB is warped it's not a real loss because it apparently has a sagging butterfly. The intake would need to milled if it's warped, correct?

I don't have a straight edge at my place (at mom's) but I used the smooth side edge (opposite of teeth side) of a 10" hacksaw blade to get a rough estimate and both looked very flat. I laid it crosswise, diagonal etc.. on several areas of both intake and TB mating surfaces. I plan to get my straight edge and feeler gauges to check it again. Just ordered an OEM TB gasket from local Honda dealer for however this plays out. I'm starting to believe that I am what's mostly wrong with my car

I attached some pics of TB and intake ..the only passage hole in the previous OEM and new felpro gasket is the upper left hand corner just below the stud. Not attaching for flatness inspection...lol
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Old 5 Days Ago   #64
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

I forgot to mention that the idle scew had RTV on it too and I cleaned it up as much as possible. May have prevented air from passing as I mentioned previously that adjusting the screw did not effect idle.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #65
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

I can't picture a gorilla warping a manifold there.

Might have lumps of old gasket still stuck on a surface somewhere causing a high spot?

Stick TB and manifold together WITHOUT a gasket and see if they mate up nice and flat with eachother.

I remember thinking the IAC counts didn't look out of line on the scanner so throttle body and IAB was probably set ok and flowing a sufficient amount.

If the engine was actually running correctly (without fuel trim and delivery problems) you could watch the scanner while adjusting the IAB screw, you might hear airflow change and you might be able to see the IAC value change as the computer compensates for what you are screwing.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #66
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Oh hey I see it looks like you've got a manual trans IAC on the manifold....Have you taken it off the manifold and scraped the carbon buildup off of the screen?
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Old 5 Days Ago   #67
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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I can't picture a gorilla warping a manifold there.

Might have lumps of old gasket still stuck on a surface somewhere causing a high spot?

Stick TB and manifold together WITHOUT a gasket and see if they mate up nice and flat with eachother.

I remember thinking the IAC counts didn't look out of line on the scanner so throttle body and IAB was probably set ok and flowing a sufficient amount.

If the engine was actually running correctly (without fuel trim and delivery problems) you could watch the scanner while adjusting the IAB screw, you might hear airflow change and you might be able to see the IAC value change as the computer compensates for what you are screwing.
I scraped both mating surfaces carefully with a razor blade and throttle body spray. I'll try without a gasket to see how they mate up.
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Old 5 Days Ago   #68
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Oh hey I see it looks like you've got a manual trans IAC on the manifold....Have you taken it off the manifold and scraped the carbon buildup off of the screen?
About four months ago I cleaned the IAC and screen with TB cleaner. I didin't scrape the screen but it looked clean. I added a bit of RTV on the IAC rubber gasket at that time out of laziness because I didn't want to wait for new gasket/screen. The rubber gasket is very flat and hard and I felt might be a source of leakage. No more RTV for me other than where service manual says to use it. I'll order a new IACV gasket.

There's several 60mm TB's in Florida listed on Car-Part.com some are shown in local salvage yards...if needed.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #69
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

When I get the TB straightened out (literally) I intend to do a DIY smoke test as shown below in vid. Reading up on lean idle the following possibilities are what we are trying to rule out?:

Vacuum leak
Exhaust leak
MAP sensor
o2 sensor
Cylinder misfire
Inadequate fuel delivery

Anything I'm missisng?

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Old 4 Days Ago   #70
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Quote:
Anything I'm missisng?
Alcohol content in the fuel?

See the scotty kilmer video where hes smoking a big stogie for a smoke test.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #71
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Alcohol content in the fuel?
See the scotty kilmer video where hes smoking a big stogie for a smoke test.
I did a cigar smoke test last week and I used a ziploc bag with an intake clamp over it to cover the TB opening. The only smoke I saw was coming from near the ziploc bag which is very near the TB gasket. At that point I had the old OEM + RTV combo TB gasket. Could have been the bag seal was leaking or could have been TB gasket..looked more like the ziploc seal though.

Thankfully, I used an Arturo Fuentes Meduro nubby cigar or i would have gagged myself to death with the backpressure. I didn't check for exhaust leak though ..only intake. The setup in the video will allow a steadier, thicker flow to check intake and exhaust.

