J187

6"4"3" meaning 3 ways? If that's what you mean yes, they do. But I'm not sure if any of them work the same as CDT's system. What CDT audio's does is allow you to add a 3rd speaker to any one of thier existing component sets on the same amp channel. So for instance, if you had CL-61As, you could buy their CL series sixoctave set for only $99, you get 2 4" fill speakers and a tunable xover and you wire the whole thing right inline with your existing components and tune the 4" to pick up the gaps left by you component xovers. I'm not sure if Boston, dyne or DA has anything like that, I've never noticed. I know Boston's 65.3 set was a simple 3-way with a 6.5", a 4" and a 3/4" tweeter. - Awesome sound but retailed for like $750. Ouch. They weren't competition for Focal! If any other companies do have a add-on 3rd speaker system that ties into the same amp channel, I just haven't noticed.

ex_03

Yea I thought they all could be amped on one channel like that.Hmmm, never did any sets of any of them becuase they were bank, like you said.

J187

Well I know with the BAs, you had to replace the whole crossover with the 3-way crossover. Rather than running 2 crossovers on one channel like the new CDT. So if you were running pro series comonents, I think they were called 6-5s, you would have to take them out and replace the whole setup with a 3-way xover and 4", sold only as 3-way. That's why I think the sixoctave system is kinda neat. Add-on style. Not only were they expensive, but the BAs tweeters made my ear's bleed. I think 3 dogs died on my block the day I installed mine.

WhiteRabbit

I will post as I think of what went wrong with those kicks.

#1 Aesthetically, it was neccesary to flush mount them. period. didnt matter that it was an experiment, they just didnt look good surface mounted.

#2 vented. vented, vented, vented! needed a hole in the bottom that mashed into the carpet to let some air out. this I later corrected and added clay. Helped.

#3 the midbass box drew bass guitar and kickdrum to the right. it was a failure from quality of sound standpoint. kinda fun to drive around with, though.

#4 its SUPER important to realize your friends are idiots and completely untrainable. You cannot expect for them not to put their foot through your kicks, even after you tell them three times. your grills better be foot-proof.

#5 the tweeters are in front. they need ot be farther away than the mids. tweeters are much more distance sensitive than midranges and especially midbasses. I had problems in this car with high frequencies that were deep in the stage still sounded like they were right in front. moving the tweets back would have helped!

#6 its raining, and my tweeters are in front! rain killed my drivers side tweet when we had the boatloads of rain that winter. having them far back would have rendered them weather inacessible! (and saved me space).

#7 the tweeter shuld have also been on its own seperate baffle. the tweeter had its own dispersion pattern, and my stage would have GREATLY benefitted if I had the opportunity to position all four speakers individually.

#8 I dont like how the kick spills out on top of the door sill. aesthetically, the only way Ive been able to come up with a solution is to use bondo and paint the kicks to match as closely as possible. I'm open to suggestions for my new grill show to combat this problem! I suppose another option is to mod the stock plates, but I like the ability to revert back to stock. anyone who has seen my car with the back seat removed and the three 15's are always shocked to see the backseat back in my car, as if nothing was ever amis!

ncirom2003

iTrader: (7)

good job but im not liking the way it looks, although it seems like your a guy more about function than form and thats good.

WhiteRabbit

you are right, aesthetics are a severe problem with these kicks. physical depth of the kicks was a major issue, along wiht using such a large diameter speaker. as I recall, these drivers wont even fit into Q logics, by a massive margin. However, I feel ive addressed the aestehtics concerns in the above. breakdown though:

good: hood release latch

bad: carpeted, spill out over the sill, too huge, tweeter extended forward, drivers not flush mounted.

what were the other bads you saw? your next post could radically change the next kicks someone here designs, for the better

ncirom2003

iTrader: (7)

i figured id just show you were id trim it to make it flow a lil better,

nvm cus the files are too large and im past due for sleep lol what i would do is trim where it overlaps the doorsill so it stops where it meets the sill, then trim it so it goes straight down then curves sharply and extends to the gas cap lever(goes under that plastic to hide the seam) then id extend it on the side also and trim it so it curves slightly out like it does but a little less and get rid of the bumpiness of the edge, and match the carpet. it looks nice but seeing that you built it good i know you couldve definately done better either way id also angle it so the tweets are closer to the ground and the top of the speakers are tilted back towards door more then take the whole piece of wood they are on and move it in that direction maybe an inch or a half. this is what im thinking for looks but obviously you had better things on your mind and if i knew how to detect hafl the things you talked about it id do it the same way u did
oh and thank god you removed teh sub from the passenger floor lol

WhiteRabbit

yes, thats the ideal spot for the spillout over the sill. the problem is, the thickness of the stock panel is about the thickness of standard vinyls! so if I were to fiberglass right to the same distance out as the stock panel when I vinyl it still sticks up like the carpeted ones do! how to get it flush without paint? I have no idea!

J187

My how things have changed since 03', Can you imagine what he might have to say now?


Anyway, I think you did a pretty good job with what you had to work with, I mean the drivers are huge and the tweeter is a monster. I would have suggested you made a border around the baffle and used a one-piece grill to cover the whole thing. Also, maybe vinyl would have been better too. Like I said, I think maybe part of the problem is you picked some what of a PITA set of speakers to work with. A more conventional set of components would have been easier to aim, baffle and flush. I think there are two morels of the story here fore people to take away.

