stslimited84

Hey all,

Recently picked up a 2000 Civic and am replacing the stereo system.

I'll be installing this head unit ----> Pioneer DEH9400BH

I'd like to put these speakers in. Will they work? also, has anybody custom mounted tweeters before? the 6501's have em but there are no factory locations for them. I think its pretty doable but just looking for input.

Front - Polk DB6501

Rear - Polk DB691

Amazon says they work in the rear but not in the front; however crutchfield says the fronts will work but the rears wont without some modification to the grill.

Can you guys/gals give me some insight?

Thanks in advance!

Weigel21

Nice choice on speakers and HU, good equipment from trustworthy manufacturers.

Crutchfield tends to be on spot with weather or not a speaker will be a direct fit or not. If they say the rear speakers won't fit without modification, it's likely true. I'd contact them for more details on the matter though. Chances are, the tweeter protrudes too far outwards for the factory grill to clear it, but you'd have to get them to confirm that.

As for the fronts, the woofer is likely a direct fit, but since the tweeter would need to be custom mounted, I'm betting Amazon said they don't fit. Did Crutchfield say they fit with modification? Honestly, due to the tweeters needing to be custom mounted, I'd figure they'd say it's a modified fit. Again, I'd contact them about it.

As for mounting tweeters, it's really not all that hard. I've mounted a set in the A pillars of a car once with little trouble. The inbstall looked fine, but I used a hole saw to cut a hole in the A pillar trim and then used super glue to hold them in place. Probably made for a royal pain to change them out when/if they failed, but I gt rid of the car before that ever happened.

One thing I'd like to say though, Polk speakers tend to be very power hungry, despite their high sensitivity rating. If you don't use an external amp of, I'd say at least 50RMS, then they aren't likely to perform to expectation. Powered off the 14RMS of the Pioneer will likely leave them sounding lifeless.

The last little bit I'd like to say, "fit" is a suggestive term. With enough time, creativity, and the proper tools, just about anything can "fit",

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

They should work.
I don't believe the EM1/EJ6/EJ8 were that much different from the EM2/ES2 in terms of interior speaker installs.

You might need a speaker bracket for the front's as the hole should be much smaller than the speaker.
The rear, I'm not so sure about.
Never torn apart an older civic.

stslimited84

Spoke with crutchfield on both issues. The fronts will fit, Ill just have to cut out a bigger hole as this speaker has a bigger magnet than stock...no biggie there. Rears will need slight modification to make the grill fit, again no biggie.

10-4 on the amp. I'm planning on using a 4 channel amp. I have an mmats sq 4070 from one of my other vehicles I'd love to use as it was an awesome amp. It puts out 70 watts rms per channel at 4 ohms. That being said its missing the 4 hole and 5 holec speaker plugs and I'm having trouble locating them. Any ideas on where to get them?

Thanks for the responses!

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

No need to cut
Use a bracket

Weigel21

Ebay comes to mind if you can't get them directly from the manufacturer.

Just did a quick search and found this. Looks to be the 4 pin plug, if that's of help. Might be able to find the 5 pin as well, but I'll let you do the finger work on that.

Best of luck getting that OS amp up and running again, I know MMATS makes some really nice amps and I bet that amp makes every bit of it's 70RMS@4. If I recall, MMATS rates their amps with a lower input voltage, as MTX has done for years. Given CEA standards, it probably puts out a bit more than 70RMS.

stslimited84

Yea i saw the listing you posted. The same seller also have a 5 pin which might work. Had an issue with a plug from ebay for this amp not fitting before so ill try mmats first and see what happens.

Was contemplating installing the amp myself although i havent done one before so im not sure whether i should do it or not.

Whats the bracket for the front polks you guys suggest?

Weigel21

Understood on eBay, I've been burned before as well.

As for the bracket, while I'm not the one whom suggested it, mostly due to not knowing much of anything specific to Civics, I figure Kenney is referring more towards a spacer to keep the speaker from sitting as deep into the door. However, due to no experience with Civics and not knowing exactly what he meant as well, I'll leave it to him to explain further.

As for installing the amp yourself, it's really not too hard. Just follow the basics and you should do well. I suggest reading up a little on BCAE.com, click on amplifiers in the directory for a few tips when installing and mounting an amp.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

The reason why I say brackets, is so that you don't tear into your car and later on sell your car and decide to keep your speakers, but can't install stock speakers back on because you've widened the hole.

