Rep Power: 205

Haven't been on here for awhile. Sorry guys. A lot has happened in the past year or two. My father recently passed away...but that's neither here or there.

Anyhow, I'm hoping you guys can help me out again like you've always have. Yesterday I noticed a palm size of oil but as I looked closer I noticed a some green substance along with the tiny puddle. Great! It's coolant. Hoping it's not from my car (I had a few guests over at my place) I moved my car to another spot. Check it just now (6:15pm) and noticed a drip of oil on the ground. I jacked up the car and looked underneath and saw this on the left side of the oil pan where the water pump is: You can't really see it but there is definitely coolant present where the oil residue is along the water pump cover.





So, here's my question: What could possibly be causing the oil leak? And is the coolant present with the oil a sign of a broken rod? Sorry for the dumb questions. Would this be an easy fix?

TIA guys.

 
Rep Power: 235

Most likely a bad headgasket with both oil and coolant present. Or you have an oil leak (most likely a gasket) and a bad waterpump. Any overheating?

 
Rep Power: 205

Wassup Lazlong...how's it going?

No overheating issue whatsoever. Okay, as much as I'd hate to redo the water pump (just getting to it is a PITA) I'll look it over this weekend. And while I'm doing that I'll take a look at the headgasket though I replaced that last year with a new one...or did it? I can't remember.

Anyhow, thanks for your input.

 
Rep Power: 235

Good to have ya back. Keep us posted.

 
Rep Power: 205

I started taking off the drive belts but before I delve even further (head gasket removal) I want to ask this: Is overheating the only sign of a bad head gasket?

If so, well...that's not what I'm experiencing so do I even have to remove the head gasket?

Or a better question would be, if overheating is not my issue could coolant as pictured in my initial post be another sign of a bad head gasket? Should I check the water pump first before even attempting to remove the head gasket?

Also, is there another way of removing the coolant from the water pump cuz last year when I did the whole timing belt + water pump + drive belts DIY, I recall A LOT of coolant pouring from the water pump.

 
Rep Power: 235

Overheating is the most common symptom but, you can have a bad headgasket without overheating.

Check the water pump first. Look for an oil leak while in there (cam seal, crank seal, etc.)

 
Rep Power: 205

I did a thorough eye inspection of the outer engine where the head meets the block for lack of a better term and I don't see any leaks. I do, however, see most of the oil gunk build up is mostly below that by the oil container...possibly the seal? But that still doesn't explain the coolant dripping from the timing belt cover.

Which leads me to believe it just may be the water pump that's failing or rather leaking somewhere thereabouts.

So, in order to get to the water pump must I go through the whole aligning the cams again and what not, and removing the drive pulley. Oh how much I despised taking that thing off.

 
Rep Power: 205

Okay, so I spent all day yesterday tearing down the lower portion and doing a thorough inspection to locate the root of the leak (oil & coolant) and here is what I discovered:

Here is where I noticed the coolant and oil leak...of course, at the time it had the lower timing belt cover (see initial post w/pic).


Coolant by the tensioner? And not by the water pump...weird.


More coolant by the sensor but probably residual from pic# 2


Noticed dried up coolant by this part (sorry don't know the name of part pic'd) in the lower part behind the intake manifold


Then saw this coolant drip forming...why there? See pic below of what the actual part is. What is that?



Now, thinking the seal going bad on the oil pan/container/wateva you call was the root of the oil leak I saw this little sucker. What is this thing? Btw, the oil filter is not leaking:


I'm stumped as to what I should do? I'm thinking of replacing the water pump (again) and replacing the oil pan seal/gasket but that doesn't explain the oil drip in the last pic and the coolant drip 2nd to last pic.

So, looking at the pics what would you say is causing the leak (oil & coolant)?

I could really use your help guys.

 
Rep Power: 205

Okay, I just took another look and found the root of the coolant leak in pic # 5 in post #8...and here it is:



But that still doesn't explain the coolant by the tensioner.

 
Rep Power: 812

i just fixed a leak from a busted upper radiator hose on our accord. i first noticed a huge pool of coolant on the ground, then i opened the hood and saw coolant EVERYWHERE all over the fans, battery, trans, and even some on the headlamp and driver side timing area. i thought the water pump blew up finally. then i decided to turn the engine on and rev the car, i notice a pin hole leak in the radiator hose but it is small enough that the pressure is squirting coolant all over the place. i fixed the hose and all the leaks went away. so first make sure its not just a hose squirting coolant.

 
Rep Power: 205

Sup GB...long time...what do you think about that oil leak/drip in the last pic in post #8? What is that black triangular thingy?

 
Rep Power: 812

is that the oil/air separator? pcv housing. not sure tho i cant tell exactly what it is

 
Rep Power: 205

I just looked it up and you're pretty much dead on. It's the oil breather chamber. Man, I really don't want to replace this cuz it looks like a PITA to get to. But I may have to since there's so much oil build up. What do you guys think? Is it worth fixing? I don't think it'll affect the performance let alone damage the engine right?

