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Hello,

I just replaced my timing belt, 1991 Honda civic hatchback Canadian car with a 1.5 l engine.
My question concern the correct position of the crankshaft pulley as there seems to be contradicting information between the sheet with the timing belt and my Honda manual. I can not seem to find any index marks on the block or lower crank sprocket, just the crank pulley. 3 timing marks and the TDC mark. My manual says to line the "timing markS" with the sight on the lower belt cover but it looks like they use the lone TDC mark on the belt instructions.
Which one should be used. When I used the TDC mark the woodrift key is not at the top and my ignition timing was way off when I checked it after doing the belt. I am considering redoing this job because I just feel something is amiss here.
Thanks

 
Rep Power: 518

Was the key just slightly off from straight up, or was it waaaay off? If it was waaay off then the outer ring of the crank pulley has probably slipped ---if this is the case then that crank pulley is dangerous and needs replaced.
(If it has slipped, you can probably pull the outer ring off or move it by hand.)


At TDC that crank keyway should be straight up toward the head. You could double check this is really TDC by sticking a long screwdriver in the #1 sparkplug hole and make sure the piston is at the top. Rock the crank SLIGHTLY back and forth to make sure the piston is really up as high as it will go, that's TDC.

 
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Thanks for the reply,
I am going to get the coveralls on and head back to my garage.
The pulley is sound. When I slip the lower cover on first and then the
pulley... when I align it to the white TDC mark on the pulley it puts the notch about 30 degrees left. My Honda manual says to align the lower cover sights to the TIMING MARKS which would probably bring the notch back to the top....
I was also curious about the 2 different sets of marks on the cam pulley. Up is up of course. I had the lower angled mark aligned with the pointer on the cover and the side marks were close to the head. Are they same or is there a difference in position? If the cam sprocket says UP does that ensure I am
on the compression stroke? I will pull the plug on # 1 this time and put something in there to confirm its at the top. Also saw a video about the
the lower grommet on the front left of the engine and the notched scale inside. I haven't looked at that yet and don't know how accessible it is.
Thanks

 
Rep Power: 518

Huh? What notch? (Remember, I can't see what you are talking about here. I haven't actually seen one of these in about a decade LOL)


I'm using USA info here, I don't think Canadian is any different other than the trim designations......

Is this a 1.5 or a 1.6 Liter engine?

Cam marks, 1.5L:


1.6L:





I think this should be like what you have, it looks pretty close to my info:


Verify TDC marks using the screwdriver on top of the piston method (highest point), I believe you SHOULD find the keyway will be pointing straight up at that time. I don't recall ever seeing one point any other direction at TDC.





If you mean timing marks on the flywheel, I don't think these have it.

HTH

 
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well, i just pulled the plugs, top cover and verified TDC on the cam gear with a plastic rod from the bottom of a coat hanger. it goes up and down twice per 1 can sprocket rotation and only shows UP once. very very little difference between the 2 side marks vrs the the mark and pointer at the 8 o'clock position. When i get to that spot, the lower cover marks align perfectly with the TDC mark as I set it and as per your diagram. However, my Haynes manual states it should line up with the "timing markS"
and if I decide to take the bolt off again i expect to find that key slot about 30 degrees off center to the left??? So which one is correct? Incidentally.. I saw my engine was not listed in the belt info but it's exactly the same as my old one. Engine D15B1

 
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about that grommet...
it was shown in this video but I didn't see any grommet there on my engine.

 
Rep Power: 518

There are multiple marks on the crank pulley. Only one is TDC. The rest are for ignition timing.

D15 cam gear marks, you should use the 2 marks lined up with the flat surface of the cylinder head.


Is that pointing directly at the cam? The engine leans, it is not standing perfectly straight up....Right?

 
Rep Power: 518

That's not a Civic.

The use of a straw is a good idea

 
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I have the same basic marks I am familiar with... the group of three plus the stand alone white TDC mark. Mine is set exactly as your picture. my uncertainty is because the Haynes manual says it should line up with the TIMING MARKS plural and I believe the notch is still about 30 degrees left. I will have to chain it up again to remove the bolt but ???? is it good now or should I change it to align with the timing marks and notch up. I think that's how it was before and why I had to make such a big change in my ignition timing.
Thanks

 
Rep Power: 518

Petty sure that would mean to use the TDC mark for the bottom, and the 2 cam marks at the top.

Ignore all the rest of the marks on the both pulleys for setting up the timing belt.



If you have the timing belt off by a tooth, the ignition (distributor) timing should be off by something like 20 degrees or more.

The distributor should never ever need to be adjusted unless it was removed.
An instructor once said something like "The distributor has multiple bolts securing it to the head, that means you need to really think more than once before trying to adjust it."
Meaning: If ignition timing is waaay off, the cam timing must be off.




When you say "notch", do you mean the crankshaft pulley keyway?
Did you verify the #1 piston is really at the absolute top when the crank pulley TDC mark is lined up?

 
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yes, I didn't even look at the lower pulley until I was sure the plastic rod was at the highest point and the cam sprocket was UP and with good lateral alignment. Then I checked below and it was exactly lined up through the sights to the white TDC mark.
When is say notch, I mean the slot for the key. I am pretty sure when I removed it,
I lined up the top cam sprocket and when the pulley came off it was with the notch at the top. So I believe this change was the reason for a big ignition timing change. So again, I feel like I have the same dilemma, Go with as is and the new timing or take the belt off again and go to a notch up >> and that will likely align the lower belt cover sights with the timing marks as per the Haynes manual and probably require me to change the ignition timing back again..

 
Rep Power: 518

That part sounds perfect, leave it alone LOL.


Don't overthink this.

When you run it it should have good throttle response again.

 
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You'll have to put the distributor back where it started.
Remember, the dist should NEVER need to be moved.
You have to make several mistakes before you can move it.

 
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well if that's the case, it has been in the wrong position for years.....and years
Damn I wish I felt more confident about it. Almost every DIY write up and video
seem to show the keyway at the top... and the fact Haynes manual didn't just say to align the sights to the "white TDC mark" ....arrrr
Tnx

 
Rep Power: 518

You verified piston is at the very top when the white mark is lined up, that's all you need. Set the cam up and it should be good to go.

Yes, it could have been off a tooth ever since the last timing belt was done. Should have been down on power all that time.

 
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I had set the timing a couple of months ago with a jumped the service connector. But after the timing belt changed I checked again and it was no where near the 3 marks. That's why I am really quite sure it was oriented with the key slot up when I removed it and now it has been changed....
Set the cam up?

 
Rep Power: 518

I can watch valve action on #4 and see if overlap occurs during #1TDC, that can tell me a lot-- without being able to see any timing marks at all.

 
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well I also just adjusted the valves last week ...likely on the old cam/crank orientation so I if I decide to go with this now then I probably need to do the valves again too.
If I changed the distributer back to where it was the timing light would be nowhere near the timing marks on the pulley

 
Rep Power: 518

If the belt was only off a tooth the valves shoulda been close enough.
I think you'll find them still set ok.

 
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ok, well I'll check the valves again and close her up.
Hope I don't hear any big loud noises!!
Thanks..

ps. Stilllllll working on the same problem about the idle getting pulled down when
turning on accessories. Hoping to try an ecu swap some time in the future. lol

 
Rep Power: 518

Roll it over a few times by hand, make sure valves don't hit?That is very likely to go away once cam timing and ignition timing are correct again.