And brackets, because the hole where the magnet of the speaker goes in, is small.
Not small enough where the magnet wont fit, but rather, the metal frame of the speaker wont fit.
Another reason, is because you have the 6501; not the 651s (Shallow mount coaxial) that I have.
The magnet will extend far into door panel, where your model of civic should be the same as mine, where the door has a metal support behind it, not allowing you to fit the whole magnet in.
If the magnet goes too far back, and is too large, you may have issues with your windows going down and hitting the magnet as well.

Words can be meaningless, here is a photo of my install.
See the support bar inside the door?


These are my 651s coaxials

Weigel21

Thank you Kenny, for further explaining and more so for the photos, they really make things simple, clear, and completely comprehensible. It seems I was correct in my understanding that the brackets you were speaking of are the same, more or less, as spacer rings/brackets.

Now as for his inquiry about amp installation, you got any pointer specific for Civics, or any pointers you feel should be said in general, just in case?

I mean, for instance, how is the chassis to battery grounding on those cars? I ask as poor grounding is often the issue with amps not functioning properly. Are they notable for any specific issues when installing a system or anything? What kind of power does the alternator produce on those cars? I know imports tend to have far smaller alternators than domestic cars, so if he's planning to run some power hungry amps it'd be wise to upgrade the Big 3 and possibly the alternator.

The heads up with the speakers was of great help and a key point I'm sure, so again, thank you.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

No problem.

Grounds on these civics are very poor.
I would highly recommend a big 3 upgrade.
One of our valued members sell these great high quality kits for $30 on our forums, if you'd like a kit, direct is Here.

Even if you install a big3 upgrade, I also highly suggest sanding down the chassis points to get the best connection possible.

I don't quite remember the output of the alternators, but I know its very low.
It's enough to run the car with maybe 15W~25W headroom.
I believe it's a 75W output alternator.

Weigel21

Good point, a clean bare (meaning all paint and residue removed) surface ensures the best connection for electricity/ground transfer. Paint is a good isolator, so get rid of it between surfaces of your connections.

Wow, 75AMP alternator?! I figured it might have been 95AMP or so, but that (75AMP altrnator) leaves little headroom for a system. In general the alternator will produce 40% more power than your car will need to operate, so in this case (75AMP alternator), there's a mere 30AMPS at your stereo systems disposal.

Now 30AMPS should be enough if all you plan is to run the MMATS, but if you decide to add some subs and another amp, I suspect you'll begin experiencing drastic headlight dimming and maybe even stalling of your car on peak bass hits if you like loud bass and have a stock electrical system.

Now this is merely speculation, but I know with my last car having a 105AMP alternator and and running a more power hungry system than what you currently have listed, I did experience headlight dimming quite regularly until I addressed it.

Just did a quick search and found you should have a 70AMP OEM alternator, so that gives you approx 28AMPS for your system.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

My bad, yes AMP.
A few drinks on Christmas eve, and night time posting does the head no good.

stslimited84

First and Foremost, Merry Christmas! I hope the holidays are treating you all well!

Thanks for all of the useful imformation.

1) What bracket is that in the pictures and where can i get them?

2) The link for the big 3 vendor is dead.

3) The alternator info is good to know. I have experience with dimming headlights. Had a monte carlor with the sq 4070 in it along with 2 12" mmats running off a d700.4. Serious dimming until I had a 2nd battery installed for the audio.

4) All the speakers are ordered. Still attempting to contact Mmats for the speaker plugs but i think they are closed for the holidays still.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Merry Christmas

1) What bracket is that in the pictures and where can i get them?
These are Metra brackets that I used, go to www.metraonline.com to look for your specific part number.
Then prowl ebay for one, or purchase directly from Metra.

2) The link for the big 3 vendor is dead.
I just checked, the link works fine.

3) The alternator info is good to know. I have experience with dimming headlights. Had a monte carlor with the sq 4070 in it along with 2 12" mmats running off a d700.4. Serious dimming until I had a 2nd battery installed for the audio.
The way I solved the dimming problem was with HIDs.
The ballasts provide a constant voltage to headlights.

stslimited84

For some reason metra's website isn't showing speaker brackets when i plug the car in. Any idea what the part number is? Also, will the brackets cause door panel fit issues or will it still fit fine?

This would be the correct dash kit? --->
What other items am i going to need aside from the amp wiring kit if I do it myself (still unsure on that atm)

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

According to metra, yes thats the right kit.

And these should work.
They're pretty universal for 6.5" speakers.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/METRA-82-780...2ab30c&vxp=mtr

You will need to drill 3 small holes to attach the bracket (still better than widening the speaker hole) and 3 machine/self tapping screws.

