A/C Not Cold At Idle
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Re: A/C Not Cold At Idle
(or if they do, I sure didn't see it)
You'd have to vent the freon to the atmosphere, and that's a huge $30,000 per event no-no in my world.
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I thought this would work for removal: http://www.harborfreight.com/25-cfm-...ump-98076.html but, it's just to vacuum out air pressure.. I should read descriptions. Would an empty approved R134 tank be all that's needed to reclaim freon? The pressure of the HVAC system is enough to force out the freon?
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 16, 2016 at 04:44 PM.
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If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
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Video shows a unit intended for stationary refrigeration/AC.
For Mobile AC we use different units, all pretty much self contained systems that include freon transfer pumps, vacuum pump, storage tanks, recycling/filtration system, gauges and scales. Some include oil injection systems, contaminant and sealant removal, and refrigerant identifiers.
The ehow link touches on much of the basics of how recovery works.
My point was to get you to understand that simply attaching a storage container to the car and opening the valve isn't going to remove freon from the vehicles AC system.
I completely missed that post when I typed out the reply that followed it, probably because it started a new page and I did not see it.
Yes this tool is should to be able to do what you need....that's a winner.
(Damn I forgot about those)
For Mobile AC we use different units, all pretty much self contained systems that include freon transfer pumps, vacuum pump, storage tanks, recycling/filtration system, gauges and scales. Some include oil injection systems, contaminant and sealant removal, and refrigerant identifiers.
The ehow link touches on much of the basics of how recovery works.
My point was to get you to understand that simply attaching a storage container to the car and opening the valve isn't going to remove freon from the vehicles AC system.
Just did some search and I found this video:
Yes this tool is should to be able to do what you need....that's a winner.
(Damn I forgot about those)
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When mechanics obtain their Master mechanic certifications is a/c comprehension part of it?
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Canada licenses their mechanics. Not US.
With only a few exceptions (Michigan?), anyone with a shoebox full of tools can call themselves a mechanic, even hang a shingle and start their own auto shop.
Smog techs must be approved or licensed by the state, and that state has their own sets of requirements to obtain it AFAIK (California, etc.)
ASE testing and certification is voluntary, and fees are usually paid by the mechanic. Oh sure you might find a few shops that demand employees be ASE certified, even a few that pay for it.....and some give pay increases as the techs gain more certifications.
That's certainly not the rule though.
Most shops seem to treat employees like a used truck. You better come with every option we need already installed, a 5th wheel strapped on your azz, be able to pull a 50ton trailer for months at a time (over limits, over time, and speeding), get 59MPG (unpossible), and if you start getting weak or break you are sent out to pasture to rot, sink up to your hubs in mud.
There is always a line of younger mechanics beating down the doors wanting a job and to take your place.
LOL
Good mechanics are few and far between.....but it sure seems like any mirror fogging knuckle dragger will do, for much of the grunt work. Those who don't know the difference usually don't care about the difference, everyone who wears a shirt with a name patch looks the same.
Same can be said for many shops.
Jeez, my view seems kinda sour.
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Most shops seem to treat employees like a used truck. You better come with every option we need already installed, a 5th wheel strapped on your azz, be able to pull a 50ton trailer for months at a time (over limits, over time, and speeding), get 59MPG (unpossible), and if you start getting weak or break you are sent out to pasture to rot, sink up to your hubs in mud.
There is always a line of younger mechanics beating down the doors wanting a job and to take your place.
LOL
Good mechanics are few and far between.....but it sure seems like any mirror fogging knuckle dragger will do, for much of the grunt work. Those who don't know the difference usually don't care about the difference, everyone who wears a shirt with a name patch looks the same.
Same can be said for many shops. Jeez, my view seems kinda sour.
There is always a line of younger mechanics beating down the doors wanting a job and to take your place.
LOL
Good mechanics are few and far between.....but it sure seems like any mirror fogging knuckle dragger will do, for much of the grunt work. Those who don't know the difference usually don't care about the difference, everyone who wears a shirt with a name patch looks the same.