I think the bigger concern is the oil gasket on the oil pan and the coolant leak by the timing belt/water pump.

 
Rep Power: 235

Yeah, I think that's the oil/air separator. The other one looks like the thermostat housing.

BTW: Don't use FRAM oil filters, they suck. I know they're easy to use and cheap but, they're pretty worthless over a couple thousand miles.

 
Rep Power: 812

the breather chamber is important too. without an airtight seal, the pcv system will not work and eventually cause engine damage.

 
Rep Power: 205

Wow! I think this guy found the root of my oil leak: Sounds just like mine!

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...-oil-halp.html

 
Rep Power: 205

So, I got the oil pan off and saw oil was indeed leaking from the cam seal. The manual says you can remove the cam seal without taking out the oil pump. Yeah, right! Hell no you can't. That thing is sealed in there. I tried cutting the thing with an exacto knife and it's a no go.

At this point, I have no choice but to remove the oil pump and again the service manual makes it sound like all you have to do is unscrew the bolts holding the oil pump (which I did) and no way that thing's coming off. For starters, it's sealed in there tight and even if I was able to pry it loose you it won't come off completely because you have to slide it off the crankshaft rod (lack of a better term) where the pulley bolt screws into. But you can't unless you remove the bottom torque mount and pry lose the AC so you have enough room the slide the oil pump off the crankshaft rod.

I was this close to giving it and just taking it to the dealer but then I've come so far and really want to get this done.

On another note, when I poked the cam seal I noticed coolant mixed in with oil. What could this mean? I really hope my head gasket isn't warped/leaking. If it is I'm calling my mechanic to perform the job.

 
Rep Power: 812

sounds like a big mess sorry man. just dont go prying stuff off with a screwdriver or you could damage the mating surface and then it will leak when you put it back together.

 
Rep Power: 285

Coolant and oil mixed together is a sign of a small leak in the head gasket, the best way to confirm would be renting a gas analyzer from autozone and testing the hydrocarbon levels in the radiator.

 
Rep Power: 205

Update:

After taking off the lower engine mount off (a.k.a. rear engine stiffener & front mount bracket) I was able to finally get the oil pump off. Removing the lower engine torque mount is a MUST if you want to remove the oil pump. Well, that is for 1998 LX automatics. Fearing the engine would drop if I removed the lower torque mount I used my jack & a block of wood under the oil pan to support the engine from falling but later found out the upper engine torque mount was enough to support the engine.

Here is what I discovered: Matt_75 (see post #16) was correct in saying the oil leak that I was experiencing was due to the o-ring.



Now the next problem I had to address was locating the source of the coolant leak (see pic below):



And I believe I've found the answer (see pic below): I noticed a tiny trace of coolant residue all along the edge of the water pump and when I removed the water pump I saw that the o-ring was flush and flat like paper. I've never seen anything like this in all my years of removing parts on a car or motorcycle, or even any household appliances. So, I'm gonna make an educated guess that the o-ring has gone bad. Comparing it to the original water pump o-ring (yes, I still kept it and boy am I glad I did) the o-ring should somewhat protrude out so when you install the water pump the o-ring creates a seal between the two matting surfaces. In this case the o-ring was so flat & flushed coolant was sipping through.







COMPARISON: Original water pump on the left





Now that I've discovered the origin of the problem I can put everything back together. Here is what I'm replacing:

Water Pump O-Ring (use OEM): Mine came with the aftermarket water pump I ordered which sucks
Oil Pump O-Ring
Oil Pump Cam Seal
Dip stick O-ring
Left & Right lower front mount (lower Torque Mount Rubber thingy)- not necessary but mine is all torn and I figured I'd replace it while I was down there.
Radiator Lower Hose and Clamp
Oil Pan Gasket
Oil Pan (the old gasket is caked onto the pan it's not even worth trying to take it off)

I believe that takes care of all the leaks (coolant & oil). If I run into any problems I'll let you guys know.

I should have done a DIY but tackling this job was kinda a PITA but am glad I found the problem.

 
Rep Power: 812

wow those o-rings are terrible. i have seen flattening which is pretty common after many heat/cold cycles, but yours are just mangled. it almost looks like the oil pump was assembled wrong from the factory.

 
Rep Power: 205

Update: Got all the parts in Friday, and spent 12 hours yesterday and 6 hours today putting everything back together. Well, she's all bolted/torqued, aligned, gasket sealed back together.

I'll pour some engine oil and flush the coolant/radiator (although there's no coolant in it right now) tomorrow.

And I'll give you my final thoughts about replacing the oil pump/oil pump o-ring/belly pan/issues I've discovered with this DIY/& which aftermarket parts to stay away from tomorrow.

