Just finished my custom trunk less than 150$
05-15-2007
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Re: Just finished my custom trunk less than 150$
yeah, i had to build another box cuz I forgot to cut the hole on the first one, and when I tried to pull it apart, I pretty much destroyed it.
05-16-2007
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the angle that the front sits at makes that very difficult, it's ok though, my first box sucked anyway.
06-29-2007
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ok you guys, so i'm gonna be going through edmonton next tuesday, and i'm gonna pick me up a set of 10" alpine type R's with the sweet covers that are made for them. no more bitching about the crappy covers. then i'll have typeR all round too. gotta love it when stuff matches.
06-29-2007
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Re: Just finished my custom trunk less than 150$
Other than the expanded steel, I like it. I'd have rather saw about 3 bars across the subs as your grilles. One thing I wonder about is the use of a nail gun versus screws and a screw gun. I think structurally counter-sinking screws would have been more solid. Looks good though.
06-29-2007
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looks nice... and good job! building a box is time consuming, my first box i paid nothing to get it built, then the second with my W7 was a pro-wave box.. but good job again!
07-01-2007
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http://gallery.audioasylum.com/cgi/v...e=&w=640&h=480
That's a cut-away of one kind of Wave box. They're also referred to as transmission line boxes. They are designed to snake the port through the box. The purpose of this is to shift the phase of the driver's rear output by at least 90 degrees,which reinforces the frequencies near the driver's Fs (or resonant frequency). It is supposed to enhance the bass response.
The reason he called it a wavebox (most likely) is because he's from Atlanta, and there is at least one shop that specializes in this type of enclosure (Sound Sensations). They started building these type of boxes after Virtual Technologies came out with their VT box designed specifically for their VT Hammer speakers (great speakers with a great output for a single driver). I actually owned a VT Hammer Pro 10 and 12 and the corresponding boxes built by the manufacturer. It was not uncommon for people to ask me how many subs I was running,and never believing me when I told them a single 10 or 12. They could not believe that it was a single sub producing that type of response. They worked phenominally well. Sound Sensations designs the Wave boxes around the specific driver that is going in it (which has to be done because the box is very sensitive and driver specific). Their output is equally phenominal for single and dual enclosure designs. They are, however, very difficult to design, and require a lot of patience and time to conceptualize, design, and construct. You could be off a very small degree or 1/16th of an inch and it completely change the box and driver performance. They're not for the faint of heart.
That's a cut-away of one kind of Wave box. They're also referred to as transmission line boxes. They are designed to snake the port through the box. The purpose of this is to shift the phase of the driver's rear output by at least 90 degrees,which reinforces the frequencies near the driver's Fs (or resonant frequency). It is supposed to enhance the bass response.
The reason he called it a wavebox (most likely) is because he's from Atlanta, and there is at least one shop that specializes in this type of enclosure (Sound Sensations). They started building these type of boxes after Virtual Technologies came out with their VT box designed specifically for their VT Hammer speakers (great speakers with a great output for a single driver). I actually owned a VT Hammer Pro 10 and 12 and the corresponding boxes built by the manufacturer. It was not uncommon for people to ask me how many subs I was running,and never believing me when I told them a single 10 or 12. They could not believe that it was a single sub producing that type of response. They worked phenominally well. Sound Sensations designs the Wave boxes around the specific driver that is going in it (which has to be done because the box is very sensitive and driver specific). Their output is equally phenominal for single and dual enclosure designs. They are, however, very difficult to design, and require a lot of patience and time to conceptualize, design, and construct. You could be off a very small degree or 1/16th of an inch and it completely change the box and driver performance. They're not for the faint of heart.
07-02-2007
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Ah, yes I'm very familiar with TLs. Never heard that particular term. Dickason's latest LDC has one of the best write ups on them I've seen. It's all about internal sound damping.
I was under the impression the line was more about resonating a standing wave tuned to a lower frequency than the driver's Fs (hence its ability to linearly reach such low freqs, ie ~20Hz) by attempting to get that rear wave you mentioned 180° out of phase at the tuned frequency.
First real good mathematical TL model I've found:
A Mathematical Model for an Expanding Fiber Damped Transmission Line
First real good mathematical TL model I've found:
A Mathematical Model for an Expanding Fiber Damped Transmission Line
Last edited by christmaspie; 07-02-2007 at 01:42 PM. Reason: more detailed link
07-02-2007
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Ah, yes I'm very familiar with TLs. Never heard that particular term. Dickason's latest LDC has one of the best write ups on them I've seen. It's all about internal sound damping.