Same can be said for many shops. Jeez, my view seems kinda sour.
Thanks Ezone. If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
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Sorry, not sorry.
Oddly relevant thread
https://forums.craigslist.org/?act=showThread&forumID=5&ID=270494052&thread=2359 17
Look for replies from K_111 and electrickytech
Oddly relevant thread
https://forums.craigslist.org/?act=showThread&forumID=5&ID=270494052&thread=2359 17
Look for replies from K_111 and electrickytech
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Sorry, not sorry.
Oddly relevant thread
https://forums.craigslist.org/?act=showThread&forumID=5&ID=270494052&thread=2359 17
Look for replies from K_111 and electrickytech
Oddly relevant thread
https://forums.craigslist.org/?act=showThread&forumID=5&ID=270494052&thread=2359 17
Look for replies from K_111 and electrickytech
The manufacturers lobbied for voluntary certs. < K_111 > 2016-04-16 16:33
"They realized in the early eighties only the severely mentally incompetent were likely to work in dealership service departments. People of such low mental prowess would be unlikely to pass any licensing test. Ase certs are just in place to quiet those calling for mechanic licensing.
This was also the time the oem's successfully lobbied for dealer mechanics to be specifically exempt from the fair labor standards act. Goober should be happy to even have a job. If Goob gets a flat rate hourly raise they can easily take it away by reducing the labor time. Overtime? Sorry Goob you have no legal right to overtime. 5 day work week? Not for you Goob.
Now they even added more insult to injury as Goob Jr. is expected to sign on for a 35k student loan for some bogus "technician training" trade school before he gets the privilege of working in some dealership **** hole. Once he finally gets that dealer job the local tool truck guy will likely bend Goob Jr over for another 40K juice loan on some overpriced tools. Then the service manager of the month will likely call Goob Jr. every insult in the world as well as question his gender/sexual orientation on a regular basis. Customers of course will also feel entitled to openly bash Goob Jr. for any manufacturing defects or engineering failures on their cars. The only hope is that Goob Jr. will be so miserable he will fail to reproduce and his dept and incompetence will die with him."
That's a great read: funny, sad, but apperently very true.
Like this line too from electrickytech:
"Just about every part ever on a car is still there, it's just overlaid with computer controls now. It used to be when you rolled down an electric window, a switch handled the job. Now you have a switch that sends a resisted voltage to a ****ing module, then the module operates a relay, and if your lucky you don't turn your head and spit your chewing tobacco onto the window that hasn't moved."
Last edited by Wankenstein; Apr 18, 2016 at 01:51 PM.
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electrickytech is one hell of a mechanic, racer, and writer.
I should stop by his shop and chit chat before he quits.
I should stop by his shop and chit chat before he quits.
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Re: A/C comp running whilst ac green light off in car.
Many apologies for budding in here, but you sound very knowledgeable in the department.
The compressor is always on creating a block of ice. When I press the snowflake green button in the cab and aluminate the light, the compressor turns off. I have also noticed that it sometimes does not turn it off. Both rad fans are running when I press the AC button on in the cab. I had it diagnosed yesterday at the Honda dealer and they said it was the three button controller in the car, I went and got a good known one and put it in there. Now when I press the button to call on the AC the fan turns on properly like it should and turn off when the AC light is off. But it is intermittent and I am getting ticked, what closes the coil in the fuse box under the hood? I'm really just getting into this deeper but I have changed the relay with the one beside it thinking that possibly the relay was stuck together but I am having the same issue. I just recently removed one of the shims behind the clutch plate. I put it back together and turn the controller on so that it blows out the vents and not defroster, put it on high and started the car. When the car started the compressor kicked in immediately without the greenlight being turned on in the car.
It doesn't seem to cycle properly!
The upmost appreciation in advance!
Thank you ezone, I hope you have a fix ...
