Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

^
I like the MM series. Great speakers.

But I went with JL because I got a great deal on them.
Couldn't be happier with the results.
I don't think I've gotten past 100db before. (I've only used the JL iPhone db meter app)

I tune my sound stage for quality, not power.

Weigel21

118dB was more than loud enough for me, I don't normally listen to my system at levels above 105-108dB. The only reason I know it gets that loud is it's nice to know, that and it seems that's what most people I meet want to know. Seems most don't care if it sounds balanced, just if it's loud.

On that note, I really need to sound damp my car a lot more. When I crank it to show it off to people (not while driving btw, as I show them the install and everything) my car really begins to rattle, which sounds like crap. I did put some sound damping material on it, which cut down the rattles a good amount. I can turn the stereo up to volume level 16 with no audible rattles, before addressing the issue, I got rattles at 13. I do have an iPod Touch, might have to try the JL meter app and see what it says.

Kind of wished I'd gotten a couple 10W3s, or maybe four 8w3s, or possibly eight 6w3s, but the cost was too much. I got two of the Polks at a bargain, they were used, but only four months old (guy still had the receipt) and I got them for $200 for the pair. Really couldn't pass them up. The guy bought a new 2011 pickup and decided leave the stock system in it.

stslimited84

Since im only getting one, wouldnt the polk be running at 2 ohms since its dvc like the inf? I ordered the cap but i can refuse delivery and return it, no biggie there.

The digi amps are nice but a bit pricey for us atm. Thats why i linked that jl. Seemed like good power and brand for the price. My electrical should be fine on those two right?

I need to order some additional power wire...anything else?

Weigel21

Yes, it'd present a 2 ohm final load if the voice coils are wired in parallel. Given the JL is only rated at 300RMS@4 ohms, I opted to link to the DVC so you would be able to feed it full power and not be as likely to send it a clipped signal from an amp trying to pump out more than 300RMS@4 ohms. Set your gain with a DMM to limit it's output to no more than 380RMS, yes, I said 380RMS when the sub is rated for 360RMS. That extra clean power shouldn't hurt the sub one bit. Clipping is the number one cause of driver failure, not over powering them, and over powering this sub would be something in excess of 400RMS. IF, you listen to the sub with the volume set so the sub gets full power at all times, then yes, you'll be reducing the life of the sub by a notable about. However, I highly doubt you'll be bumping the sub like that all the time, and if you set the gain with a 0dB test tone, you'd likely never actually feed the sub full power with any music to my knowledge. If you use a -3dB test tone, then maybe, but music is too dynamic for that minor extra power to be of any major concern. Sure, it may cut down the sub's lifespan by 5-10%, not a big deal in most cases. For instance, lets say the sub where known to last 10 years, yours might only last 9. Anyways, you can set the gain for whatever voltage you like, but I'd try to keep the output to no more than 380RMS@2 ohms (27.56VAC).

IF your electrical system where up to snuff and lack of power weren't an issue, a power cap can help keep the power more consistent to the amp, reducing drops in bass output and whatnot. However, with an insufficient electrical system, it's just one more device sucking power making things worse. It's like putting a band aid on a severed limb. Sure, it might reduce the bleeding, but if you think that will save your life, you're sadly mistaken. A cap can mask the issue of a poor electrical system, but not address it. Your choice on keeping it.

That JL will likely pull around 30-35AMPS when dishing out upwards of 380RMS. Combine that with the draw of the MMATS, and you'll be stressing your Civic's electrical system. Keep in mind, that will be when you're bumping the music LOUD. At lower volume level the amps will draw less amperage. Normal listening levels may result in both amp drawing a combined 30AMPS, which your Civic should be able to handle. Either way, upgrading the big 3 is a wise choice.

For the Big 3, you'll need to measure to find just how much wire you'll need. I'd add 3' to that number for good measure. Better to have extra wire to waste, than not enough and having to order more. You're not going to want to splice any 4GA wire together, so it's best to have more than enough wire. Might end up wasting $5 in wire, but it's better than comming up short and having to order $12 more in wire so you can run one solid length of wire. Also, you'll need 4GA spade or ring connectors.