I did have some slight fitment issues only because there was a plastic guard on the inside of the door panel where it covered the stock speaker.
It was easily removed with some pliers. (You will have to break it off the panel)

Weigel21

Merry Christmas to you and Kenny as well.

As for Kenny's work around on the dimming headlights, no offense to him, but that doesn't address the issue of an insufficient electrical system. While HIDs are a good light to use anyways, and I recommend them as well, your electrical will still need upgrading. I'll add more later on your amp installation question.

Alright, so on to the amp. Depending on the amp wiring kit you get, you may need to buy one or two pairs of RCA cables.

Have you selected a place to mount your amp? You'll want to keep the ground wire under 18", the shorter the better, so keep that in mind when selecting a mounting location. Be sure the grounding point is a good clean bare metal surface that make a good connection to the car's chassis ground. On many newer cars, they bond parts of the car together using an adhesive, which while stronger than a weld, makes for a horrible electrical connection. For example, the rear deck in some cars are bonded in place and so they are in fact isolated from the car's ground. The floor of your trunk is likely the best spot for grounding the amp, just be sure to clean the spot you choose well.

Also, don't forget to run the power and RCA cables down opposite sides of the car and try to keep the RCA cables away from any power wires. If it must run by one, try to cross it at a 90* angle to reduce the area of interaction (not really the word I wanted to use, but..).

If you run into any issues, be sure to let us know.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

No offense taken.
It was the cheapest fix for dimming headlights I could do.
Other than getting a power cell/HO alternator.

As for the ground location. Trunk floor is a great spot, or the rail that sits between your trunk and rear seats.

stslimited84

The brackets are ordered. As far as the SQ 4070, I'm waiting to hear back from Mmats directly or the ebay seller.

I haven't selected an amp wiring kit b/c I hadn't decided if I wanted to do it myself b/c its not something I've done before. I think I could tackle it with some assistance, particularly regarding the crossovers, pass filters, etc.

What else do I need to order? wire harnesses? Recommendations for an amp kit? I imagine the amp kit would include the necessary new speaker wire then?

Also, the pioneer head unit I have includes 2 usb ports in the rear of the head unit. So I need to purchase two usb cables to be able to run them to the desired locations correct?


You guys have been great and I appreciate it!

Weigel21

Not entirely sure what your MMATS asks for in the way of wire gauge used, but I'd imagine 8GA would suffice. However, if you plan to add another amp for a sub or maybe even a more powerful 4-channel, then running heavier gauge wiring now is a good call. It never hurts to run heavier wire, if your checkbook can swing it, but going too lite on it will result in regrets.

When installing the power wire you need to have an in-line fuse within 18" of the battery to protect it from too much current/amperage. Quality 8GA should handle 50-60AMPS, while quality 4GA should easily handle 100AMPS and upwards of 150AMPS. Many package deals will include a fuse and if the fuse that comes with the kit is smaller than what the GA wire included is commonly known to handle, DON'T change the fuse to a fuse of higher amperage.

Many kits do not include speaker wire for running to the speakers, so you'll likely need to buy some. 18GA wire should suffice, but I'd opt for 16GA if your cash flow allows it. If you add a sub, 12-14GA should be used for it. As for how much wire you'll need, you can measure from the chosen mounting spot of the amp to each speaker location and add up the lengths, then add another 10ft for good measure. Chances are 50ft roll will do you, but I'd do some measuring just to make sure.

Good wire brands, IMO, are Tsunami, Kicker, StreetWires, Rockford Fosgate, JL Audio, Stinger, etc. etc. If you're looking to cut costs somewhere, EFX makes decent wire as well so you don't have to pay extra for the name.

You'll also want to pick up some connectors for connecting to the speaker's terminals, be sure you pick up both the larger one for the positive and smaller one for the negative speaker terminals.

For installing the stereo, you'll need the dash kit and wiring harness. I don't believe your 00' Civic is new enough to have a data cable instead of a switched power wire, but if it does, you'll likely need an interface to retain your door chimes and warring tones.

When connecting the wiring, you can use butt connectors, or if you are up to it, the preferred method of soldering the wires and using heat shrink tubing. If you opt for the latter, be sure to use the proper method for twisting the wires together before soldering and to place the heat shrink tubing onto one of the wires before connecting them, as it's not possible (read easy) to do after the wires are soldered together. If you use but connectors (the quicker and easier method) be sure to tug on the wires slightly to make sure they are firmly crimped.

The Pioneer should have came with one 5' USB cable, so unless it's not long enough to reach the spot you want it to, you should only need one more USB cable.

