DaBrother

Girlfriend's DX timing belt has never been replaced per her memory.
Guess she is on borrowed time.

Wondering if it is even possible for a car to have 189,3?? miles and timing belt not be replaced. Would that even be possible? Maybe it was replaced and she not know or remember. Afraid she mey be stranded.

ezone

Possible.

If there is any doubt, get it done ASAP before it lets go and gets real expensive.

Wankenstein

Is she the original owner?
If not, how long has she owned it and at what mileage did she purchase it?
If possible, do a dealer service record check through the VIN number (call any Honda dealer).
Carfax: may get lucky and find a service record.

OR as Ezone stated replace it... and not take the chance of the timing belt snapping and bending valves, head gasket replacement, etc. It's good practice (due to the lack of history) to replace the timing belt, timing belt tensioner, waterpump.

Also, you may want to replace the alternator belt, a/c belt, and power steering pump belt while you have all of them off during the TB replacement.

DaBrother

She is the original owner. Has no knowledge of it ever being replaced.
Wondered if her dad may happened to know.


Today she told me of three people who have never had timing belt replaced. Of course those vehicles could have timing chains.

Wankenstein

Read the Service manual:
Replace timing belt every 7 years or 75k-100k miles depending on climate and use.

If you can't obtain a history then replace it as soon as possible. If the car has little to no value and she doesn't want to spend the money to replace the TB, tensioner and waterpump then chance the consequences..it's up to her/you but, at some point failure will happen.

ezone

Ask her just how in the **** is that relevant?

I'm sure I can find 3 clueless people who can give the same answer.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

well, there were some lucky ones, but rubber is rubber and the day it decides it's enough and go, it will go.

the issue is that engine is interference, so when it happens, the Oedipus complex the valves had with the piston will finally come to happen and they will meet. The end will not be nice, same as the tale... they will say " a kiss, a kiss!!! Craaash!"

DaBrother

She may be ready to have timing belt replaced now.
Disappointed that cover over timing belt can not easily be removed to inspect timing belt. Having to remove valve cover to remove top cover to remove lower cover to see timing belt is the pits.

What is up with aluminum washers on the oil and drain plugs? A friend told me he always get new washer when changing oil. Hope I got them tight enough. Have checked once and they do not seem to be leaking.

Wankenstein

Gives you incentive to just go ahead and change it if, you get that far to inspect it. Even, if you inspect it and think it looks good visibly it may be on it's way out regardless. No history..then replace it. Replace water pump and tensioner too.. don't cheap out. Use OEM parts or at least made in Japan parts: search HondaPartsNow (all OEM) and/or Amazon. If you bring it to a mechanic find one that will install parts you purchase to help save money and insure better parts quality.If, DIY follow service manual, torque specs and search through DIY threads here and elswhere + you tube vids. You may need to replace valve cover gasket too.

They are called crush washers and are recommended to be replaced each time (50 cents or less). Auto part stores sell an assortment of them so might as well pick some up while purchasing oil, filter and whatever else. I've reused them occassionally without leaks... as longg as they are not bent they're usually okay to reuse.

ezone

Nobody said the job had to be simple.

New washer every time.
Torque is about 30 or 33 ft-lb on most of their drainplugs (look it up), and if you have any sensitivity in your grip (sometimes known as 'the feel') you can feel the soft aluminum washer being squashed as it is tightened.

Wankenstein

Did she bring it in for scheduled services at dealerhsip or elswehere until, at least, the 100k mile mark? If she did then the dealership or other repair shop should have replaced it around the 100K mile mark. All that is moot though because it needs to be replaced at the mileage (190k) it's at now. Stop pondering and start wrenching or take your chances and when it ***** out on her and possibly bends valves then wish the TB was changed when suggested.

DaBrother

Evergreen TBK224MVCA2 96-00 Honda Civic 1.6 Seal D16Y Timing Belt Kit Valve Cover Gasket AISIN Water Pump $80+

Looking at this kit to buy for the job from Amazon.
Reviews look good.

Wankenstein

Put a direct link to the kit you want us to check out: https://www.amazon.com/Evergreen-TBK.../dp/B00N48BLO4

In that kit only the timing belt is OE/OEM. Aisin (waterpump) is a Japanse made product and known to be of good quality. I can't comment on the GMB tensioner but, I personally wouldn't use it. You should replace the three accesory belts (ac/alt/ps) too if, you don't know their mileage.

DaBrother

https://www.amazon.com/Evergreen-TBK...T0V0F0Z0PVYKGA


Have another question too.


Read about crankshaft pulley tool as a must have. The Haynes manual says use a chain or strap wrench. From what I have read and heard does that mean the Haynes author's mechanic did not actually remove the crankshaft pulley?

ezone

More like the author never ever had to work on a car in real life?

Crank pulley must be removed.
I bet a chain wrench could ruin the pulley.
See if DangerZone will rent you the real crank pulley tool, if you do need it and don't want to buy it yourself.....but I bet you can buy one for $25 if you hunt for it.

