WaryDriver

I changed my D16Y7's manual transmission's fluid for the first time doing it myself. Have you ever seen old transmission oil this color? It looked like really old engine oil to me but don't know a way of finding out what the previous owner or serviceman had put in there. The new fluid I put in was Honda's MTF. Since the old oil was so bad, should I change its fluid again after I drive a week or so? How would you describe the old oil by the pictures?

I dropped some magnets in the old oil to attract metal fragments and found some. However, I don't know what's a normal find and not normal since this was my first time. Found little fragments here and there.

New vs old...

old...

metal fragment gathering...

old, again...

MelJ

Metal fragments aren't a good sign. Could be parts of the gears or synchros. When was the last time it was changed? If it had been in there forever, that color doesn't seem like anything out of the ordinary to me. I changed my MTF a few weeks after I got my car and the fluid looked just like the stuff that came out. One of the other guys should be able to add to this. I personally would run through the new fluid for a while. How was the shifting prior to changing the fluid?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

either way, yeah, you can use an equivalent engine oil, since the honda trans uses a lot lighter fluid than other trans.
some care needed on the selection, though. not all oils will work.

ezone

Regular engine oil used to be called for by Honda, ordinary 10w30 or 10w40. Not sure when that stopped and they went to their MTF (which still looks surprisingly like engine oil).

So it could easily be regular engine oil. It would probably take a zillion miles to turn it that dark though.

WaryDriver

Reverse, 1st, and 5th were hardest to shift to in that order. But now it's smoother shifting, Reverse still being the least smooth. I might even change it again in weeks.

Why is it that Reverse gear is hardest? I always wait stopped for some time before shifting to Reverse. But it's often tricky finding Reverse and will make that grinding noise when it hasnt been selected. Is there a technique, like shifting to another gear and then to Reverse that will help?

MelJ

Excessive spin down time means there's an issue. There's a set amount of time allowable. Don't know what Honda says for our Civics though in regards to that time frame. I'd assume 5 seconds is just a general rule of thumb.

ezone

I have never seen a spec for this, AFAIK it's just a judgement thing and common sense. Spindown time will vary from car to car, due to the weight of the spinning clutch disc and the preload of the bearings on the shafts that spin, but the time shouldn't be unreasonable.

If reverse grinds after the clutch has been pushed down for several seconds, then there are shafts still spinning---the clutch isn't releasing fully.
If it is just tough to engage and doesn't try to grind, then its an issue inside the trans. Most people just live with the little inconvenience rather than pay to split open the trans.

If the clutch drags hard enough it can make the car want to creep when it's in a gear.
The other forward gears may be hard to engage because the blocker rings in the syncros have to do the job of putting the brakes on the spinning shafts (a synchronizer synchronizes the speed of a gear to its hub and shaft so the hub can slide over its teeth and engage smoothly). If the clutch is dragging, it can take a lot of pressure on the shift lever to stop the shafts from spinning. If the trans was new, the pressure it takes to engage the forward gears would be roughly equal in all, but wear and tear in the trans will make things vary from gear to gear......so we are back to the question: Does reverse grind when trying to shift it?

Forward gears' teeth are always constantly meshed and engagement is done by the sliding hubs and syncros. Reverse is different.
Reverse doesn't have the fancy syncros and hubs to make it easy.
Reverse gear is not in mesh until it is shifted manually, you are actually sliding one gear to engage another gear.
If the teeth happen to line up perfectly when the shafts stop spinning, the teeth fit together smoothly and life is good.
To help with that, the teeth that have to engage have points ground into the sides of the teeth (when new) so there isn't flat edges of the teeth trying to butt together, but every time someone grinds the gear a little bit of those points gets ground off. (This COULD be the source of magnetic material that was picked up on the magnet.)
Now it gets tougher and tougher to get the teeth to mesh on the first try.

Did that help any?

EDIT: "Reverse and will make that grinding noise "
The clutch is dragging. Problem.

WaryDriver

I checked for clutch drag the way MelJ said and that isn't the problem, there is no clutch drag. That has happened but rarely, hardly ever. Sorry, I said the wrong thing when I said grinding noise and misled both of you. Its not that kind of noise.

Here is an accurate description. When I want to shift to Reverse, I really have to thrash the shift lever into R making a swift thrash when it does goes into R. Sometimes it's difficult to tell after shifting whether it went all the way into Reverse or hanged short of the R gear. A lot of times it hangs before shifting into gear.

Yes, R is tough to engage.

ezone

Ok then, it sounds like the gears have lost the points off the sides of the teeth, and it's now like butting up 2 flat edges hoping for a mesh.
It's just wear (ground the gear a few too many times in the past), and while most people figure out how to get around the issue and live with it, the rest just beat the hell out of their shifters, cuss a lot, and think the cars are all junk.

In a basic sense, you have to get at least one of the gears for reverse to rotate inside the trans-- so the teeth line up-- before the gear teeth will mesh together and let the shifter drop into the gear.......

Here's a few methods to try:

1) If it won't go into R, then go to 1st and back to R, then try 2nd and back to R, etc. until it WILL go into R.

2) If it won't go into R, then go to neutral, let the clutch out, push the clutch pedal, try again.

3) Shift to R, hold pressure on the shifter with your hand, and s-l-o-w-l-y let the clutch pedal up, a half-inch or so, just far enough for the shifter to finish going into the gear.
(Notes: If you let the pedal up too far/too fast, it will grind the gear some more, ouch!
If the car moves or the engine drags down instead of feeling the shifter going into gear, then it was already in the gear.)
Once the shifter goes into gear---push the pedal to the floor again so you aren't dragging the clutch, and then drive backwards normally. (If you normally drive backwards, LOL.)

HTH