TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

So in a continuing effort to fix my starting issue I am looking at replacing the fuel pump.
Will probably get one from Rock Auto.
My question is the difference in the brands and pricing.
They have pumps ranging from $31 to $190.
Are there any recommendations on brands to go with and stay away from.
My options are:
Autobest: $31
Performance Electric: $32
Airtex: $68
Bosch: $70
Delphi: $90
Spectrum Premium: $104
Airtex: $110 (looks like the complete setup including the top mounting piece)
Denso: $118
Beck/Arnley: $165
AC Delco: $188
Carter: $190

I was thinking about the Denso or Airtex complete assembly, but wanted to see if anyone had recommendations first.

Thanks,
Brian

ezone

A fuel pressure gauge, and a test light.
Prove it is bad-- without firing the parts cannon.
But then, I make my living by diagnosing.
I might suspect a main relay long before a pump.
But I have no idea what symptoms your car has either.

A true pump failure is extremely rare, and you would be replacing a (most likely) perfectly good original pump with aftermarket junk.


If you insist on buying a pump, get OEM. Majestic has it for $168. http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...gry5=FUEL+TANK

HTH

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

I did test the fuel pressure. It's around 28. A little low. I am trying to solve a starting issue. The car takes a long time to crank and wants to stall once started. As I step on the accelerator, it starts to choke out, sputter, then after about 20 seconds it runs perfectly and will start fine until it cools down.
I have re-soldered the main relay, replaced the distributor, plugs, plug wires, ground wires, temp sensor, fuel filter, fuel pressure regulator, IACV, FICV, thermostat, head gasket, fuel injectors, and the map sensor. Running out of ideas. About the only thing left in the system is the fuel pump and the ECU.

94 DX hatch with about 110K miles.

ezone

What is the fuel pressure when you briefly clamp off the return line (deadhead the pump to read max possible pressure)?


Is your issue a real slow and unstable idle speed (i.e. no fast idle cold)?

Will it start and run ok if you use the gas pedal to control idle speed for the first 30 seconds?

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Today the pressure is running 31. When I clamp off just after the FPR the pressure jumps to 85+.

When starting I crank for about 5 seconds, release for about 2 seconds, then crank for about 3 seconds, release then crank a third time. (it never tries to fire the first two times) On the third time, sometimes it will catch and start to run. Other times it takes a couple more cranks to get it to stay running. One it starts, if I don't touch the accelerator, it will idle for about 8 to 10 seconds then die. If I press the accelerator, it will sputter, so I tap it a couple of times to control the sputter and keep it from dying, then it will do a light surge and run perfectly. If I shut it off and try to start again while still cold, it will struggle to start. If I let it idle for a couple of minutes, it will start fine.

ezone

Today the pressure is running 31. When I clamp off just after the FPR the pressure jumps to 85+.

Pump is fine.

You need a fuel pressure regulator--- the running pressure is too low.
Should be 40-47 according to the info I have.

#7 here:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...NTAKE+MANIFOLD

The rest of your description sounds like it is running extremely lean because of the low pressure.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Don't know that it matters but it is a new FPR and made no difference in the starting when I replaced it.
I have tried clamping the return line after the regulator and that didn't change the starting issues at all.

And I was looking at the FSM and it looks like it is 40-47psi with the vacuum hose disconnected and 31-38 with the hose connected. I fall into the very bottom of those readings if that helps.

ezone

Fuel pressure is still low with a new regulator?
New does not mean good.
New stands for Never Ever Worked.
(that 40-47 spec says without vacuum hose attached)
I'm thinking real world is around 36-44 in normal operation (with and without vacuum), but it had been a while since I checked a car that old.



Ok then, try to figure out if it is starving or flooding while it won't run.....

Earlier, you said this:
When starting I crank for about 5 seconds, release for about 2 seconds, then crank for about 3 seconds, release then crank a third time. (it never tries to fire the first two times)

Get to this point (engine still hasn't run on its own) and pull the spark plugs out, see if they are wet or dry.

If wet, what are they wet with? Gas? Coolant? ??



If the plugs are dry,

I would next try adding fuel: a spray can of carb and throttle cleaner, a short shot into the throttle body while someone is cranking it, see if it fires off with the extra fuel.

Then blip the throttle while adding a little extra fuel the same way. Run better or worse?


Or maybe none of this makes any difference, and you have a spark problem?
Codes?
CTS accurate?

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

The plugs were dry. The car fired up very quickly with starting fluid in the TB.

ezone

So it is lacking (starving for) fuel during the no start, for whatever reason.

What is the fuel pressure during the time that the engine won't start?

What does the coolant temperature read on a scantool datalist?
Oh, most people and places won't be able to get that data (it takes a special 3 pin adapter for a higher end scanner)..... Swap the CTS for the computer? (2 wire temp sensor, wire colors are red/white and green/white).. I read you tried this, but did you pick the correct sensor?

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Fuel pressure is 40 when I turn the key to on and fluctuates between 38 and 43 while trying to start.
I don't have the ability to get a CTS reading.
And the temp sensor I changed out had 2 wires

ezone

Ok, now fuel pressure sounds reasonable. You don't need a pump.

Did the temp sensor you changed have the wire colors I mentioned, or different wire colors?

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

The wires were red/white green/white and located under the distributor.

ezone

Well, it's starving for fuel while it won't run right.
I think the computer probably sees something that says it doesn't need nearly as much fuel as it really needs, but that is just a guess at this point.

Are the injectors getting pulsed as soon as the engine starts turning?

I would be at the point where I would have had a scanner on it, and possibly other test equipment, because I don't like to fire the parts cannon at a problem.
Since you don't have any way to read computer data, I suppose you are reduced to continued guessing unless you use a different approach.

At least the fuel pump is testing as good.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Injectors are firing immediately. Thanks for your assistance. I guess it's time to take it in and have it looked at. I have been fighting this for over a year, and am just getting tired of messing with it.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

Just an update. Got the car back from the mechanic today. After going through all the different levels of trouble shooting and checking sensors and fuel injection cleaning and valve adjustments and everything else, it was finally determined that the issue was a problem with the ECU. Replaced it with a used one and it fires right up.
Thanks for the help.

ezone

Good to hear a fix, thanks.
I guess I rarely get to see cars that old at the shop I work in, so that is not exactly a common failure for me to see. ECM is certainly not the first thing I think of, at any rate.