Man, I'm back to essays already.

stslimited84

so based on the first paragraph here, If i were to stick with infinity sub, the JL amp would have a lighter work load at say 325 wrms and draw less power from the electrical system?

The cap, sub, and amp are being delivered tomorrow, but like i said i can refuse delivery and go a different route. That being said, if i change it up, id like to do it tonight so i can order it and have it by the weekend.

the 16 gauge speaker wire i have will work for the sub wiring correct?

will i need to cap the various rca cables when i get to actually setting the gains on the amps since the rca's will be unplugged or will they be ok sitting on the carpet in the trunk?

im sure there is something else i wanted to ask but cant remember at this particular moment.

and i like the "essays"...helps me immensely.

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

I would run 12 or 14 ga for the sub. 16 may cause issues with the amp causing it to shut down.
RCAs will be fine if kept separated. If you are worried about it, throw a piece of electrical tape over the end of each one.

stslimited84

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...FDB2-MANL.html

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_...MANL60-5N.html

Just ordered those...hoping they get here saturday.

ordered some 4 and 8 gauge power wire for the amps power/grounding needs and some 12 gauge speaker wire.

Edit:

I have 18 ft of remote wire that came with the amp wiring kit which should be more than plenty to get to the trunk. From reading it seems as tho its as easy as running an extra section of wire from amp to amp. Would that be the recommendation here?

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

I need to dampen my car more as well.
I have 1 layer of second skin alpha damp in the trunk, and it works wonders.
Just need more of it elsewhere.

I'm very happy with my single 12" W3.
whenever I pop my trunk for someone, they are so surprised that it's a single driver.
Single sub also keeps a bit of trunk space for me.

When I bought my JL sub, it was the driver + sealed enclosure + the old Sony amp I had, all for $150. It was a steal.
But now, I think I can find w3v2's all over for $50 a pop.
I really want to grab a w6v2, I can find them for about $200 used now.


As for the sub wiring, I would recommend 12ga minimum.

Weigel21

Yes, the Infinity doesn't ask for as much power, so if you bought the DVC 4 ohm model, wired it to the amp presenting a 2 ohm final load, and set the gain for 325RMS (25.4VAC) , it's allow the amp to work easier.

Now if you bought a 300RMS SVC 4 ohm sub and set the amp for 300RMS@4 ohms (34.64), it'd actually cause the amp to work harder. The reason, a 4 ohm load is more resistance than 2 ohms. Honestly though, I don't see it making too much difference though, might draw 5AMPS less. Then agian, you don't really have much extra power to spare.

Infinity makes decent subs IMO, had a set of Kappa Perfect 10.1 subs in my car a few years back (still have them) and they were pretty decent. Sounded a bit week in a sealed enclosure, according to WinISD they had a sever drop off below 50Hz. In a ported enclosure tuned to 27Hz however, they provided a nice flat response all the way down to 28Hz. Only issue, they were in 1.25CUFT enclosures and a combined 2.5CUFT enclosure took more trunk space than I liked.

A guy would have to check the sub's EBP to determine if it's better suited for a sealed or ported enclosure. Not sure if I ever mentioned such before yet.

Not sure what you'd be wanting to switch up to, so I can't really offer up much. Well, I could toss out quite a few options, but I'd just be swinging blindly.

16GA is pushing it for wiring to a sub that'll be carrying 300+RMS. not saying you could't do it (I've used 18GA in my first setup, but the sub amp was only capable of 180-200RMS). Still, I'd just spend $10 (or whatever) on 5' of 12GA or 14GA.

With the MMATS, you'll need to measure the voltage of the preamp output at the RCA male end. Remember, the MMATS only supports up to a 2.5V input voltage. As for setting the gain on the amp, the RCAs need to be plugged into the amp for it to produce an output voltage for you to measure while playing a test tone. There is no reason to cap them as they'll be plugged in, with the exeption of the ones for the MMATS while you're measuring their voltage ensuring it's at a safe level. In this case, just make sure they don't contact a metallic surface. Should only have to measure the output of one of them as they should all be the same if you aren't adjusting the fad/balance, but checking them all doesn't hurt.