 
Rep Power: 205

Update:

First problem: Okay, so last night I filled the engine with 5w30 Mobil 1 Full Syn, refilled the radiator (no flush), aired the bubbles out by turning the heater full blast and squeezing the hoses. The temp needle is dead on center/middle...not going up or down. Manual says to rev to 3K RPM in P or N for autos until the radiator fan comes on but it never did. My timing is dead-on...idle is not fluctuating and the markers on pulley and pulley nut is dead-on...something I'm good at. LOL!

Next problem: I noticed a very thin film of engine oil at the very lip of the gasket all around the front side of the head cover, none in the back.

Last problem: During the initial warm-up, 5 or 8 minutes into warming up the car I hear a low tone very faint rumbling sound. Boom, boom, boom, boom...just imagine the sound starting off very low & faint and growing louder but still very low toned. Know what I'm saying?

So here are my questions:

1. What do I need to check as to why the fan is not activating?
2. Should I replace the Head Cover gasket? And if so, do I need to drain the oil again? Just spent $40 on brand new engine oil. =(
3. What the heck is that rumbling low tone noise? Could that possible mean I have bubbles in the coolant, or something else?

 
Rep Power: 253

1) If the fan worked before then you still have air in the system. Is your heat hot?
2)Sometimes I see when you reinstall the Valve cover gasket you get a film right after startup. Wipe it down drive it for a day and see if it leaks. (No you do not need to drain the oil to change the gasket. And even if you did you could always drain it into a clean pan and reuse it)
3)It more then likely means you have air in your coolant.

Try to park on a hill. Or use a jack. Nose facing up radiator cap off, and run the car as you continually add coolant to the radiator. Make sure the blower motor fan **** is in the off position and the heat is at its hottest position. Run it like that until you see that the coolant no longer does down at the radiator neck. That should sort out your problems.


Just curious when was the last time you changed your PCV valve? Not changing your PCV valve can cause your oil gaskets to leak like you have here. You can also clean it, but if its really dirty I reccomend you just change it all together.

 
Rep Power: 205

Warm but not extremely hot

Thank you, sir! I love this site...so many helpful peeps.

Darn it!


Had the front on two jacks. Off position and the heat is at its hottest position? Not sure what that will do but will give it a go. When I warmed it up last night several times the coolant started to level off.


Never...but I'm glad you mentioned it cuz I was thinking about doing this soon. I'll give it a go next month or so...gotta save up money for the job.

 
Rep Power: 812

if heat is blowing hot thru the vents, drive the car around gently and see how it performs. also the fans will not turn on except under extreme heat like after you drive in the summer when its 90F or higher outside. the cooling system is already very good that fans are a last resort backup for hot weather idling. you can never get the car fully warmed up by sitting still either. has to be driven. for the low rumble, if it sounds like a pulsed boom once every second, you prolly have the timing slightly off. you will notice this even more driving the car if it doesnt seem as quick as it used to be. did you adjust the valves at all when you had everything open?

you need the heat turned to full HOT when bleeding the coolant so that all the coolant (including that in the heater core) can circulate. otherwise you could have a ton of air in the dash.

 
Rep Power: 205

My initial assessment/question mentioned that it was 45 F.degrees last night but I deleted it because I thought it was stupid to think that could have played a factor but after reading what you said I think you may be right.

Dammit...what you're describing is exactly it! A pulsed boom once every second. I could have sworn my timing was perfect. So, what you're saying is in order for me to correct this I have to take off the upper timing cover off and see that it's at TDC and then look down to see if the pulley marker is lined up to the white marker? Is this correct?

Yes, I did this last night and it looked good.

I don't think I have air bubble issues but that the pulsating booming noise may be a timing issue. But wouldn't it show when I idle? Meaning my I'd have an erratic idle?

 
Rep Power: 812

yeah forget about the fan coming on in the winter. it will never happen unless you drive it like a racecar and then pull into the garage and let it idle for a while. even then it might not.

if the timing was off some more, it would feel like youre running on 3 cylinders. i dont think yours is off that much or the car would run terribly. the idle speed should not really change due to timing being off. ive seen an older honda that blew the distributor and the timing was off by 20 degrees but the idle was perfect lol. it just wouldnt do anything when you rev it.

 
Rep Power: 205

So, yes to my question on how to fix the timing?

Oh, one last thing I forgot to mention: When the car was idling last night for a good 7-8 minutes, I pressed on the gas pedal and probably rev'd it to 3K and let off. The idle dropped below 700 and the engine shut off.

Is this another sign that the timing could be off?

 
Rep Power: 812

yeah its possible, or you forgot to do the idle learn procedure. but that shouldnt cause the car to shut down like that. lemme see if i can find any pics of setting the timing marks in the manual.