Is there a procedure to test alchohol contenet in fuel?
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Old 4 Days Ago   #72
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

I removed the felpro Tb gasket and the TB and intake looked vey flat without noticeable space. I used a precision level and .002" feeler gauge measuring in every direction and both the TB and intake wouldn't allow the feeler gauge to slip under the level. On my way soon to pick up an OEM gasket from dealer.

If it seals I will get the other test finished you asked for. Smoke test will probably be another day.

Just got back from Honda and they ordered in an intake manifold gasket instead of a TB gasket..so, TB gasket will be here tomorrow. Parts guygave me: Genuine Honda Parts 36531-P1H-E01 Oxygen Sensor price $300. I'm thinking the Walmart $30 Denso# 234-4099 sensor may not be the fix. Unless, other things contributing to poor readings..in which case the old o2 sensor I removed may still be good or was never the right one in the first place..hence the intermittent, erratic, dropping idle this car has had since before I purchased it.

HondaPartsNow (the bestest) sells the same genuine sensor for $200: https://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuin...1-p1h-e01.html

Another site selling that sensor states this: "The 36531-P1H-E01 Heated Oxygen Sensor is interchangeable with part numbers 36531-P28-A02 & 36531-P28-A01 Heated Oxygen Sensor". Also states the part is manufactured in Japan and is direct fit for 92-95 Civic EX as well as Del Sol.

Updated: Doing more research it shows in the cross reference table (pdf) http://wiki.24subaru.ru/images/7/74/...rence_Rev1.pdf that the genuine OEM 36531-P1H-E01 is the same as Denso# 234-4099 and
NTK# 24542.
Now my head hurts.

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Old 3 Days Ago   #73
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

I think the O2 sensor is reporting as it should, or as it sees it.
The engine appears to be too lean on the scanner.....and you said adding carb spray made it run better.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #74
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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I think the O2 sensor is reporting as it should, or as it sees it. The engine appears to be too lean on the scanner.....and you said adding carb spray made it run better.
Okay. I may pull the injectors and spray them into a bucket to see what they are doing. I've read it can be detrimental to an engine to continue running lean so I will try to drive it as least as possible until issue is resolved.

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Old 3 Days Ago   #75
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Look up some DIY injector cleaning?

I wonder what a stock 2.0 CRV would show for IPW-ms at hot idle, and compare to yours.
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Old 3 Days Ago   #76
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Look up some DIY injector cleaning?
I've seen a few youtubes where people pull the injectors, use a 9v battery, inject seafoam or other cleaner.

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I wonder what a stock 2.0 CRV would show for IPW-ms at hot idle, and compare to yours.
Maybe you'll get one in the shop tomorrow.I am requesting one from guy in the video below and hopefully he'll reply:

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Old 1 Day Ago   #77
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Seems to confirm the engine is running too lean.
Same check at 2500 RPM, does it still make it run better? These numbers at 2500 RPM support the above.
OEM TB gasket solved the leak.
I found a tiny intake leak on PCV valve hose but still has lean issue.
At 2500 rpm TB spray drops rpms for a second and then seems to smooth engine a bit but, harder to tell compared to spraying it in at idle.

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I'm also curious about a wide open throttle test run up to redline through first and second gears (Maximum fuel demand), watching the O2 sensor voltage the entire time.....does it peg at .9v or .1v?
.9v

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At operating temperature, neutral, no electric loads....What is MAP value at idle, and again at 2500?
Idle: 4 psi
2500 rpms: 3 to 4 psi

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Is ECT looking accurate at operating temp?
Yes

Quote:
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Have you tried a known good ECM?
Not yet

Fuel pressure on scanner/app reads 38-42 psi at idle points. Fuel pressure dial gauge on top of fuel filter reads around 32 at idle then jumps up to 38 during initial acceleration (in neutral) to about 2000 to 3500 rpms and then shows lower psi (around 30-32) when rpms are between 2600 and 5500 rpms. At what point in the fuel delivery system does the scanner read psi?

Me wife is getting tired of me using her car yet, I'm worried about running lean.. Is it okay if I drive mine back and forth to work?: 4 miles each way, 4 times a week

The parts consultant at local dealer said if we can't get it resolved there's a 20 year dealer mechanic that has a lot of experience with Frankensharts like mine. So, if need be that's an option. I plan to pull injectors tomorrow to test spray. May do smoke test too if I can rig up a bucket like shown in the video I posted. If it passes those two test then it seems like it may be an ECU issue.