The only reason you'd cap the RCA cable is if they were going to be left connected to the HU but not connected to an amp. Case in point, when we initially discussed you adding a sub amp in the future and connecting the RCA cables now to save the trouble later.

Weigel21

Alright, the JL amp doesn't have any on-board fuses either, so because of this, JL recommends using a 50AMP fuse to protect it. A 60AMP should be fine, but...

As for the MMATS, no idea for sure that they'd want for it, but 60AMP should be fine. If Mini ANL fuses were really cheap, which they aren't compared to other types of fuses, you could use a 40AMP, try setting the gain on the MMATS, and if it blows the fuse, it's drawing more current. Then repace the fuse with a 50AMPand try again. Once you were able to set the gain without the fuse blowing, that'd be a good sized fuse to use as it's not excessively large. As it stands though, I don't foresee 60AMP fuses being a poor choice.

As for the remote turn on, you should be fine splitting the wire ito two to send the signal to both amps. However, it is recommended to use a relay when running multiple amps. The reason for this, the remote turn on is but .3 amps, sometimes less with other manufactures, and that just isn't enough to power on 3, 4, 5, or more amplifiers. General rule of thumb, two amplifiers is the most you want to have the remote turn on lead power on without the use of a relay. Now I know of people who insist upon using a relay no matter what, an added precaution I guess. I've used the remote turn-on lead of three Alpine HU's in the past to power on two amps with no issues whatsoever. My current Sony is only powering on my sub amp, 'm not running external power for my full-range right now. Now I've got a Pioneer DEH-80PRS sitting in a box waiting to be used and when it is, it'll have two amplifiers wired to it as well. Sorry, I'm beginning to ramble now. My point, two amplifiers is fine, three or more amplifiers you'll want to use a relay or risk damaging the HU.

stslimited84

Well the thing id be switching out is the inf sub for the polk sub. I know you like the polk. Given the power consumption we just discussed, you think its advisable to go with the polk or stick with the infinity? In either event I think i'd be wiring it for 2 ohms.

I would have gotten the 50 amp fuse; however i didnt see it available at sonic. I only saw 40 and 60 listed so I went with the 60 as the JL literature recommended a 50 amp.

I ordered 3' of 12 gauge, figuring that was enough. Guess i should have gotten more

Weigel21

Yep, amazing how much even the modest amount of damping helps. Now not to be rude, but the proper term is damp. Dampen refers to making something wet. Damp refers to reducing vibrations. It's a common mistake, but just thought I'd correct you on it.

I've used RAAMat BXT in the past, wasn't bad. I'd like to use SS, I honestly feel it's likely the best product on the market. In my current beater, and that's not far from the truth, I didn't want to spend any large sum of money on damping material when i only planned to be driving the car for a year tops. Turns out, I've had the car for a year and a half now. Anyways, I cheeped out and bought Quick Roof (Peel'N'Seal) from Home Depot for around $13 a roll (12.5SQFT). Didn't expect anything spectacular from using it, but I'd heard some people talk about using roofing material as a cheap sound deadener. Well, it did do a pretty decent job for $13. Here in KS, thus far, it hasn't fallen off due to heat or cold. Someing along the lines of SS damplifier would likely do a slightly better job with the same amount, but costs more. Still, being it's butyl based and not asphalt based, it's likely to last longer and has a higher heat and cold tolerance. Oh, and it doesn't have an asphalt smell or toxic fumes if used in the cabin of a car. Although, I can't say I've notice much of a smell from this Quick Roof from a mere foot or so away. In the cabin of the car there's no hint of asphalt whatsoever, at least to my nose. Can't comment on the alleged toxic fumes (pretty sure any fumes wouldn't be safe to breathe), other than I'm still alive.