I was under the impression the line was more about resonating a standing wave tuned to a lower frequency than the driver's Fs (hence its ability to linearly reach such low freqs, ie ~20Hz) by attempting to get that rear wave you mentioned 180° out of phase at the tuned frequency.
First real good mathematical TL model I've found:
A Mathematical Model for an Expanding Fiber Damped Transmission Line
I was under the impression the line was more about resonating a standing wave tuned to a lower frequency than the driver's Fs (hence its ability to linearly reach such low freqs, ie ~20Hz) by attempting to get that rear wave you mentioned 180° out of phase at the tuned frequency.
First real good mathematical TL model I've found:
A Mathematical Model for an Expanding Fiber Damped Transmission Line
It's actually a little different than we both said, now that I look into it further. It's truly 360 degrees, (the people at VT (before they went defunct) had told me it was 90 degrees). Other stuff I've read say 360 degrees. The best explaination I've read thus far was posted on Elitecaraudio.com, and said the following:
A transmission line behaves very similarly to a vented enclosure in the fact that the back wave is used for re-inforcement of the front wave, but instead of 90 degrees out of phase like a vented box, the wave is 360 degrees out of phase, and there is no box, the driver attaches DIRECTLY to the resonant pipe. The benefits to this method include - better transient response, smaller enclosure for deeper resonance, smoother frequency response and impedance curve - allowing better damping from your amplifier, NO, and I mean NO port noise. They do NOT offer significantly enhanced output, except at resonance.
How do I know about transmission lines? I had two Infinity Pro 12's in a TL in my 86 Civic HB about 10 years ago. It was 9 cubic feet, damped with sand, it weighed over 400 pounds, and was tuned for 22Hz. Actually the DESIGN was for 22Hz, but it ended up landing closer to 18Hz - certainly a desireable, if not completely USEABLE error! I still have two 18" transmission lines tuned for 12Hz in my living room. They are as big as refrigerators, and take four guys to move them, and have 32 FEET of line in them!
The TL is a MUCH easier design than a vented cabinet, though more difficult to construct - the science comes with the stuffing, if you decide on a stuffed line. Here is the basic math:
Terminus = 25% of Sd_of_woofer
Opening of line = 50% of Sd_of_woofer
Length = wavelength_of_driver_Fs / 4
Driver = ideally a Qts of .4 or lower
These are the basic rules to an unstuffed line, and if you ever decide to buid one, I am sure you will not be disappointed.
A stuffed line follows the basic same rules, but the line is MUCH shorter, by at least 50%. The stuffing slows the speed of the sound through the line, making it appear much longer thus allowing a shorter line with the same resonant frequency as a long line.
A folded horn, (which is just a horn, folded...) on the other hand, offers EXTREME output, with absolute minimal movement of the driver cone. It is a buried driver, meaning, you never see the driver cone. The horn is attatched to the front of the driver, the driver is acoustically suspended in a saled box at the end of the horn, and the mouth of the horn is often times MANY TIMES the size of the driver Sd. Horns are NEVER stuffed, and are always physically HUGE, and get larger the lower down you go... i.e. a bass horn is dozens of times larger than a mid horn, which is many times larger than a highs horn. You will never see a low frequency bass horn in the car, there is simply not space for it. A properly designed horn can be an awesome experience, my favorites being from a company called Moondog Audio. For you who call yourselves TRUE audiophiles, listen to them sometime... here's a link to read some about them: http://www.fsaudioweb.com/listen/moondog.html For those of you that THOUGHT you liked horns as/when/if you listened to Avantguarde Horns, "you ain't never HEARD GOOD HORNS" - AvantGuarde horns SUCK next to the Moondogs... But I digress...
Anyway, there is a quick little primer on horns (folded or not) vs. the Transmission Line Loudspeaker.
How do I know about transmission lines? I had two Infinity Pro 12's in a TL in my 86 Civic HB about 10 years ago. It was 9 cubic feet, damped with sand, it weighed over 400 pounds, and was tuned for 22Hz. Actually the DESIGN was for 22Hz, but it ended up landing closer to 18Hz - certainly a desireable, if not completely USEABLE error! I still have two 18" transmission lines tuned for 12Hz in my living room. They are as big as refrigerators, and take four guys to move them, and have 32 FEET of line in them!