Thank you Blair... )
The compressor is always on creating a block of ice. When I press the snowflake green button in the cab and aluminate the light, the compressor turns off. I have also noticed that it sometimes does not turn it off. Both rad fans are running when I press the AC button on in the cab. I had it diagnosed yesterday at the Honda dealer and they said it was the three button controller in the car, I went and got a good known one and put it in there. Now when I press the button to call on the AC the fan turns on properly like it should and turn off when the AC light is off. But it is intermittent and I am getting ticked, what closes the coil in the fuse box under the hood? I'm really just getting into this deeper but I have changed the relay with the one beside it thinking that possibly the relay was stuck together but I am having the same issue. I just recently removed one of the shims behind the clutch plate. I put it back together and turn the controller on so that it blows out the vents and not defroster, put it on high and started the car. When the car started the compressor kicked in immediately without the greenlight being turned on in the car.
It doesn't seem to cycle properly!
The upmost appreciation in advance!
Thank you ezone, I hope you have a fix ...
Thank you Blair... )
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I just recently removed one of the shims behind the clutch plate.
When the car started the compressor kicked in immediately without the greenlight being turned on in the car.
When the car started the compressor kicked in immediately without the greenlight being turned on in the car.
It sounds like there's either zero clearance, or the clutch is energized.. Either situation could cause continuous operation.
There MUST be clearance between the clutch plate and pulley (spec is 0.35-0.65 mm). If there is no clearance, the compressor will be forced to run as long as the belt is turning the pulley.
If the clutch is energized causing constant engagement, that's also bad. Remove the compressor clutch relay and see if it releases.
What year car are you dealing with?
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Go back to this.
It sounds like there's either zero clearance, or the clutch is energized.. Either situation could cause continuous operation.
There MUST be clearance between the clutch plate and pulley (spec is 0.35-0.65 mm). If there is no clearance, the compressor will be forced to run as long as the belt is turning the pulley.
If the clutch is energized causing constant engagement, that's also bad. Remove the compressor clutch relay and see if it releases.
What year car are you dealing with?
It sounds like there's either zero clearance, or the clutch is energized.. Either situation could cause continuous operation.
There MUST be clearance between the clutch plate and pulley (spec is 0.35-0.65 mm). If there is no clearance, the compressor will be forced to run as long as the belt is turning the pulley.
If the clutch is energized causing constant engagement, that's also bad. Remove the compressor clutch relay and see if it releases.
What year car are you dealing with?
Hello and thank you for the speedy reply I do appreciate it.
The clutch does disengage with the car off and the shim is back installed and the thickness of it is .60mm. While I had the clutch plate off I cleaned it up with a piece of fine sandpaper to take off the surface rust.
With the car off and the controller in the off position and the green light off on the controller under the radio, when I start the car the AC comes on automatically. It then freezes and won't shut off creating a blockage in the evap coil and or it shuts off and then won't cycle back on correctly (usually when the engine compartment cools down). Honda said that the pressures are good on both sides, the fans are good and the controller is now good as I had an issue with it the other day and have since replaced the controller under the radio. Condenser fan comes on when green light is on and off when green light is off. I've even traded with the very same relays and still the same issue it's not cycling correctly.
I just don't want to have to bring it to the dealer again.
Any ideas with this, much appreciation in advance!!! 😊
Blair
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Sounds like you're gonna need a wiring diagram if the system and some test equipment.
First I'd plug in my scanner because want to know if the PCM is seeing a AC request input and what the AC clutch command status is, at the times the system isn't working correctly.
Does the car have other strange electrical problems? Power/keyless locks funky, dome/entry lights not working right, warning lights on the dash?
First I'd plug in my scanner because want to know if the PCM is seeing a AC request input and what the AC clutch command status is, at the times the system isn't working correctly.
Does the car have other strange electrical problems? Power/keyless locks funky, dome/entry lights not working right, warning lights on the dash?
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Re: A/C Not Cold At Idle Sounds like you're gonna need a wiring diagram if the system and some test equipment.
