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Here is some history on this car. It has 220,000 miles. I recently tuned up with plugs, plug wires and dist cap (year ago). Now has new plugs again (NGK). Car was having overheating problems and losing some water. I replaced cooling fan sensors and thermostat did not fix. I replaced water pump (and timing belt) and seemed to help. But cooling fans would not come on until car was overheated. So I wired them constant and no issues. Then it began starting hard and antifreeze smell in exhaust so I new it was head gasket. Replaced gasket and had head job done. After that everything seemed fine. Then after about a week or 2 it began starting harder each time. Then it wouldnt start at all and had excess fuel in cylinders. Checked spark, timing, etc. I cleaned and checked injectors and they appear to be working fine. When I can finally get it to start it runs great. So I read spark might be weak so bought new coil. I bought an Accel high output coil. I put it in and it started right away but now I think it was because cylinders finally dried out. Now its back to flooding. It will start and blow some light smoke then runs great. Once I turn it off it struggles to start again and appears flooded. The longer it sits the worse it is. When it does start it has some raw gas smell in the exhaust. I have read many things online but none that seem to fit my situation because once the car starts it runs great. As good as it has run since I bought it. I am struggling with this car. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 
Rep Power: 518

Let the car sit overnight so you know the engine is stone cold and it is going to be damn hard to start.

Using a good computer scanner, plug it in and read live engine data before starting the engine.

See what the ECT and IAT read when the engine is stone cold.
They both should be within just a couple degrees of the ambient temperature.
If ECT is reading way lower than ambient, you may have found the problem.

 
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Will do. Thanks!!

 
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I did this. ECT was 73 and IAT was 81. Outside temp is upper 70s. Seems fine. Started the car. I had to crank a long time and it spit and sputtered and smoked and finally started. After that it ran perfect. It appears to be loading up with fuel in the cylinders as it was doing before the new coil.

 
Rep Power: 518

It smoked BEFORE you got it started?
What color is the smoke?


Ok, have you checked the 5 places raw fuel could enter from? 4 injectors, might they dribble fuel after the engine is shut off, overnight?

How about the fuel pressure regulator, does it bleed fuel into the vacuum line while it sits?

 
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Probably should actually make certain it really is fuel in the cylinders and not coolant.

 
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I have cleaned and ran the injectors and they seem to function properly. I do not know how to tell if they are shutting off properly. I have some doubts. Not sure how to check that?

Do I just check for fuel in the vacuum line? I do believe I am losing fuel pressure after the engine is shut off. I have cracked the line and did not have pressure hours later.

 
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I am checking smoke each time it starts. When I had a blown head gasket I could smell coolant for sure. Dont really smell that now.

Also when I pull the plugs they have are wet and smell like fuel.

Again I am not 100% sure about anything. This car is baffling to say the least.

 
Rep Power: 518

Gotta be able to see them.


(I would actually have a fuel pressure gauge attached to the system long before this. I would know if my pressures were correct or not. I would know how long the system holds residual pressure after the engine is shut off.)


Here's what I might do if I were working in a driveway:
Prepare, take off the hardware necessary to remove the injector rail and injectors as a complete unit. I might even take them out JUST to make sure they will come out quickly, easily, and without fuss when I need them to come out. Reinstall.

Get the engine to operating temperature (radiator fan cycles a couple times), shut it off.
Pull the fuel rail and injectors out of the manifold.
Watch for drips of fuel at the tips of the injectors. (Note: drips will evaporate, so you may not see much this way.)

Leave them in a position where any fuel drips will not enter the manifold.
Leave them out of the engine overnight.

In the morning, reinstall them and see how well it starts and runs.


Pretty much, but leave that vac line detached overnight too.


By leaving the line disconnected AND the injectors up out of the manifold, there should not be any possibility of anything seeping raw fuel and collecting inside the engine overnight, and (in theory) it should start up easily the next day.

If it starts easily, then it's just a matter of figuring out where the dribbles really went, and (probably) replace parts.
If it still starts hard, and it's really due to fuel, then maybe something computer related?

This IS normal and natural IF the pressure (and raw fuel) actually returns into the gas tank through the fuel pump.

Residual fuel pressure should be maintained at least until the engine is cooled off. The actual pressure may vary, but it should remain high enough (PSI) to prevent fuel boil in the lines as long as the engine remains hot.

 
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This all makes perfect sense. Hadnt thought of that. Never experienced anything like this before. I will do just that. I really appreciate all of your help. I can fix most issues but this one is killing me.