As for a single driver, audiophiles insist upon using just one sub. With muti sub setups you get cancellation between subs, no matter what, and this is lost sound. Granted, more subs means moving more air, and moving more air equates to higher SPLs. Still, exaggerated bass isn't what an audiophile seeks.

$150? Sounds like a pretty decent deal back when you got it. Depending on the Sony amp, you might have been able to have turned around and sold that paperweight for $100. Sorry, just not much of a Sony car audio fan. I know, I know, I've got a Sony HU and speak fairly high of it, for what it is, but overall, I'm not into Sony car audio.

Yep, depending on how long ago you bought the sub and what model amp the Sony was, you may very well have gotten a much better deal than I. I got two subs (with original packaging) the guy paid just over $400 for inside a sealed enclosure for a 08 Ford F-150 crew cab (likely a $100-$150 enclosure). Haven't got the enclosure sold yet, but I'm trying to get $50 out of it.

Weigel21

Polk and Infinity both make good subs IMO. Neither models are their upper level, but should do well nevertheless. Really the issue is going to be which performs better in a sealed and better in a ported. Then you'll have to decided. As with my Infinity subs, they had nop low end response when in a sealed enclosure. The Polks I have now are designed to work well in sealed enclosures.

As for the wire, you'll only need enough to go from the sub/enclosure to the amp. Depending on the location of each, 3' may be plenty or just shy of reaching.

Weigel21

According the EBP, the Infinity is better suited for a sealed enclosure with a notably lower EBP of 51 vs 61 of the Polk. However the Infinity asks for a 1.25 cuft enclosure while the Polk asks for a .88 sealed. If placed in a ported, which the Polk's EBP suggests it's better suited for than the Infinity, the Polk asks for a 1.5cuft and the Infinity asks for a 2cuft.

Don't feel your decision of the Infinity was a poor choice, but your ears will be the ultimate judge.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

If you look around, sometimes local JL Authorized dealers will have package deals with JX amp + WX sub.
They're not going to push 300+ watts, but they are going to be decent subs at a moderate price.


Dampen works.
to stifle, surpress, deaden, restrain, or depress.
You can dampen your mood. Doesn't mean you just got out of the shower.
Same as dampers; they don't get you wet, they stiffen up or soften up suspension.

I can highly recommend the SS Damplifier product, it's great material, thicker than dynomat. I wouldn't recommend their alpha damp that I have though. Reason being, it's WAY too tough, and very hard to work with.
I believe some people go with fatmat which is a bit more cost effective i think. Never researched them though.


I got my sub combo over 3 years ago.
It was an awesome deal when I got it.
I bought my JL 500/1v2 for $200 a year back (Also a steal), and sold the Sony amp for $50.
I also have a Sony Xplod HU. It's a great HU for it's price. Sony makes some crappy speakers, but their HU's are pretty top notch. (For the price)

SPL is definitely what I'm not going for, I want a sub to compliment my music, and that's exactly what I have set up my system for.
If I wanted loud, I would not have a sealed enclosure as well.
I want to upgrade to the W6v2 because the bass is a lot tighter and crisper compared to the W3 models.

stslimited84

Well, if i ordered within the next 45 mins, i could have the polk here on friday. That being said, the box i ordered is 1.25 cu ft and matches the infinity's space requirements.

The box would be too big for the polk, but could fill could be added im sure. Given the information it seems as tho i should just stick with the infinity? like i said, i wasn't planning on a sub due to budget but you guys convinced me if i come this far i may as well round it out. We're not looking to win spl competitions...just for nice quality music.

so its game time...stick with the infinity or go with the polk.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Just stick with the infinity.
I'm not a huge fan of either of their subwoofer lineups.

But they will work for your application.
For my personal car, I would not have either in the back.

stslimited84

Yea think i will. I know they arent the best out there but with our budget i think itll fit the bill. Can always swap out later on

Weigel21

There was a huge thread over proper terminology on a car audio forum a few years back, the conclusion was damp was proper, dampen was not.

