Speaker problems
10-23-2002
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Speaker problems
Hi guys,
I wanted some help on what I can do. I have a Clarion DB325 putting out 18 RMS X 4 channels. I have infinity's 62.5i's in the rear, Kappa series and awaiting the arrival of my infinity 605cs components. When I put the bass up on my HU to 6 and fade to the rear speakers it does not sound pretty at all. It is like the speakers are gonna burse, you get the distinctive thump thump noise. Why is this happening and how do i fix it, the Kappas are rated at 75 RMS. It is b/c these speakers are not meant for lower frequencies? But I thought the crossover was supposed to prevent that. Or is it expected that some lower frequencies will get to the speaker and cause it to act like this. The speakers were brand new, in a sealed box. It is not a constant thump thump, but only if the music hits a lower than normal frequencey. Thanks for ur help in advance
I wanted some help on what I can do. I have a Clarion DB325 putting out 18 RMS X 4 channels. I have infinity's 62.5i's in the rear, Kappa series and awaiting the arrival of my infinity 605cs components. When I put the bass up on my HU to 6 and fade to the rear speakers it does not sound pretty at all. It is like the speakers are gonna burse, you get the distinctive thump thump noise. Why is this happening and how do i fix it, the Kappas are rated at 75 RMS. It is b/c these speakers are not meant for lower frequencies? But I thought the crossover was supposed to prevent that. Or is it expected that some lower frequencies will get to the speaker and cause it to act like this. The speakers were brand new, in a sealed box. It is not a constant thump thump, but only if the music hits a lower than normal frequencey. Thanks for ur help in advance
10-23-2002
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Rep Power: 314 #1 there is not crossover
#2 yoru kappas are playing frequencies they cant handle
#3 ill bet dollars to donuts (i had kappas in my car and had the same problem) that the causation is flexing cones
#4 the solution is to remove those kappas and place them gingerly into the garbage can, where they belong....[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]
i would highly reccommend selling those speakers to a friend and getting something (anything) you KNOW has no cone flex at high volumes.
(do you actually listen to music with the bass turned up and faded all teh way to rear?)
#2 yoru kappas are playing frequencies they cant handle
#3 ill bet dollars to donuts (i had kappas in my car and had the same problem) that the causation is flexing cones
#4 the solution is to remove those kappas and place them gingerly into the garbage can, where they belong....[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]
i would highly reccommend selling those speakers to a friend and getting something (anything) you KNOW has no cone flex at high volumes.
(do you actually listen to music with the bass turned up and faded all teh way to rear?)
10-23-2002
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Rep Power: 294 i can't think of any coax speaker that can play bass. coaxil's are made for highs and mids, not lows, for lows, get a sub. when i was running my boston acoustics RX67 2 way coaxils off of my pioneer deh-7400mp, i kept the bass at the normal setting, or slightly above, but never at the full bass setting, they would not handle it.
how loud do you listen to music anyways?
put the bass and treble at 0, then turn the volume up to the desired amount, then start turning up the bass and treble until it distorts, then back off a notch. so if the bass distorts at 4, go to 3. i see no reason to get rid of the speakers, they are nice, just mess with the settings a bit more.
p.s. make sure they are connected right, if you have the polarity ( positive/negative ) switched on one of the speakers, that can cause some bass distortions.
btw, i'm a newbie at this and learning myself, if my suggestings dont help, wait for one of the audiophiles to reply, they will help you better.
how loud do you listen to music anyways?
put the bass and treble at 0, then turn the volume up to the desired amount, then start turning up the bass and treble until it distorts, then back off a notch. so if the bass distorts at 4, go to 3. i see no reason to get rid of the speakers, they are nice, just mess with the settings a bit more.
p.s. make sure they are connected right, if you have the polarity ( positive/negative ) switched on one of the speakers, that can cause some bass distortions.
btw, i'm a newbie at this and learning myself, if my suggestings dont help, wait for one of the audiophiles to reply, they will help you better.
10-23-2002
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Rep Power: 0 Thanks guys. Rabbit, I wont be getting rid of those speakers cuz they had to be installed in the rear and that would be a pain to have to pay for them to be taken out again. I dont normally listen to my music faded t othe back and full bass, i was just testing their handling. So if i follow the other suggestion of turning the bass down a notch at where it starts to distorts and listen at that level, I think i will be ok. But if i add a sub, wont I have the same problem, or will the low freq be directed to the subs through the amp, leaving only highs and mid left for the rear speakers?
