Grimlock

I've done several searches over the last few days in an attempt to figure this out, and have been unsuccessful in finding a scenario that matches the one I'm currently in.



My A/C went out last weekend on my 96 civic LX while returning from a road trip. after doing some investigating here's what I've found so far:

1. The system is holding pressure. Static pressure is ~100 psi on both the high and low sides. when attempting to engage the a/c system from inside the car, these conditions remain the same.
2. I've checked the fuse box next to the battery and under the steering column. My understanding is that 17 under the dash, and two(cant recall description of these two fuses) under the hood are related to the a/c. Is this correct?
3. moved around the relays for the compressor and the condenser fan. No changes to current situation. I have not yet attempted to jump the relays.
4. No awkward noises were heard before the system stopped working. I was in the car and pushed the button for the a/c. the a/c button does not light up when pressed.
5. about a week earlier, the #4 setting for the fan (max setting) stopped working. 1-3 still function properly.

for those of you with any experience with this, what typically could be the cause for this, besides what I've listed?

Thanks in advance for the help.

Grimlock

Moderator this is in the wrong section.please move

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Moved.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Is your blower fan working now ??

The system will not allow the a/c to work without an operating blower fan.

Grimlock

Yes. Blower works. Heater works. Also, I had read that some people will check the front and rear defrost. FWIW Those are working correctly also

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Are your radiator fans working when the AC is turned on?

Grimlock

I know the radiator fan turns on when the engine is getting up to temp. I revved up the engine yesterday to make sure the fan came on. I cannot recall if the blower was running or not.

Grimlock

Update: The radiator fan will come on whether the blower is running or not.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm... a lot of people are having this issue right now and it's most likely the clutch coil.

Grimlock

Can this be replaced individually, or will I have to replace the entire compressor? What's involved with the replacement?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

You can replace just the coil. However, you may want to test it first to ensure it's the coil. I would take it to a shop and tell them you suspect the coil is faulty unless you have the electrical tools to measure resistance. It's #11 here:

http://www.hondapartscheap.com/find-...20%28SANDEN%29

About the hardest part of the job is removing/replacing the two snap rings that hold it together. You can attempt it for sure

Grimlock

Thanks for the info. The forum has been a great help so far.

Is a multimeter all I need to test the resistance?

Also, If the clutch coil is bad, why would it cause both the condenser fan and the green light inside to not function correctly?

I've done quite a bit of engine work on my other car, but this car is a newer one for me. My A/C work is also minimal(I just had to replace the compressor on the T/A) hence the 120 questions. As long as I know what direction to go, I should be able to handle it.

Thanks again for the help

ezone

Is a multimeter all I need to test the resistance?

Yes.

Also, If the clutch coil is bad, why would it cause both the condenser fan and the green light inside to not function correctly?
It won't. You sound like it may have a problem on the control side.

Answer this: When you turn the AC button ON, does the condensor fan come on in the engine compartment?



Wait up a minute. You stated this here happened:
Is this the exact moment the AC quit? (DUH)

Fix this first. The AC controller gets a signal through the fan speed resistor set.
THEN see what happens.




No?
Then I'd start with fuses, then maybe checks of the PCM data (AC request signal Y/N? This splits the system in "half" for diagnosis.) a wiring diagram, test light and DVOM, and I might start at the HVAC control unit, depending on what else I noticed or what other answers I got.

(Did not do any research for this answer.)


HTH

Lordsin

Why not buy a junk yard ac compressor for 25 dollars? Seems cheaper, and less work than just replacing the clutch field set. Some have a bad item exchange policy . My ac is going out too I think my bearings are gonna give out soon lol so I been shopping around.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

^ Because a compressor will be a lot more than 25 bucks from a junkyard for an OEM. Even if they pulled it off a car. If you get an aftermarket they are JUNK. Your better off to replace the coil for around 100 bucks and be done with it.

ezone

How about not wasting that money until you KNOW what the real problem is?
Someone is gonna be pissed when they finally figure out the problem still ain't fixed.