Honestly, it's not really a big deal to me, but after that huge uproar over it, I got used to just saying damp. Still, damp just sound odd though. Alright, enough with that.

I helped a guy install a JL 12WX-4 a couple months back. I think it was rated for 200RMS. Anyways, it didn't do JL audio much justice IMO. He, after just a week, opted for an Alpine Type-R and I didn't blame him. Granted, the Type-R was a 600RMS sub made with "better" materials and a higher price tag.

As for sound deadening material, the cheaper FatMat, last I knew, was Asphalt based, like the stuff I'm currently using. Now they do have some higher priced stuff that I believe is either an asphalt/butyl mix or maybe it's strictly butyl, but it's priced much higher so the price difference between it and SS is far less.

I've had a pair of Sony 6.75" 3-ways, one of their old CD 2001 players, and two amps. None of it impressed me and I gave up on them until my current Sony HU, a Sony DSX-S200X. As you said, for the money, it's not too shabby. Sad to say, but I opted for it after owning an Alpine CDA-117.

Yep, ported is a better way to go for SPL, but some of the best sounding systems are actually ported, believe it or not. If the enclosure is built specifically for the driver's parameters, it can do wonders. I'm sure you've heard some of JL Audio's ported setup, more notably a W6 in an HO enclosure. Their enclosures are some of the best n the market, zero port noise with their HO enclosures. but yea, overall, sealed is the way to go for a more sonically accurate sub.

@stslimited84
Yea, just stick to the Infinity for now. Should be enough to round out the system. If top SQ was the goal, I wouldn't be looking into Infinity or Polk either, but when we're looking at sub $100 subs, there's not a lot out there that's "great". Still, the Perfect 10.1's I have aren't bad and neither are the MM1240D, but again, not top SQ subs. They are more SQ oriented than a lot of mainstream subs on the market, but far from top SQ.

Pretty much the main reason I mentioned the Polk is due to you running a Polk full-range. Some like to keep matching drivers, while others couldn't care less. I've met far too many people who wish to keep to one brand for everything, which is a poor idea IMO. No one makes the best of everything for car audio. To get the "best" you're pretty much forced to mix and match, but this is neither here nor there.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't really bother me.
Dampen just sounds right.
Damp; used as a verb, actually IS to make something wet.
To make a damp towel, one must damp the towel with water.

I honestly don't know, English is such a stupid language lol.

WX subs are probably one of the lowest end subs from JL, but still, a package deal.
But since he has the amp, he may as well just get a decent sub.

If it were me personally, on a budget, i'd only settle for a RF P2 or P1, or a JBL sub.
Though, brand new price, they're about double the price of the infinity.

Yeah, I've seen and witnessed some really nice quality from good quality enclosures with W6. Quality wise, I say they can trump even the W7. But as for SPL, it's gotta be W7 hands down.
Though, if I were to run a quality SPL system, I wouldn't be with JL, tbqh.
I would definitely be running Memphis, FI, Sundown or Ascendant.
But budget sound quality is where I'm at.

I would never run 1 brand for anything.
Unless I was specifically sponsored by the brand.

Weigel21

Couldn't agree more.

My first set of decent subs were 10W0-4 way back in 99', while it's been ages since I've heard them, I didn't feel the WX was as good, but who knows.

I've owned some RF subs in my days, an old 10" HX, a couple 12" Punch-Z, and most recent, a pair of P2's. Personally wasn't impressed with them, but everyone has different preferences, hearing, taste, and experiences so who knows. RF tends to make fairly decent middle of the road subs overall though.

Nver really been into SPL, had some friends that were, first one to get into competition was back in 99-00' with (4) 10" aluminum coned 500RMS eclipse subs in a huge sealed enclosure in the back of a 92' Cherokee. Supposedly hit in the low 140's. I know it had enough pressure to pop out the back window, I witnessed that first hand. Was in the Jeep with himand asked just how loud it would go. His response was to pause the HU, turnt he sub volume to max, HU to max, and boost the bass. When he press play, my ears hurt like hell, even covered with my hands, and my chest hurt. Luckily it was maybe 10 seconds before it popped the rear seal and the window fell out. Sad thing is, we were drivig down the highway at the time. Oh the things we do when young and dumb.