First I'd plug in my scanner because want to know if the PCM is seeing a AC request input and what the AC clutch command status is, at the times the system isn't working correctly.
Does the car have other strange electrical problems? Power/keyless locks funky, dome/entry lights not working right, warning lights on the dash?
First I'd plug in my scanner because want to know if the PCM is seeing a AC request input and what the AC clutch command status is, at the times the system isn't working correctly.
Does the car have other strange electrical problems? Power/keyless locks funky, dome/entry lights not working right, warning lights on the dash?
Thanks again!
Last edited by lunartic; Jun 5, 2016 at 03:32 PM. Reason: Did self diagnosis.
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I had it diagnosed yesterday at the Honda dealer and they said
I actually achieved a self diagnosis on the control unit and nothing came up flashing on the recirc button.
A good wiring diagram would show this
it keeps throwing a PO139 for the O2 sensor even after it has been changed. I just checked with my OBD two sensor scanner and it came up with a PO139 (02)
Use only Denso or NTK sensor whichever brand was installed from the factory. Probably a Denso.....go to their website and look up their part number for the sensor then search for that part number.
and a PO128 something with the thermostat range performance.
Even with the cab fan controller off and the AC green button off the AC compressor is on.
The answer to this question determines the next questions LOL
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Did you get your money back? Most people don't like paying for wrong answers.
That's only one of three control units involved in operating the AC.
A good wiring diagram would show this
If you have an O2 sensor installed instead of an AF sensor, this happens.
Use only Denso or NTK sensor whichever brand was installed from the factory. Probably a Denso.....go to their website and look up their part number for the sensor then search for that part number.
Has the thermostat been replaced yet?
Does the clutch release when you remove its relay?
The answer to this question determines the next questions LOL
That's only one of three control units involved in operating the AC.
A good wiring diagram would show this
If you have an O2 sensor installed instead of an AF sensor, this happens.
Use only Denso or NTK sensor whichever brand was installed from the factory. Probably a Denso.....go to their website and look up their part number for the sensor then search for that part number.
Has the thermostat been replaced yet?
Does the clutch release when you remove its relay?
The answer to this question determines the next questions LOL
Hi there and thanks.
The thermostat was changed about a year ago and yes the clutch opens up and disengages from the flywheel pulley of compressor once relay is removed.
NEXT???
Hehe thanks.
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Hey, ignore what I said about the P0139 and the AF sensor...I was thinking of problems with the front sensor not the rear sensor.
BUt the fault code is newer than the thermostat, yes?
Aftermarket thermostats are a crapshoot, might be junk already.
Now you need to test to see what's turning on the relay when it should not be on.
The PCM is in control of the AC clutch and fans.
The PCM does this when it sees a "AC REQUEST" signal which comes from the control panel on the dash, and that signal goes through the MICU before it reaches the PCM.
If the compressor clutch relay is turned on, both radiator fans should be turned on at the same time.
Does this happen every time or will the compressor stay on without the fans running?
The thermostat was changed about a year ago
Aftermarket thermostats are a crapshoot, might be junk already.
and yes the clutch opens up and disengages from the flywheel pulley of compressor once relay is removed.
The PCM is in control of the AC clutch and fans.
The PCM does this when it sees a "AC REQUEST" signal which comes from the control panel on the dash, and that signal goes through the MICU before it reaches the PCM.
If the compressor clutch relay is turned on, both radiator fans should be turned on at the same time.
Does this happen every time or will the compressor stay on without the fans running?
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Hey, ignore what I said about the P0139 and the AF sensor...I was thinking of problems with the front sensor not the rear sensor.
BUt the fault code is newer than the thermostat, yes?
Aftermarket thermostats are a crapshoot, might be junk already.
Now you need to test to see what's turning on the relay when it should not be on.
The PCM is in control of the AC clutch and fans.
The PCM does this when it sees a "AC REQUEST" signal which comes from the control panel on the dash, and that signal goes through the MICU before it reaches the PCM.
If the compressor clutch relay is turned on, both radiator fans should be turned on at the same time.