1. Take your time with the planning stages and the aiming of your speakers even if the desire to jump right into the building process plagues you.
2. Do not set the bar too high for your first project. Not very often at all do you end up liking and keeping you first attempted project. Noone has ever learned anything from success.


Umm, I don't think the tweeters would have fit in the stock 6" door locations!

Considering all the problems you had imaging it, 2 weeks with still minimal success, perhaps you would have been better off leaving the stage down low with perfect rt and lt and using an imaging tweeter on the dash to bring up the stage?


I'm in the process of building kicks right now. When I'm done, I'll make it into
a DIY as well.

fonto

iTrader: (1)

what would be the cons of putting tweets in the sails, and leaving the midrange in the kicks?

MegaHurtz

iTrader: (6)

Stickied as the first winner for DIY of the month!

WhiteRabbit

more like DIY of the week. doesnt need to be stickied long before it gets filed away in your all encompasing ICE sticky.

fonto, I had problems putting my tweets in the sails with the speaker distances. corractable using time alignment, but for the passenger, that made all the noise the stereo produced sound like it was coming from the right a-pillar.

to be fair, though, I was using very very wide range drivers up there. I think it could work if your tweeters were designed to be filtered very very high, such as LPG 26na's or other inexpensive drivers.

I cant wait to see your kick DIY, j187! im sure mega will put it right next to mine in the diy listing, ill probably vote for it cant wait to see what you are gonna do with those six octaves

J187

more like DIY of two years ago, revisited

MegaHurtz

iTrader: (6)

diy of the month cuz i am too lazy to change it every week

MegaHurtz

iTrader: (6)

btw rabbit, what tweeters are those in the kicks?

J187

They are Vifas.
D75s maybe

WhiteRabbit

XT25's. $55 a piece from parts express. very directional. supposed to play up to 40k, but off axis they rolloff around 16k or below. not very good for the car.

J187

Ouch. Guess not.

tgctruly

this is well done~~ hella nice, I am showing this to the other club's people to watch your great work!!

WhiteRabbit

I happened to stumble on them the other day, actually. Thought I threw them away. If anyone wants them, they know whats great about them, they know whats awful about them, and they may have a couple ideas I have to improve them. It would be a crime to charge for them, but I don thave a box to ship them out in. anyone happens to be in or around the bay area can have em, if they are willing to put some TLC into them. I'd rather see them go to a good home than collect dust in a corner of the garage.

tgctruly

dang for real? sux, just wonder if you have made a new one~~ post the finishing pix again~~ I here to check out and learn of cuz~

MegaHurtz

iTrader: (6)

Announcing the latest DIY of the month!! Enjoy everybody!!

WhiteRabbit

these kickpanels look like ****. anyone who has used fiberglass two or three times could do better with one arm tied behind their back.

and they are still in my garage. free to anyone who is willing to do the work of meeting me somewhere in person to nab them. I dont want to ship them anywhere. the carpet is junk, it was applied face side down by mistake (at the time I didnt know carpet HAD a face side). they need to be refinished. they may have even warped by now.

if you rolled up to world finals with these kicks, you'd get laughed at.

many aesthetic violations occued during construction of the kicks:
#1 the front spills out over the sill.
#2 the drivers side kick slopes into the floor rather than tucking under it, like the passenger side does.
#3 no integrated grill.
#4 no ability to add one easily after the fact.
#5 rain drops directly onto that tweeter location when it rains. no protection from the elements. (that was a $55 mistake)

two things I did do right.
#1 wraps around the metal joint like the stock kickpanel (up high).
#2 nicely allows motion of the hood release.

tboy93

Hi! I would like to ask somebody to upload the pictures again Thanks!

WhiteRabbit

The pictures are long gone. As often happens over 10 years of gained experience, I can tell you they were nothing to oogle anyways. As was mentioned by me even 2 years after the original post. Truly I tell you there was nothing there that warranted laurels of a DIY of the month on an internet bulletin board of Honda civic drivers.

If you want some tips for how to make a set of good looking kickpanels, here is a brief of details that must be 100% pre-planned before you make a single cut:

1. plan for the grille up front. make it foot-proof. Ensure the grille is properly integrated, not a surface mounted afterthought.

2. follow the lines of the car. This will always yield more attractive results. Even when it yields bizzare individual pieces or requires ignoring the lines of the speakers themselves, the finished resuld always looks more polished. This goes for the subwoofer, CD player, and any car mod you ever pursue.

3. weight is your friend. polyester resin is cheap and heavy. Lead is also cheap and heavy. A heavy kickpanel resists vibration.

4. solid mounting is required. panel clips are OK. 1/4-20 taps are even better. Especially when your panels get above the 5 pound mark.

5. The borders of the kickpanel are more important than the middle. wild and crazy in the middle looks terrible if it terminates into a poor border to the rest of the car. This is where most kickpanels fail. They are arbitrarily cut and look like a pimple screwed to the floorboard. Spend half of your time planning how you are going to flow the panel into the OEM lines of the car, using OEM lines to do it.

The other half of your time should be spent planning how to integrate the grille to ensure the speakers are protected and that the grille flows according to OEM lines.

Every single detail after that, every last one, will be a product of planning around those two items. And you will succeed every time.