Naaah, that would make too much sense.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Haha yea your right... Make sure you test the coil

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I found this website today that will get you started:

http://www.ehow.com/how_7649305_tell...essor-bad.html

ezone

Wow. I cringed several times. From a technical standpoint, that article contains quite a bit of fail.




It's like someone (who really doesn't know much about cars in the first place) wrote that article based entirely on their experience with a single car, and assumed every other car on the road will be exactly the same.

Management thinking: "All cars have 4 wheels, therefore they must all be exactly the same."

/nitpick

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Haha yea.. there are a few things on there that I thought were off base too. Including #1 where it says the compressor clutch won't engage if the battery is under 12.5 volts. But, I decided to run some tests on mine just to see (seeing I have a 7 year old battery)

1. I checked the battery without starting the car, after it's been off for 2 days. The battery read 12.5 volts. Good enough for me.
2. I started the car with the "AC" off, the battery read 14.59 volts, good enough for me.
3. I turned on the air condition, and it worked!!! The battery read 13.58 volts, meh.. lots of draw from the fans + compressor.
4. I left the car running, slowly the voltage on the battery dropped to around 12. Of course idling, when I revved it up past 2000 the voltage went back up over 14.
5. I turned the "AC" off while it was working, and turned it back on. The clutch failed to engage. The voltage had charged back up to 12.8 but was slowly dropping back to 12. It may have gone lower had I given it some time.
6. I cycled the AC about 10 times, each time checking for the clutch to engage and it will not engage at all. I even revved the engine up to bring the voltage above 14 and then started it, but the clutch will not engage. It has nothing to do with system voltage.

Anyway, it's probably irrelevant, but I did have a few minutes here to tinker with it while the kids ate.

ezone

You got AC problems too?
Did the fans run when you pushed the AC button?
This sounds like I would probably start my checks at the clutch relay.




I should start making videos of this crap I do every day. Wait, nobody would understand why though.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Youve been helping me with my AC problems for a week now? I'm all over like 3 threads. Mine is most likely the coil.

Ive changed the relay and done tons of testing. Yes my fans turn on... refrigerant has lots of charge. I'm going to replace the coil when I feel like it. I'm not having major issues without AC so I'm not overly concerned about it.

ezone

Oh.....Um....Sorry.
I guess it's like seeing so many different cars all the time, posting just becomes a blur.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

No doubt

Grimlock

The fan switch went out about a week prior to the system going out completely. I've checked the fuses for the AC system, and all appear to be in working order. How many fuses does the AC system depend on? I know of three that I have checked multiple times. If the problems is the PCM signal, how do I check that?

Also, what should the resistance of the clutch coil be? Should the fan be running when I check it?

Thanks.

ezone

Dash Fuses 17
Engine compartment fuses 47, 56, that's all I show in the diagram.
Field coil (general) 2-4 ohms. I did not look this up.
PCM checks, you need a good scanner with more datalist than any generic unit can give.




You still haven't answered this:
See, if you can't figure out how to answer a simple question like this, then I can't help diagnose your problem, and you may be doomed to the mercy of the parts cannon.

Handy pic of a parts cannon:



After you throw a compressor at it and you find it STILL doesn't work.......

I'm going to guess you need a control panel for the heater and AC.
Throw that at the car and see if it fixes it.

/half serious

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

LoL that parts cannon keeps showing up... I don't mind throwing parts at it if they are super, super cheap. Sometimes you get lucky, 99% of the time you will get mad.

ezone

I can't afford to waste the time doing stuff that doesn't solve the problem (even though it happens sometimes).
My time is my commodity, I'm worth anywhere from $2-$10 per minute to the shop.

Grimlock

The condenser fan never comes on.

the heater appears to be working just fine when I switch over to it

The three fuses you listed are the ones I have checked.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

hmm...