Does this happen every time or will the compressor stay on without the fans running?
BUt the fault code is newer than the thermostat, yes?
Aftermarket thermostats are a crapshoot, might be junk already.
Now you need to test to see what's turning on the relay when it should not be on.
The PCM is in control of the AC clutch and fans.
The PCM does this when it sees a "AC REQUEST" signal which comes from the control panel on the dash, and that signal goes through the MICU before it reaches the PCM.
If the compressor clutch relay is turned on, both radiator fans should be turned on at the same time.
Does this happen every time or will the compressor stay on without the fans running?
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Both fans are running when AC button is off and controller switch is in the off position.
On my scanner I would probably see the PCM data list as "AC request = yes", so I'll run with that thought for a minute.
Somewhere, the signal wire between the control panel and the MICU would seem to be grounded, causing a false AC request signal being sent to the MICU then to the PCM.
Has the car ever been punched in the nose? (crash = potential wiring problems)
With the engine running and compressor stuck on, unplug the pressure switch connector (on top of drier) and see if the fans and compressor shuts off.
What trim level is this car?
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Ok it sounds like something is still telling the PCM to run the AC even though your control panel is turned off....
On my scanner I would probably see the PCM data list as "AC request = yes", so I'll run with that thought for a minute.
Somewhere, the signal wire between the control panel and the MICU would seem to be grounded, causing a false AC request signal being sent to the MICU then to the PCM.
Has the car ever been punched in the nose? (crash = potential wiring problems)
With the engine running and compressor stuck on, unplug the pressure switch connector (on top of drier) and see if the fans and compressor shuts off.
What trim level is this car?
On my scanner I would probably see the PCM data list as "AC request = yes", so I'll run with that thought for a minute.
Somewhere, the signal wire between the control panel and the MICU would seem to be grounded, causing a false AC request signal being sent to the MICU then to the PCM.
Has the car ever been punched in the nose? (crash = potential wiring problems)
With the engine running and compressor stuck on, unplug the pressure switch connector (on top of drier) and see if the fans and compressor shuts off.
What trim level is this car?
I just unplugged the connection above the dryer, both fans turned off and the compressor also disengaged. LX Se
It has I had two minor front Enders but this was going on before .
Last edited by lunartic; Jun 5, 2016 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Unplug drier
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You did say you replaced the control panel because the dealer said it was bad?
If you got a used one, it may be bad too.
How about.....get the system operating (stuck on) then remove the panel and unplug it, see if the AC and fans turn off.
If you got a used one, it may be bad too.
How about.....get the system operating (stuck on) then remove the panel and unplug it, see if the AC and fans turn off.
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OK well that is the only thing I have not done I was just hoping and praying that the one I got from the wreckers was good the car looked in good shape it was smocked on the rear end. Well everything should shut off when I disconnect that controller correct but please bear with me I wish there was a better way of communicating here. I have to open this up again should take me about 10 minutes thanks bro !
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everything should shut off when I disconnect that controller correct
(the pressure switch and thermal protector and a bunch of engine compartment wiring lie between the panel and the MICU)
The panel can become a failure item as they get older....
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OK well that is the only thing I have not done I was just hoping and praying that the one I got from the wreckers was good the car looked in good shape it was smocked on the rear end. Well everything should shut off when I disconnect that controller correct but please bear with me I wish there was a better way of communicating here. I have to open this up again should take me about 10 minutes thanks bro !
Ok here it is. I have unplugged it and everything still runs. Car is running AC is puking out ice cubes it's freezing in here and the lower controller is disconnected.
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Lower controller? You mean the 3 switches???
Unplug the big connectors behind the dials.
Unplug the big connectors behind the dials.
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Yes I was referring to the three switches below the radio research Aircon and rear defroster. When I unplug that controller nothing happened. When I disconnected the two big plugs from behind the rheostats the three large dials when I unplugged the top one everything stopped blower motor fans and I'm assuming the compressor .
