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Well I have replaced the three main oil seals, rear main, oil pan and front main. However my 02 lx is still leaking a small amount of oil from the front side, it's wet at the very bottom of the timing cover, and the corner nut on the rear of the oil pan. Getting a few drips overnight or after sitting for a few hours. (opinions on what it could be?)

The rear main is fine, and just this past weekend had my dads mechanic do the oil pan gasket (fel-pro) but he told me he also rtv'd it on, not sure on the consequences of that. But regardless the leak I thought was coming from the pan gasket persists.


Today I had two of my mechanic friends check it out, one of whom is a an ASE certified master tech, and they seem to think it's the front crank seal, still. Even though I just had my dads mechanic friend replace that, a week before the oil pan gasket.


Does anyone have a write up, or DIY or can explain the steps, in any terms, of exactly what has to be removed to gain access to the front crank seal WITHOUT replacing the oil pump assembly.

Thanks.

 
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Was thinking of pickin this up http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=128245

What are the two rings and the flat gasket for?

 
Rep Power: 185

Hi thisguy,

Unfortunately, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if the crank oil seal was replaced correctly, then it may well be your internal oil pump o-ring seal. I just had this very issue.

The flat looking gasket with the bigger hole in the center and the two smaller out holes is the oil pick-up gasket. I'm not sure why two o-rings are displayed in the center, but one of those should be the internal oil pump o-ring I am referring too.

Once again, unfortunately, the replacement of that internal oil pump o-ring involves removing the crank pulley (timing belt and associated components) and also removing the oil pan and oil pick-up tube. This has to happen because the oil pump needs to be removed from the block, which is held on by five 10mm bolts.

The oil pump is probably fine, but the little internal o-ring, which has the output pressure of the oil pump is probably leaking.

Make sure the cam seal isn't the culprit as well.

Since the crank oil seal was just replaced and if the cam seal isn't leaking, the only thing that really needs to be replaced doing this repair would be the oil pick-up gasket and the internal oil pump o-ring.

You can replace the oil pan gasket if you want, but it's probably ok. And the Chilton manual does call for some RTV when replacing a steel oil pan gasket, so your mechanic did the right thing.

I have an 02 EX 4dr and have a cast aluminum oil pan, which is a gasketless seal. So I had to clean all the old gasketless sealant crap off and use Honda ultra flange II gasket sealant to make a new gasket when I performed this repair.

If you we're doing the work yourself it would cost about $5 or $6 for those seals from your local Honda dealer. I would recommend going OEM and using the OEM pick-up gasket and internal oil pump o-ring. Just my preference and my .02 on your problem.

Please reference this drawing. Pieces 20 and 3 are the ones you want to replace if you determine the internal oil pump seal is leaking.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...-+OIL+STRAINER

 
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buh, really not looking forward to pullin the oil pump. makin sure the crank oil seal was installed properly is just seeing if its flush on the crank, not warped, and there shouldnt be any oil on the outer surface (visible side)...that would basically mean its the oil pump o-ring?

any ideas on how that would leak to the front/bottom of the timing cover?

 
Rep Power: 185

It leaks up and over the oil pump flange and goes down to the lowest point, which is the bottom curvature of the oil pump itself. It has the capability of going through the lower timing belt cover because there's an opening at the bottoming of it. It looks like a little nipple for lack of a better word, but there's a hole there that allows it to form a drop and leak. It looks like it can leak there by design so it doesn't fill the lower timing belt cover with oil and saturate your timing belt with oil, which would be very bad over a period of time and would eventually cause the timing belt to break prematurely. It can also leak to the back/side of the pump and on to the top of the oil pan, making it look like the oil pan is leaking.

The crank sensor and connector are almost located directly opposite of where that internal o-ring is located. I bet if your mechanic or whoever took the lower timing belt cover off, you'd discover that the crank sensor, connector and little rubber grommet that the sensor sits in is covered in a layer of oil. That would be your ultimate smoking gun IMO.

And yes, the crank oil seal should be flush and even all the way around against the oil pump. It's pretty hard to screw it up. I used high temp silicone grease to make sure it slid in all the way and to seal it well. The grease also preserves the seal better. When I first did my timing belt job on my vehicle and initially replaced it, the crank seal wasn't leaking to begin with and neither was the oil pump o-ring. I think it started leaking after I switched to full synthetic.