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10-23-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: Amer786
Thanks guys. Rabbit, I wont be getting rid of those speakers cuz they had to be installed in the rear and that would be a pain to have to pay for them to be taken out again. I dont normally listen to my music faded t othe back and full bass, i was just testing their handling. So if i follow the other suggestion of turning the bass down a notch at where it starts to distorts and listen at that level, I think i will be ok. But if i add a sub, wont I have the same problem, or will the low freq be directed to the subs through the amp, leaving only highs and mid left for the rear speakers?
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Amer786
Thanks guys. Rabbit, I wont be getting rid of those speakers cuz they had to be installed in the rear and that would be a pain to have to pay for them to be taken out again. I dont normally listen to my music faded t othe back and full bass, i was just testing their handling. So if i follow the other suggestion of turning the bass down a notch at where it starts to distorts and listen at that level, I think i will be ok. But if i add a sub, wont I have the same problem, or will the low freq be directed to the subs through the amp, leaving only highs and mid left for the rear speakers?
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
also, those infinity speakers you have aren't that efficient, meaning, they should be getting more power to run better, like with an amp. under powering speakers can distort them to, but that doesn't mean that putting an amp to them will improve the bass.
keep the speakers, adjust the bass, and dont fade to the rear, it should sound good.
10-23-2002
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[hr]under powering speakers can distort them to, but that doesn't mean that putting an amp to them will improve the bass.[hr]
[hr]under powering speakers can distort them to, but that doesn't mean that putting an amp to them will improve the bass.[hr]
10-23-2002
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Rep Power: 0 I might be missing something but... if the head unit is putting out 18 WRMS max into a 75 WRMS speaker, it is being under powered, am I right so far, but where does the distortion come in. I mean i am not even putting the voulme up to 15 of 33 before this happens. How can distortion happen when the input is nowhere close to the power the speaker can handle, how can it distort? I thought distorting occurs if u are putting more power to the speaker than it can handle...Under the theory you have suggested then, adding a sub will not fix the problem because then it will be putting 50 WRMS or so into a the speaker. I am not sure I understand what you guys are saying.
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10-24-2002
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Rep Power: 0 Ok .... personally all your equipment is fine. Good brands etc ....
Speakers can sound bad due to:
A) overpowering (cones distort, can't handle power, burning them up)
B) being fed a bad signal (crap signal in = crap sound out)
C) bad installation, poor placement, etc ....
In your case they are getting a bad signal.
Your maxing out all the setting on your Clarion to the point it puts out a distorted signal to the speakers. When this happens it makes your speakers sound like crap. You claim your bass was +6 and the volume at 15. Well +1 on bass is generally really 2 db boost. So take 2db * 6 up thats really a total of 12 db. Now add that 12 to 15 and you get 27. Thats 27 / 33 so really you are near the max on that deck. Thats generally a good way to judge the maximums on decks. Also bass is by far the hardest part of the signal for the deck to output. Thats also why you should never use LOUD buttons. Thats a +10 db bass boost.
An amp would help because at the point the Clarion starts to crap out making the bass signal an external amp wouldn't even be breaking a sweat. Deck power is way over-rated. It might claim 18 watts RMS but it probably isn't the full frequency range and with high distortion ratings. Just a fact you have to live with. Also because the amp can output more power the speakers will actually go much louder now too.
Heres an example ......
I have a Pioneer 7400MP Deck (50x4 @ 4 ohms, can't do 2 ohms, 50hz-20khz, 10% distortion, 10 AMP fuse)
I also have a Kicker 150.2 AMP (35x2 @ 4 ohms, 75x2 @ 2 ohms, 20hz-20khz, 0.05% distortion, 30 AMP fuse)
The Deck power is way over-inflated while the Kicker is way under-rated. Plus look at the fuse ratings. In theory that Kicker can put over 3x the overall power to the same speakers with far less distortion. Rate them on equally and that deck power is crap. At the point the deck hits 0.05% distortion for a full 20hz-20khz like the Kicker @ 4 ohms your truly looking at maybe 5-7 watts RMS.
In a way its all a numbers game.
Speakers can sound bad due to:
A) overpowering (cones distort, can't handle power, burning them up)
B) being fed a bad signal (crap signal in = crap sound out)
C) bad installation, poor placement, etc ....
In your case they are getting a bad signal.
Your maxing out all the setting on your Clarion to the point it puts out a distorted signal to the speakers. When this happens it makes your speakers sound like crap. You claim your bass was +6 and the volume at 15. Well +1 on bass is generally really 2 db boost. So take 2db * 6 up thats really a total of 12 db. Now add that 12 to 15 and you get 27. Thats 27 / 33 so really you are near the max on that deck. Thats generally a good way to judge the maximums on decks. Also bass is by far the hardest part of the signal for the deck to output. Thats also why you should never use LOUD buttons. Thats a +10 db bass boost.