 
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I do believe it is fixed now. Cleaned the IACV and have not had any issues since. Starts up easy and doesnt smoke. Dont understand all I know about why but I am just glad it is working fine. Thank you again for your help.

Well I was wrong. Car did fine for a few days then started sucking coolant again. This car is such a pain. Once it gets hot it seems to suck coolant and doesnt want to start. Once I get it started and blow coolant out and shut it off its starts fine each time until it gets hot. Again brand new head job. IACV looks good and gasket looks good but this seemed to fix problem temporarily. I am going to pull it again today and examine further. I am loosing coolant and exhaust smells of coolant at started plus a lot of white smoke.

 
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One other note, when I disconnected the small coolant line going to IACV it had lots of pressure on it and sprayed coolant everywhere. That seems odd to me.

 
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drove the car in the shop and let it sit 30 minutes. Took off breather and there is coolant in the throttle body. It appears to be leaking from the same area the IACV attaches. It looks like a small round place that is held in by a screw on the inside of the throttle body. I am guessing a seal is under that? That appears to be where coolant is coming from. I am now going to tear the throttle body apart.

 
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Update. Took the throttle body apart again. Gasket for the IACV did not appear to be leaking but I put gasket sealer on it anyway. No luck. Still sucking coolant into throttle body. The screw I thought I saw inside was just another line coming into the throttle body down low. It had coolant in it. When I start the car it coughs and smokes for a minute and clears up and runs fine. If I throttle it up high it starts smoking again. The line coming into the throttle bottle turns down and goes into a black square looking box or canister. Appears to be a vacuum canister of some kind? I have no idea what it is but this could be the source of my coolant? It looks like coolant residue and fresh coolant all around this inlet. I am stumped on this.

 
Rep Power: 518

You are supposed to relieve cooling system pressure before taking coolant hoses off.
You coulda got an eyefull of hot antifreeze, that's not cool at all!


So..NOW the liquid you found in the cylinders is likely antifreeze?
Scenario: Antifreeze wets the plugs on the first crank so they can't fire, then fuel floods the cylinders because the plugs can't fire.

Makes sense to me now.


Thinking about the throttle body, yours sticks straight up and has the IAC attached to the front side of it? (good thing you posted your VIN in the other thread LOL, there's 3 different intake setups to choose from without it.)

About the only thing there on the throttle body I can think of that contains coolant is the chamber in the IAC. You need to replace the rubber gasket for the IAC (and remove the silicone) before doing anything else. Part# 16456-P2A-003, under $7 at a Honda dealer (it may need to be special ordered though).

 
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Yes it is coolant in the cylinders. It is coming from the throttle body. The IAC oring / gasket is in great condition but I added some silicone to be sure there is no leaks. From the condition of the IAC internally it does not appear to have ever leaked. Even after silicone I am still getting coolant into the throttle body. It appears to be coming from the line coming into the bottom of the throttle body right below the IAC. As I mentioned in a previous post it appears that this line is coming from a vacuum canister or something similar? I have no idea what this is.

 
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Is it in this parts diagram?

 
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No it is not. The line comes out of the bottom of the throttle body directly under the IAC valve. The line turns straight down and attaches to the black box which is located beside the thermostat housing. I cannot see it very well because the intake manifold is in the way.

 
Rep Power: 518

Crankcase breather and PCV system? Shouldn't be coolant in that...

If the pipe assembly (#5) had rotted through between the 2 tubes, that would dump antifreeze into the breather tubes or the crankcase.. I haven't seen that happen to any so far.

 
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Well that is the part. A crankcase breather. I am wondering now if all of my coolant problem that leaked coolant into the throttle body has ran down into the breather. The line is at the bottom and would funnel all coolant to the breather. And now the vacuum is sucking it back up? sounds reasonable. I had thought about the line issue. However I would think I would have external leaking somewhere if that was the case. And the lines appear to be in perfect condition. Now that I know what that part is I will attempt to remove it and see if it has coolant in it. Once again thank you for the assistance. The drawings are extremely helpful.

 
Rep Power: 518

I see what you mean now.

I guess if the manifold fitting is in the right place it could let antifreeze enter the lines and collect in the chamber. I'd also think that if coolant got that far, coolant would be likely to get into the crankcase and oil too.

 
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Had to work late so no working on car tonight. Been thinking about it though. Seems to be losing coolant. I have had to add several times. If that is the case my breather theory isnt the culprit. I will check the lines and breather and see what I find.