As for running a single brand, it'd be hard to do. Few manufacurers make every piece of car audio. Even so, to end up with the results you seek, mixing up manufacturers is a must, not one is tops in all markets of car audio gear, IMO.

stslimited84

Everything has arrived except for the distribution block and the rca for the sub. I'm going to try to wire the sub now based on this diagram: http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...4-ohm_mono.jpg

stslimited84

Wired it up as stated above...pretty straightforward.

On the amp there are two positive and two negative speaker wire terminals next to each other...see picture: (dont know why but the forum is posting my pictures upside down)



This was taken from the manual regarding this:
"SPEAKER OUTPUT
Subwoofer connection to the JX monoblock
is straightforward and takes place at the
far right of the power/speaker connection
panel. Two positive (%u201C+%u201D) connections and
two negative (%u201C%u2013%u201D) connections are available
via a connector labeled %u201CSpeaker Output
(Mono)%u201D. The dual connections allow for two
separate speaker wire runs to be parallelconnected
to the amplifier%u2019s mono output."

am i correct in understanding only one of each wire terminal will be used for my application? the extra two holes would be used if i was powering two subs from this mono block?

On a different note, does the 36" ground rule apply for the h\u?

Weigel21

Yep, the speaker terminals on the amp are wired in parallel internally, so it doesn't matter which + or - terminal you use. The two terminals are for, as you suspected, ease in wiring multiple subs to the amp. The user has to keep in mind that the terminals are wired in parallel and so it'd cut the load in half. Meaning two 4Ohm subs would present a 2 ohm load. In your case, the sub has two voice coils, you can look at this is it being two subs, but you are doing the parallel wiring at the sub, not the amp, so it'll see it as a 2 ohm load.

As for the ground rule, it's more of a highly regarded rule of thumb. Yes, it's best to keep the ground as short as possible, but sometimes it's unavoidable having a longer ground lead. You can used the ground wire from the wiring harness for your car, although it's usually recommended to ground the stereo ground directly to the chassis of the car, as I suggested, but that's not to say it wouldn't work otherwise, it's just what is recommended.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Mmmm, the fresh smell of a brand new JL Amp...


W0 subs are LOUD. No doubt about that.
The P2 and P1 subs are great value for their money.
They definitely out-do most of the "off the shelf" subs out there.
Tell me about it....

Weigel21

Damn, I should have double checked my post before posting, that thing was full of spelling and grammar errors. Oh well, just goes to show my intelligence, or lack thereof.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Lmfao, we all have our moments.

Weigel21

As for W0's being loud. Maybe the newer ones, but the 10W0-4s I had back in the day were rated at 125RMS and merely got loud enough to begin to be annoying to passerbys. After may buddies ended up with systems that were much louder, I opted for a 15" Kicker F15c in a 3cuft enclosure tuned to 32Hz. In the back of an 88 Tempo given 400RMS, it rattled the **** out of that little POS. That kicker was EASILY much louder than the two 10's off 250RMS. Still, it couldn't hold a candle to the JL's tightness and clarity. Wished I'd never made the switch, but those W0's just couldn't compete with my friends systems.

Kennykid2002

iTrader: (1)

Lol, I can't really compete with anyone trying to be loud and obnoxious.
Not that I wanted to in the first place.
But I can hold my own; for a single driver. I've set off a couple car alarms, being the tard that I am :P

Weigel21

Yep, don't care much to be loud anymore, don't care to announce I have anything of value to steal, but back in High School, it was "the thing". Never set off any car alarms, to my knowledge. Most times I really bump the system there's not many people or cars around. The old Kicker setup was likely to have set of a fair amount of alarms, but I went to a small rural school, few locked their car doors, let alone set an alarm.