An amp would help because at the point the Clarion starts to crap out making the bass signal an external amp wouldn't even be breaking a sweat. Deck power is way over-rated. It might claim 18 watts RMS but it probably isn't the full frequency range and with high distortion ratings. Just a fact you have to live with. Also because the amp can output more power the speakers will actually go much louder now too.
Heres an example ......
I have a Pioneer 7400MP Deck (50x4 @ 4 ohms, can't do 2 ohms, 50hz-20khz, 10% distortion, 10 AMP fuse)
I also have a Kicker 150.2 AMP (35x2 @ 4 ohms, 75x2 @ 2 ohms, 20hz-20khz, 0.05% distortion, 30 AMP fuse)
The Deck power is way over-inflated while the Kicker is way under-rated. Plus look at the fuse ratings. In theory that Kicker can put over 3x the overall power to the same speakers with far less distortion. Rate them on equally and that deck power is crap. At the point the deck hits 0.05% distortion for a full 20hz-20khz like the Kicker @ 4 ohms your truly looking at maybe 5-7 watts RMS.
In a way its all a numbers game.
10-24-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: Regularjoe
Ok .... personally all your equipment is fine. Good brands etc ....
Speakers can sound bad due to:
A) overpowering (cones distort, can't handle power, burning them up)
B) being fed a bad signal (crap signal in = crap sound out)
C) bad installation, poor placement, etc ....
In your case they are getting a bad signal.
Your maxing out all the setting on your Clarion to the point it puts out a distorted signal to the speakers. When this happens it makes your speakers sound like crap. You claim your bass was +6 and the volume at 15. Well +1 on bass is generally really 2 db boost. So take 2db * 6 up thats really a total of 12 db. Now add that 12 to 15 and you get 27. Thats 27 / 33 so really you are near the max on that deck. Thats generally a good way to judge the maximums on decks. Also bass is by far the hardest part of the signal for the deck to output. Thats also why you should never use LOUD buttons. Thats a +10 db bass boost.
An amp would help because at the point the Clarion starts to crap out making the bass signal an external amp wouldn't even be breaking a sweat. Deck power is way over-rated. It might claim 18 watts RMS but it probably isn't the full frequency range and with high distortion ratings. Just a fact you have to live with. Also because the amp can output more power the speakers will actually go much louder now too.
Heres an example ......
I have a Pioneer 7400MP Deck (50x4 @ 4 ohms, can't do 2 ohms, 50hz-20khz, 10% distortion, 10 AMP fuse)
I also have a Kicker 150.2 AMP (35x2 @ 4 ohms, 75x2 @ 2 ohms, 20hz-20khz, 0.05% distortion, 30 AMP fuse)
The Deck power is way over-inflated while the Kicker is way under-rated. Plus look at the fuse ratings. In theory that Kicker can put over 3x the overall power to the same speakers with far less distortion. Rate them on equally and that deck power is crap. At the point the deck hits 0.05% distortion for a full 20hz-20khz like the Kicker @ 4 ohms your truly looking at maybe 5-7 watts RMS.
In a way its all a numbers game.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Regularjoe
Ok .... personally all your equipment is fine. Good brands etc ....
Speakers can sound bad due to:
A) overpowering (cones distort, can't handle power, burning them up)
B) being fed a bad signal (crap signal in = crap sound out)
C) bad installation, poor placement, etc ....
In your case they are getting a bad signal.
Your maxing out all the setting on your Clarion to the point it puts out a distorted signal to the speakers. When this happens it makes your speakers sound like crap. You claim your bass was +6 and the volume at 15. Well +1 on bass is generally really 2 db boost. So take 2db * 6 up thats really a total of 12 db. Now add that 12 to 15 and you get 27. Thats 27 / 33 so really you are near the max on that deck. Thats generally a good way to judge the maximums on decks. Also bass is by far the hardest part of the signal for the deck to output. Thats also why you should never use LOUD buttons. Thats a +10 db bass boost.
An amp would help because at the point the Clarion starts to crap out making the bass signal an external amp wouldn't even be breaking a sweat. Deck power is way over-rated. It might claim 18 watts RMS but it probably isn't the full frequency range and with high distortion ratings. Just a fact you have to live with. Also because the amp can output more power the speakers will actually go much louder now too.
Heres an example ......