As for tuning the system, that will be a little harder for us to help you with. Kenny has the same car as you, to my understanding, so he may have some insight as to how the factory stereo sounded and where it lacked, but unless he has the same exact HU, Speakers, and amp, it's not going to be possible for him, or anyone, to know how it sounds and make the necessary adjustments. On top of that, some of the tuning is solely based off the listener's opinion/preference from what they hear and everyone's hearing and preferences differ. We can however offer up some advice as to settings we believe to be good, but your ears will have to be the judge.

For the crossovers, if you aren't planning to add a sub, for now, you'll have to rely on the Polks for all of your low end. Sadly, they are not and never will replace a sub, so you can't expect them to play down to 35Hz well (I don't care what their frequency response claims, they won't do it). Usually, most tend to set the HPF around 80Hz, but they tend to have a sub to handle the lows. You can try going down to 60Hz or so, but the lower you go, the more likely the output will start to become muffled and distorted. You'll have to rely on your ears for this, if you can't detect any unwanted noise with the HPF set to 60, 50, 40 30, or whatever, then by all means, set it there, but I just can't see them doing particularly well below 50Hz myself.

Not sure if the crossover is defeatable on the amp or not, but it is recommended not to double filter. Meaning, use the HPF on the amp or HU, not both. Now the amp has a variable filter, which is nice in that you can dial it down until the output starts to distort and then turn it back up until it clears. However, the HU has simple to use preset HPF bands, It's your choice, but I'd likely opt for setting the HU HPF to off and use the amp's.

When it comes to the EQ and other sound shaping tools, such as loudness, bass boosts, etc etc, I like to recommend leaving them off or sett to flat. The reason I like to suggest this, in most, if not all cases, using these add distortion to your music. You may not clearly hear it, but boosting a frequency to make up for what's not there adds distortion. In many cases, with good speakers, plenty of clean power, and a clean audio source (store bought CD's, lossless compression, etc. etc.), you can get the desired sound with little to no EQ adjustments or other sound shaping tools. Now one thing I do approve of is using the EQ to cut frequencies. If you should find the highs are too sharp or you're experiencing the infamous Hissing S, you can use the EQ to cut the frequencies and this doesn't add distortion. I'd like to think that with a good HU, quality speakers, and a good clean amp, that you won't experience the hissing S, but when i had it emerge, I found it occurs in the 3k-5k range, just a little FYI.

Anyways, after you get everything and decide if you're going to tackle it yourself,don't hesitate to ask for more assistance.

That's my 2 cents, anyone else?

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

^
What he said.

And I don't have the same car as him.
All I know is that he has a 2000 civic.
Not even sure if coupe or sedan lol.

I have a 2003 Civic Coupe

stslimited84

Located these on amazon. Are these correct?









Will these work? i realize the speaker wire isnt a brand you listed but it has 500 reviews with a very good rating and I can get it quick. Listed two different amp wiring kits that had solid reviews.

Mmats also responded and no longer makes the plugs I need so if I want to use that amp I have to gamble with ebay. Currently waiting for seller response. In the meantime, I'm looking at some used Mmats sq 4160 - 160wrms x 4. Figure if I get this, I can just keep the gain down and have head room for later on if needed.

Are those bannana plugs preferred to use as opposed to direct wiring into amp terminal?


**and its a 4 door sedan ;p

Weigel21

I suspect the stereo wiring harness is correct, based off the information listed, but since I haven't been around Honda's I can't confirm beyond a doubt that is is correct. So Kenny, care to confirm?

The butt connectors should work with the 16GA wire, if you intend to splice the wiring harnesses pigtails that come with the Polks to it. If you'd rather run the speaker wire directly from the amp to the speaker and cut down on connections that could potentially become an issue, then opt for female quick disconnects. The are two sizes that will be needed, a larger one for the positive terminal and a smaller one for the negative terminal of the speaker.

The 45* spade connectors you found are quite nice IMO if your amp has speaker terminals that accept them and not bare wire. I almost suspect you tracked down these spade connectors from my post saying spade connectors before I edited it. In my defense, I run amps that accept bare wire and haven't used amps that can utilize a spade connectors in so long (well, probably 5-6 years) that I sort of forgot they exist. If your amp accepts bare wire, that's the route I take and suggest. Just be careful of stray strands of wire not making it into the terminal, they can cause big issues.