Wankenstein

O'Reilly's rents (free) them too. Did you say Dangerzone?:

mac25

Friggen love Archer!

Wankenstein

Each season is better than the last. Watch workaholics?

DaBrother

Removed valve cover and top timing belt cover.
That belt looks just like the new one. Cannot see any wear on the belt.
Removed spark plugs and turn engine to check entire belt.
See no separation or fiber worn or rounded edges.
The fiancée insists it has never been replaced. Wonder if the guy replaced it three years ago when manifold cracked. If he did it would only have 20 thousand or less on the belt.

ezone

It can be real tough to determine the age of a timing belt...... Unless it's actually showing obvious signs of deterioration where you can see it, appearance is not a reliable way to judge the age IMHO.

Once it's been installed and run in, the look doesn't change much it's hard to tell if it's one week or 8 years old.

Maybe the color and wear of the brand/lettering could be a clue.

Sometimes you have to peel the belt off and bend it backwards to see fine cracking around teeth that you otherwise wouldn't be able to easily see while it's installed (if you actually get to that point just slap a new one on LOL).

DaBrother

Can see HONDA and numbers printed on the belt.
Does not look like any of them are worn off or faded.
Guess looks can be deceiving.

By the way how do you post pictures on this site? Do the pictures have to be loaded on some web page then copied here?

ezone

That's what I do.
I use imigur then hotlink using the icon above the reply text box. You can insert images from just about anything on the web this way once you have the URL of the image.


You can also click 'go advanced' and scroll down to 'manage attachments' then upload direct from your computer

DaBrother

Thanks for your help.
Back to it today.

DaBrother

Got the big, bad bolt out yesterday.
Removed tensioner and water pump today.



This morning Crankshaft seal was a bear to get out. Hope I did not mess up. Hope they are in right and do not leak.
That would be very upsetting.

Read that valve cover bolt seals are a bear to replace. Dread that too.

old97civic

I replaced my valve cover gasket including bolt gaskets and spark plug tube seals. I don't remember exactly how I did the bolt seals but it wasn't that bad. Personally I had more difficulty with the tube seals. And be careful when putting the valve cover back on, when I did it wasn't on quite right and ended up pinching one of the tube seals, ended up having to do it again.

How did you get the bolt off? Impact? or manually?

DaBrother

Got another valve cover bolt seal. Thinking about using silicone this time instead of oil.
Wish I had used silicone for the cam and crankshaft seals. Been worrying about these seals. Did I push in the cam seal to far to get it straight? Is the crankshaft seal straight. Thought about getting new ones and try again to be sure.

Removed the crankshaft bolt manually. Had to have someone brace one breaker bar against a board on the ground and pushed on the other one till bolt broke loose. Both bars from Harbor Freight were bowing while pushing.

Also concerned about the cam shaft moving when loosening cam sprocket bolt. Guessing I can just turn it till it gets lined up??? Should I turn it counter clock wise four times???

Dang me, lost the shaft key for pulley. Hope I can find it or get another one.
Can I just get a key? Cannot find it.
What size is it?

ezone

The cam seal has to be seated a bit deeper than flush, or else the outermost lip of the seal won't cover the surface of the camshaft and will leak. Note carefully where the original is before removing it.

Crank seal goes in flush, I might use a drift or 3/8 extension to help tap it in til it's even with the pump surface all the way around.

DO NOT TURN THE CAM BY ITSELF unless you can ascertain all 4 pistons are not going to make contact with any valves. You WILL bend valves if you don't.
If you can't figure this out, reinstall the original timing belt in correct position so you can put a wrench on the crankshaft (bolt/pulley) and use that to hold the cam still while you remove the bolt.
I have fabricated spanners to work with various cam gears as well.
Use a torque wrench to install bolt!

Dealers might keep extra keys in stock, I know we kept a few on hand for many years.

DaBrother

That is the pits. Tried holding it with the belt and then put a bar in sprocket.
Cam sprocket still moved to turn about 1/8 of a turn.
So if I put old belt on to turn crankshaft won't there still be a problem turning both since they would be out of synch? I keep making problems for myself.

Guess I am OK with the seals then. Did not pay attention or look at position of seals before struggling to take out. Thought about leaving them along, but a friend said with that many miles, put in new ones. From your description believe they are in correctly now.

Ordered a key from Amazon.
Guy at a local parts store said a hardware store should have some shaft key stock.

The only progress today was installing the water pump. Then put in the tensioner leaving bolt loose for now.
Hate replacing these perfectly good items too but would not want to have to turn around and replace later after all this trouble.

ezone

Put it right back where it started.
If you continue turning it, you will cause serious damage.

DaBrother

Got belt on today. Checked everything. All OK.
Forgot something had to take it off.

Hate misplacing things. Forget where they were left. Drop bolts.

Hot today here too. That did not help.

Now have to finish re-assembly and replace lower engine mount.