One thing I've noticed about this engine even while I was test driving it before purchase. It always has a smell in the engine bay like mild burnt or heated rubber (not belts related)...it's tough to describe other than that.

Doing some research it could be that the p75 ECU may need a tuning or may not be the optimal ECU for this setup..maybe it needs to be dyno'd, chipped and tuned?: http://hondaswap.com/threads/ecu-for-b20-vtec.514606/

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Old 1 Day Ago   #78
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Did sealing up the TB change how the O2 sensor acts, or does it still read [email protected]?

MAP is displayed in a value I'm not used to seeing. Can you switch it to display volts or inHg (vacuum)?
Does BARO display the same way?

Fuel pressure is supposed to change in relation to changes in manifold vacuum, so at idle there's 20" of vacuum applied to the pressure regulator, fuel psi is lower, then when TB is wide open the manifold vacuum goes to almost nothing, so fuel psi rises accordingly.
You can just pop the vacuum line off the regulator (at idle) and see the pressure change.
The factory provided no way for fuel pressure to be directly monitored though, so IDK where your scanner program is getting its value from, if it actually represents fuel pressure, or if it is calculated or inferred or based on a model.

Quote:
Quote:
time.....does it peg at .9v or .1v?
.9v
Good, sufficient fuel delivery is available, so that means the combination of fuel pressure/flow and injector sizing is adequate for maximum demand....now need to figure out why it looks so lean at idle/low ranges.
Quote:

Doing some research it could be that the p75 ECU may need a tuning or may not be the optimal ECU for this setup:
Great, you're finding stuff that seems to agree with where my thinking is headed.
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Old 1 Day Ago   #79
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Did sealing up the TB change how the O2 sensor acts, or does it still read [email protected]?
Unfortunately, no..still stalling and zero volts when idle rpms drop to 300 and lower.

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MAP is displayed in a value I'm not used to seeing. Can you switch it to display volts or inHg (vacuum)?
Checked but, PSI only.
This chart might help: http://injector-rehab.com/shop/mapsensor.html

This read shows me why (graph near bottom of page) you would like to see voltage: http://www.aa1car.com/library/map_sensors.htm

This read descibes a bit about MAP + PSI: https://www.yourmechanic.com/article...sor-map-sensor

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Does BARO display the same way?
Same..PSI only

Quote:
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Good, sufficient fuel delivery is available, so that means the combination of fuel pressure/flow and injector sizing is adequate for maximum demand....now need to figure out why it looks so lean at idle/low ranges. Great, you're finding stuff that seems to agree with where my thinking is headed.
This linked forum below has a lot of Honda swap/tuner enthusiast so I will post there concerning which ECU/Engine combination is best. Many dyno shops in the Tampa bay area too. Link:https://www.tamparacing.com/forums/index.php

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Old 23 Hours Ago   #80
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Quote:
Checked but, PSI only.
I've become so accustomed to reading this in volts, it's difficult to remember 6 or more other ways other manufacturers or scanners may interpret it. (I can change how it's displayed on my scanner, but usually stick to volts) 15+ years ago I was far more familiar with various others because I dealt with them regularly, and could convert in my head without a lot of stress.

MAP @idle engine at operating temp, park or neutral, with no additional loads: 0.80v-0.95v, is expected.

Hondas used speed density, and MAP is the major player in determining engine load, thus determining the base fuel quantity calculation.
(If the engine uses a MAF sensor it's not speed density)
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Old 22 Hours Ago   #81
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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MAP @idle engine at operating temp, park or neutral, with no additional loads: 0.80v-0.95v, is expected. Hondas used speed density, and MAP is the major player in determining engine load, thus determining the base fuel quantity calculation. (If the engine uses a MAF sensor it's not speed density)
Want me to test it with a voltmeter? I could pick one up at a junkyard for $5 .. not into throwing parts at it but, I can swing five beans without a setback if it doesn't help.
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Old 21 Hours Ago   #82
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

Backprobe it with a voltmeter is good enough...
Also check the other two wires on that sensor for a good ground and 5 volts. If either is off that would skew the output signal.