I have a Pioneer 7400MP Deck (50x4 @ 4 ohms, can't do 2 ohms, 50hz-20khz, 10% distortion, 10 AMP fuse)
I also have a Kicker 150.2 AMP (35x2 @ 4 ohms, 75x2 @ 2 ohms, 20hz-20khz, 0.05% distortion, 30 AMP fuse)
The Deck power is way over-inflated while the Kicker is way under-rated. Plus look at the fuse ratings. In theory that Kicker can put over 3x the overall power to the same speakers with far less distortion. Rate them on equally and that deck power is crap. At the point the deck hits 0.05% distortion for a full 20hz-20khz like the Kicker @ 4 ohms your truly looking at maybe 5-7 watts RMS.
In a way its all a numbers game.[hr]
He is over using the setting features on his HU Putting the bass up will cause the cone to heavily distort because a 6.5" woofer is not meant to play bass. It's over excurting.
This is why speakers should be high passed.
The HU doesn't have a hard time putting out bass. You can run a 15" sub off the HU itself just fine with a proper crossover.
For the HU's amp. The reason it has a 10amp fuse is because it's all it actually needs. Music is not a constant load.
The Kicker amp has a 35 amp fuse for running it mono to a sub. Then it would draw alot of current. If your running that amp to mids you can use a 15 amp fuse and it will likely never blow.
You are definately right on with the distortion of the HU's amp.
About the crappy signal..very doubtful... it's just the frequency which the speakers are trying to produce..
Cheers
Mohawk
10-24-2002
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Rep Power: 0 So, as it stands right now, I have got no external amp. If I hooked up an amp to power the speakers, it will do a much better job, right? Do I need a seperate crossover or can I simply let the amp do that? Any good amps you guys suggest?
10-24-2002
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Rep Power: 0 i've got the same setup in my car, and i'm using a kicker 600.4 75 rms x 4 @ 4 ohms... sounds quite good, crossed between 90 and 100... and it gets damn loud you can get it for 269 @ www.ikesound.com
10-24-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: Amer786
So, as it stands right now, I have got no external amp. If I hooked up an amp to power the speakers, it will do a much better job, right? Do I need a seperate crossover or can I simply let the amp do that? Any good amps you guys suggest?[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Amer786
So, as it stands right now, I have got no external amp. If I hooked up an amp to power the speakers, it will do a much better job, right? Do I need a seperate crossover or can I simply let the amp do that? Any good amps you guys suggest?[hr]
Cheers
Mohawk
10-25-2002
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Rep Power: 0 So I should get a 2 channel amp to power the front speakers and let the amp's crossover do the work in the front? Why would this not be feabile for the rear? What is the correct terminology for thos bass blockers...bass blockers? I guess I should wait until I get an amp before i put the bass blockers in,cux this way i wont get any bass at all, of course these can hande some? Cuz i dont think i would last long, listening to highs all the time.
10-25-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: Amer786
So I should get a 2 channel amp to power the front speakers and let the amp's crossover do the work in the front? Why would this not be feabile for the rear? What is the correct terminology for thos bass blockers...bass blockers? I guess I should wait until I get an amp before i put the bass blockers in,cux this way i wont get any bass at all, of course these can hande some? Cuz i dont think i would last long, listening to highs all the time.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Amer786
So I should get a 2 channel amp to power the front speakers and let the amp's crossover do the work in the front? Why would this not be feabile for the rear? What is the correct terminology for thos bass blockers...bass blockers? I guess I should wait until I get an amp before i put the bass blockers in,cux this way i wont get any bass at all, of course these can hande some? Cuz i dont think i would last long, listening to highs all the time.[hr]
10-27-2002
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[hr]Originally posted by: LudlamTheory
i've got the same setup in my car, and i'm using a kicker 600.4 75 rms x 4 @ 4 ohms... sounds quite good, crossed between 90 and 100... and it gets damn loud you can get it for 269 @ www.ikesound.com[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: LudlamTheory
i've got the same setup in my car, and i'm using a kicker 600.4 75 rms x 4 @ 4 ohms... sounds quite good, crossed between 90 and 100... and it gets damn loud you can get it for 269 @ www.ikesound.com[hr]
What are the ranges for low pass? mid range? high pass? I am sort of confused on this.
If I got an amp, it would not do anything for the bass but it would amplify the 62.5i and the 605cs's i am gonna be putting in? Or will I get inprovment in the bass output as well? What happens to the low freq put out by the deck? Is this why the speakers are distorting?
Should I get a 2 or 4 channel amp?
Thanks for your help
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