I.C.E. (Audio) & Electrical Upgrades Post all your I.C.E. (In Car Entertainment) and wiring questions here (Audio, video etc.)

Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #1  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element


Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #2  
Colin42's Avatar
"Marge, anyone could miss Canada! All tucked away down there."
 
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,641
Likes: 1,283
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Rep Power: 222
Colin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to all
re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

So you wired in a 2 wire sensor to the four wire plug and left the other two wires to run the heating element in the old sensor?

would it not have been way easier to just get the correct sensor?
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #3  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

The sensor is the correct one just the heating element is not working.
No. I would have spent more time "getting" new sensor not to mention the cost of it.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #4  
Colin42's Avatar
"Marge, anyone could miss Canada! All tucked away down there."
 
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 9,641
Likes: 1,283
From: Barrie, ON Canada
Rep Power: 222
Colin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to allColin42 is a name known to all
re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Ok maybe mention that in the original post,hard to tell what you did with no context or description for the pictures
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #5  
mcnoople's Avatar
The legs in the public bathroom stall
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 382
Likes: 6
From: MURICA
Rep Power: 142
mcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to beholdmcnoople is a splendid one to behold
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

So now you have a O2 sensor that has no heater function at all and a small toaster attached to an exhaust. OoooooooKay I guess that is one way to do it, wouldn't be a route I would consider. So do you have any codes now? O2 slow response? Heater circuit codes due to incorrect resistance?
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #6  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by Colin42
Ok maybe mention that in the original post, hard to tell what you did with no context or description for the pictures

I am sorry I thought it was clear since you can’t purchase an old sensor.

Last edited by emich; Jan 29, 2019 at 04:14 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #7  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by mcnoople
So now you have a O2 sensor that has no heater function at all and a small toaster attached to an exhaust. OoooooooKay I guess that is one way to do it, wouldn't be a route I would consider. So do you have any codes now? O2 slow response? Heater circuit codes due to incorrect resistance?
I didn’t check how many watts is the heating element. My guess is 5-10 Watt. Hardly a toaster, a bulb is more powerful.. No codes whatsoever even in the freezing cold those days. Why would I have incorrect resistance? The heating element in the attached old sensor has the same specs.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #8  
ezone's Avatar
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 518
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by emich
. No codes whatsoever even in the freezing cold those days.
How long (mileage) has it been running with this modification in place?
The heating element in the attached old sensor has the same specs.
The sensor inside the cat isn't working as intended. I speculate could set a code for slow response or maybe high/low voltage, or even a cat code P0420 because that rear sensor has lost its internal heater.

Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #9  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by ezone
How long (mileage) has it been running with this modification in place?
The sensor inside the cat isn't working as intended. I speculate could set a code for slow response or maybe high/low voltage, or even a cat code P0420 because that rear sensor has lost its internal heater.
At least 120 mi. The real test is the number of cold starts. In few minutes the temperature around the sensor exceeds the temperature of heater element.
I am monitoring the Voltage and Short Term % Data. Looks OK. What do you think?

Last edited by emich; Jan 29, 2019 at 07:51 PM.
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #10  
ezone's Avatar
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 518
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Looks OK. What do you think?
Does your car have to pass any emissions testing?

What you've done is not a proper repair no matter how you look at it. You fooled the computer and it might be happy for the moment but that's it.
Why didn't you just install a new correct sensor?
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #11  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by ezone
Does your car have to pass any emissions testing?

What you've done is not a proper repair no matter how you look at it. You fooled the computer and it might be happy for the moment but that's it.
Why didn't you just install a new correct sensor?


You are right. I am fooling the computer for the first few minutes every time I start the car. After that the sensor is hot with or without heater element. I can bet you haven't seen such a wild repair. Emission is due Sept. 2020. In spring when the weather warms up I will get one properly working O2 sensor from the junk yard. After your post I am curious to compare the graphs. No way I am paying for downstream O2 sensor.
Thanks
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #12  
ezone's Avatar
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 518
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

No way I am paying for downstream O2 sensor.
It should be far cheaper than an AF sensor
Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #13  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by ezone
It should be far cheaper than an AF sensor
Up and Downstream NTK are the same price $45 in Autozone. I did replace the upstream with new one of course,

Reply
Old Jan 29, 2019
  #14  
emich's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered!!
 
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 302
Likes: 3
Rep Power: 0
emich is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

Originally Posted by emich

You are right. I am fooling the computer for the first few minutes every time I start the car. After that the sensor is hot with or without heater element. I can bet you haven't seen such a wild repair. Emission is due Sept. 2020. In spring when the weather warms up I will get one properly working O2 sensor from the junk yard. After your post I am curious to compare the graphs. No way I am paying for downstream O2 sensor.
Thanks
Now I am hooked. I want to see and compare the graphs of sensors with and without heating element. I suspect the heating element system is BS. It can barely help warming up the sensor. It takes minutes the sensor to become hot so I can't hold it by hand anymore.
Reply
Old Feb 1, 2019
  #15  
ezone's Avatar
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 518
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Hacked P0141 secondary O2 sensor attaching old sensor with intact heater element

The O2 heater is TINY.
The heating element is for the sensing components inside the thimble, not the entire sensor body.
Of course it will eventually make the entire sensor warm....but the guts of the sensor were hot enough to work long before the rest of the sensor burned your fingers.

The typical O2 sensor sensing components have to reach around 600*F before the sensor becomes active.
The PCM will stay in open loop until the primary sensor becomes active...
A working heated O2 sensor can be active in as little as 10-30 seconds after startup.
As soon as the sensor is active, the PCM can enter closed loop





https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen_sensor

The sensor element is a ceramic cylinder plated inside and outside with porous platinum electrodes; the whole assembly is protected by a metal gauze. It operates by measuring the difference in oxygen between the exhaust gas and the external air and generates a voltage or changes its resistance depending on the difference between the two.The sensors only work effectively when heated to approximately 316 °C (600 °F), so most newer lambda probes have heating elements encased in the ceramic that bring the ceramic tip up to temperature quickly. Older probes, without heating elements, would eventually be heated by the exhaust, but there is a time lag between when the engine is started and when the components in the exhaust system come to a thermal equilibrium. The length of time required for the exhaust gases to bring the probe to temperature depends on the temperature of the ambient air and the geometry of the exhaust system. Without a heater, the process may take several minutes. There are pollution problems that are attributed to this slow start-up process, including a similar problem with the working temperature of a catalytic converter.

Last edited by ezone; Feb 1, 2019 at 04:04 PM.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Honda Civic Forum
Replies
Last Post
Tronixx
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
15
May 17, 2019 06:16 PM
tide55
7th Generation Civic 2001 - 2005
7
Dec 19, 2013 11:37 PM
sekhonjatt
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
9
Jun 24, 2013 08:09 PM
BrickM
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
1
Sep 27, 2012 02:25 PM
shortys1519
Buy, Sell, & Trade - Archive
4
Mar 31, 2008 07:25 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 AM.