Sorry for the bad news. If I lived near you, I'd definitely help you with this job since I just did it by myself on my 02 EX. Yours would be easier to do IMO because you actually have a gasket on your oil pan.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 
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thats when the leaks started for me also.

ya im in central florida, its gonna be a hot day in the drive way when i start this lol

ya being that i just had the oil pan gasket replaced this past friday im not really excited about having to pull it off again to change the pump seal and that o ring...that image i got from rockauto seems to be the right flat seal, and o-ring right? ill probably just go to my local honda dealer and get the pump seal and the ONE o ring? idk why there are two in the image from rock auto either.

ive got a MT. and just remembered the trans cover is in the way of removing the oil pan...anyone know how to get that outta the way? how many bolts and locations?

thanks

 
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I have an AT so I had to remove the covers for the shift cable located just below the flywheel and push the lock tabs out of the way and unscrew the bolt and remove the cable from the transmission shift lever. And then in my case I had to remove the flywheel cover to get to the last oil pan two bolts.

You have to drop your exhaust as well before taking the oil pan off.

You also have to move the power steering pump out of the way, the alternator. remove the valve cover, upper timing belt cover, right side engine mount and the lower timing belt cover. Then you have to remove the crank pulley, crank sensor, and the timing belt as well. I'm not sure you were aware you had to do this as well, that's why I'm mentioning it. Once the timing belts removed you can access the 5 bolts holding the oil pump to the block.

After you take the timing belt stuff off, I would replace the engine mount, and then pull the exhaust and oil pan off. You need to remove the oil strainer to get the oil pump off the block.

I would really recommend you use a Chilton manual and follow the oil pump removal procedure, which has you remove the timing belt stuff and oil pan. The only thing it doesn't tell you is to remove the shift cable at the shift lever on the transmission and then remove the flywheel cover.

Make sure you inspect all the other seals and the timing belt for any oil it may have absorbed.

If I were you I would replace the valve cover gasket, crank seal, timing belt, oil pan gasket, oil strainer gasket and of course the internal oil pump o-ring. It's not like your going to be doing this again anytime soon, so that's why I went all new when I did this job last week. This is of course your call as to what you want to replace. For sure the oil strainer gasket and the internal oil pump o-ring.

And yes, I would go OEM for all the above parts you decide to replace. With stuff like this, I personally think OEM is always the way to go, but once again that's just my preference.

Good luck.

 
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wasnt sure on moving the p/s pump, the alt, or the valve cover...didnt think that was in the way...am i gonna have to drain the p/s system or just move the pump a bit? and why remove the valve cover? is it holding down the upper timing belt cover? srry if thats a dumb question lol


and i have replaced the bold items, just not the oil pump o ring or the strainer seal, im guessing now that when i had the front main seal and oil pan gasket done they were fine, and this whole time it has been the oil pump o ring, but ill know for sure next sunday when i start this project.

 
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as far as the chilton repair manual, any preference over the haynes? is the chilton just the one you have? or does it have more detailed instructions?


thanks again

 
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Yes, I have the Chilton manual. I've personally always thought it was better than the Haynes. I think the pictures and instructions are written better in the Chilton manual. Once again, that's just my opinion. No mechanic told me how to do all the above work and I was able to accomplish it on my own, using the Chilton manual, with minimal issues. You can also download the Honda tech service manual from this link below.

http://downloads.hondatech.info/Auto...Civic01-05.zip

It's how the Honda tech's would do it, well, that is, if the Honda tech's do it right.

The valve cover is holding the upper timing cover in place. That's why it needs to be removed.

And one more note. The lower timing belt cover is held in by 4 bolts, the fourth being the hardest to see is recessed on the backside of the engine. Don't make the mistake of thinking you have it all the way off with only 3 bolts and then feel likes it's caught on something. It's not. I broke my lower timing cover and stretched the crap out of the lower timing belt cover gasket the first time I did this 9 months ago because I didn't remove that recessed bolt. I'm giving you advanced warning.

As far as parts replacement goes, that's up to you.

I also own 4 torque wrenches and I torqued everything that I could reach to the proper torque spec in accordanc with the Chilton and Honda service manual. I know that's sounds **** and maybe crazy, but I like to do it right.

I have a 20-150 ft/lbs 1/2" drive, 25-250 ft/lbs 1/2", 120-960 in/lbs 3/8" and a 25-250 in/lbs 3/8".

You're gonna also need the crank pulley tool below as well unless you have another method of getting the pulley off you're going to use. The crank bolt is going to be on there tight depending on who tightened it last.

http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648.../dp/B0000TMLWQ

The crank bolts supposed to be retigtened to 180 ft/lbs according to the Chilton manaul.

Good luck. Since this is your first time doing this I would allow for two days just to be safe. Take your time and you should be alright.

 
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thanks matt, big help on this procedure.


still lil in the dark about the trans cover for the MT, ive found that its four bolts? but not sure where they are....probably gonna have to pull off the air box and intake filter box to see them right?

 
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I'm not sure with out seeing your car. I would imagine you'd have to go under the car see where everything's physically located to determine what MT bolts need to be removed.

 
Rep Power: 245

Haynes owns chilton. They bought them out and jacked up the price. A few more pics and maybe an exact socket size is all u get. Pay 60$ from Helms.com and get a real honda manual!!!