Got a vacuum gauge handy? Confirm you have 18-20" of manifold vacuum at idle. Just for giggles. I think you will unless the valves are too tight.
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Old 19 Hours Ago   #83
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Backprobe it with a voltmeter is good enough...
Also check the other two wires on that sensor for a good ground and 5 volts. If either is off that would skew the output signal.
Okay

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Got a vacuum gauge handy? Confirm you have 18-20" of manifold vacuum at idle. Just for giggles. I think you will unless the valves are too tight.
I do have one but may have left in my son's car (my old '97 EX) which is in St. Louis until mid August.
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Old 5 Hours Ago   #84
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

I should have asked this sooner: is this just a lean condition at idle or under throttle as well?
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Old 4 Hours Ago   #85
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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I should have asked this sooner: is this just a lean condition at idle or under throttle as well?
You said the O2 sensor voltage hits .9v during acceleration, so it appears it is not lean during that condition.

From what I saw it looked lean at steady throttle and no load, but had some changes as you were raising rpm in the videos. I can't tell what it would be doing while you drive though, you can watch that.

If you watch the O2 sensor response as you drive, you can see when AFR goes richer than 14.7:1 (stoichiometric) when the sensor shows higher than 0.45v.


Whenever the sensor reads greater than 0.45v, the AFR mixture sensed is richer than 14.7:1.

Whenever the sensor reads less than 0.45v, the AFR mixture sensed is leaner than 14.7:1.

The O2 sensor "switches" its output voltage high or low as it senses the air/fuel ratio crossing the 14.7:1 threshold....the ECM continually adds and subtracts fuel injection quantity (displayed as the fuel trim values) as it attempts to keep the sensor voltage switching back and forth rapidly, this keeps the average air/fuel ratio (near) 14.7:1. (closed loop feedback)

In your case (at idle and no load?) the ecm can't add enough fuel (fuel trim) to get the sensor to switch away from low voltage state (near 0v). I have been thinking this is because the base fuel table isn't suited for the engine it's hooked to, and have been trying to rule out other possible causes.

The ECM takes MAP, ECT, RPM, TPS, IAT and calculates how much fuel to inject based on a predetermined table (fuel map) then the O2 sensors allow the ECM to make minor fuel corrections (closed loop feedback) to keep mixture as close to 14.7:1 as possible during most low load and driving conditions.

Wide open throttle (max power) demands a fuel mixture much richer, more like 12.8:1 (actual might be 12.5-13.3, :1), and that can't be monitored by a plain O2 sensor, but the sensor shows high voltage when mixture is rich.
The ECM does not attempt to make minor fuel corrections during high loads, and ignores the O2 sensor (open loop, relying on the rpm/load/temp sensors and the fuel table to calculate fuel injection quantity)


/still no coffee
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Old 1 Minute Ago   #86
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Re: Oil Pressure Light On

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Originally Posted by ezone View Post
You said the O2 sensor voltage hits .9v during acceleration, so it appears it is not lean during that condition.

From what I saw it looked lean at steady throttle and no load, but had some changes as you were raising rpm in the videos. I can't tell what it would be doing while you drive though, you can watch that. If you watch the O2 sensor response as you drive, you can see when AFR goes richer than 14.7:1 (stoichiometric) when the sensor shows higher than 0.45v.
Okay..will monitor. So far no stalling at idle with a/c on. Other than poor idle the engine seems smoother than ever while driving.

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Originally Posted by ezone View Post
In your case (at idle and no load?) the ecm can't add enough fuel (fuel trim) to get the sensor to switch away from low voltage state (near 0v). I have been thinking this is because the base fuel table isn't suited for the engine it's hooked to, and have been trying to rule out other possible causes.

The ECM takes MAP, ECT, RPM, TPS, IAT and calculates how much fuel to inject based on a predetermined table (fuel map) then the O2 sensors allow the ECM to make minor fuel corrections (closed loop feedback) to keep mixture as close to 14.7:1 as possible during most low load and driving conditions.
I will call a few dyno shops tomorrow and see what they recommend for which ECU and need for tuning. ECU is presently a P75..here's related info:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/hybrid...u-b20-2534866/ and Google hits: https://www.google.com/search?num=50...k1.ky1r14wnU8I
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