The RCA brand wire is supposedly CCA (Copper-Clad Aluminium), according to the description, which doesn't coincide with what the photos show. On top of that, it's home audio wiring, so the insulation will be thin. Now this isn't to say it's not suitable to use, it's just that it'll be more vulnerable to being cut/worn/damaged during installation or over time from vibration/rubbing against edges or whatnot. I'd recommend wire specific for car audio use, but home audio wire will work. Also, given it's CCA, I don't honestly know just how much power it'd like to carry. I myself would opt for heavier speaker wire, but there is a member on her that claims to have sent every bit as much power through OEM 18GA wire as you will likely send. I know pure copper 18GA can handle more power than CCA , but just how much less CCA can carry I don't/won't know without doing some research.

The amp kits you found are both alright, I mean they're not top shelf products, but they'll work. The KnuKonceptz kit comes with CCA wiring and the older style AGU fuse holder with an 80AMP fuse. The DB Link kit has CCA wire as well, but includes the newer style ANL fuse holder (albeit a poorly made one) and a 100AMP fuse. Given the 20AMP larger fuse rating, their wire may be slightly larger GA or have a higher percentage of copper in it. Also, it's RCA cables look to be twisted while the KnuKonceptz don't appear to be (which twisted RCA cables tend to reject outside noise better). For your installation, either kit should work, but there's better quality kits out there, they just cost more (naturally).

Now jumping back to the wire being listed as CCA, CCA is not as desirable as pure copper in many cases. It's not as conductive as pure copper and is not able to handle as high of amperage as pure copper of the same gauge, thus you'll see wiring kits containing fuses of a lesser rating than that of a Pure copper kit. On the plus side, it's cheaper and weighs less.

Now you didn't forget you'll need two pairs of RCA/interconnect/patch cables did you?

The banana plugs are up to you, but they aren't generally used (or designed) to be used at the amp's terminals. They are generally used on the speaker box connection terminal and/or subwoofer's terminals if the sub and/or enclosure speaker terminals accept them. If your amp accepts bare wire and you wish to use these for the set screw to tighten up against, I personally wouldn't. They are small in diameter and will likely want to wiggle, no matter how tight you tighten the setscrew. If the wire were to be jiggled enough, perhaps by vibration, then it's possible (unlikely as it may be) that the set screw could be loosened. I personally feel that bare wire of the same gauge as the amp is designed to use in it's terminals makes for a good secure connection. When the setscrew is tightened there is nowhere for the wired to go, and thus it is held tight. And since it fills the entire hole of the connection terminal, it can't really wiggle back and forth.

Again, my two cents, so take it for what it's worth. Kenny may have an alternative take on some of the products.

stslimited84

Those were just items I found through a quick search. I'm very much open to product recommendations, preferably available on amazon but if not no biggie!

Weigel21

May I inquire as to why you would prefer the items be bought through amazon?

Also, what is your budget for all of the installation gear?

stslimited84

]

They dont have to be bought on amazon, but I do enjoy amazon as they have great customer service, shipping, and return policies. again, it doesn't have to be from amazon, but if an item is available there or somewhere else for similiar price, id buy from amazon.

I'm trying to get installation gear that is solid but doesnt break the bank. Sorry I know that is vague. Trying to keep costs down but I dont want junk, if you know what i mean.

Weigel21

Understood. Let me do some looking.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

My guess is as good as yours.

Sorry to say, I had my amp and deck installed by geek squad at a local bestbuy before I actually got into car audio.
If I were able to do it over again, I'd definitely would have gone a different route and done it properly myself.

If you have soldering equipment, I'd highly prefer soldering over butt connectors.
But if you do use butt connectors, make sure after you crimp every wire to give it a decent tug to make sure that it's secured properly.
There are many people who install their headunit and figure something isnt quite right, they pull the unit back out and the wires are hanging all over the place.

For the spade connectors.
I haven't seen any amps that take spade connectors as of recent, I don't even think they make them anymore.
I use fork terminals rather than bare wire for all my connections.
(With heat shrink tubing where the crimp meets the wire, so I for sure have no stray wires)

As for the banana plugs, they're great, but not necessary.
The terminal on my sub is the one that you push down and insert the bare wire into the hole and it'll hold in place.
I can't for the life of me remember what they're called.

stslimited84

Whatever you guys recommend as the best route to wire I'll prob go with as long as its not to difficult. This will be my first install on all accounts. That being said, I need newb directions on the proper install gear to buy including wire and proper connections etc.


Just heard back from the ebay seller and i ordered the plugs. I have sourced a mmats sq 4160 for 300 used. Its a freakin beast so I'm contemplating that although I'm hesitant to buy a used amplifier.


also, unless i'm missing something, I will not need the wire harness since im doing new wires and connecting the rca plugs from the H/U to the amp and the amp to the speakers, correct? or am i missing something?