The TL is a MUCH easier design than a vented cabinet, though more difficult to construct - the science comes with the stuffing, if you decide on a stuffed line. Here is the basic math:
Terminus = 25% of Sd_of_woofer
Opening of line = 50% of Sd_of_woofer
Length = wavelength_of_driver_Fs / 4
Driver = ideally a Qts of .4 or lower
These are the basic rules to an unstuffed line, and if you ever decide to buid one, I am sure you will not be disappointed.
A stuffed line follows the basic same rules, but the line is MUCH shorter, by at least 50%. The stuffing slows the speed of the sound through the line, making it appear much longer thus allowing a shorter line with the same resonant frequency as a long line.
A folded horn, (which is just a horn, folded...) on the other hand, offers EXTREME output, with absolute minimal movement of the driver cone. It is a buried driver, meaning, you never see the driver cone. The horn is attatched to the front of the driver, the driver is acoustically suspended in a saled box at the end of the horn, and the mouth of the horn is often times MANY TIMES the size of the driver Sd. Horns are NEVER stuffed, and are always physically HUGE, and get larger the lower down you go... i.e. a bass horn is dozens of times larger than a mid horn, which is many times larger than a highs horn. You will never see a low frequency bass horn in the car, there is simply not space for it. A properly designed horn can be an awesome experience, my favorites being from a company called Moondog Audio. For you who call yourselves TRUE audiophiles, listen to them sometime... here's a link to read some about them: http://www.fsaudioweb.com/listen/moondog.html For those of you that THOUGHT you liked horns as/when/if you listened to Avantguarde Horns, "you ain't never HEARD GOOD HORNS" - AvantGuarde horns SUCK next to the Moondogs... But I digress...
Anyway, there is a quick little primer on horns (folded or not) vs. the Transmission Line Loudspeaker.
Here's the post:
http://www.the12volt.com/installbay/....asp?TID=46104
I'd built them to VT specs before using their dimensions, but I took their word on what they told me about them. Guess I should have researched a little deeper, and for that I apologize.
07-02-2007
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Although I realize these aren't your words I take issue with the following statements:
I really don't think it is 360°, page 95 of Dickason's LDC7 states "TLs are a class of the device that perform as a phase inverter for the low-frequencies." Of course moving something through 360 polar degrees is not any kind of inversion whatsoever.
Also, if you took the rear wave and moved it 360 degrees out of phase and added it to the front wave you would get (theoretically) complete cancellation.
The damping is designed to reduce the resonant modes.
Again, from Dickason (p95):
"TL speakers are short compared to the wavelength being produced and have horrendous resonant modes that require significant damping (the inclusion of a seriously resistive element)."
I'm not sure how much stock I put into that gentleman's information. TLs are intense and I'm going to be building one this summer with my buddy at ElectroVoice. I'll report back after I do that, also sorry this thread got wickedly hijacked.
A transmission line behaves very similarly to a vented enclosure in the fact that the back wave is used for re-inforcement of the front wave, but instead of 90 degrees out of phase like a vented box, the wave is 360 degrees out of phase, and there is no box, the driver attaches DIRECTLY to the resonant pipe.
Also, if you took the rear wave and moved it 360 degrees out of phase and added it to the front wave you would get (theoretically) complete cancellation.
Again, from Dickason (p95):
"TL speakers are short compared to the wavelength being produced and have horrendous resonant modes that require significant damping (the inclusion of a seriously resistive element)."
I'm not sure how much stock I put into that gentleman's information. TLs are intense and I'm going to be building one this summer with my buddy at ElectroVoice. I'll report back after I do that, also sorry this thread got wickedly hijacked.
07-02-2007
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Pretty solid. I think it came out better then mine, but i had a lil more stuff then yours. Here:
too lazy to clean up the wires so dont bother flamming me for it =P
too lazy to clean up the wires so dont bother flamming me for it =P
07-03-2007
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looks kinda cool to me 2k1 yours is pretty nice too but too many wires but its all good
07-04-2007
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you must invert the wiring on one sub to prevent cancellation it will be alot louder after you do that
08-20-2007
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I just got type R's all round, they sound amazing!! took like 4 hours to get them in though, I only bought them cuz they were on sale, and I am not disappointed at all. I made a few mods while installing, I moved my power wires to one side of the car, and the rca's to the other and I foamed my back deck. I now have almost no noise at all in my system. I'm a happy man.
08-22-2007
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Can we get an updated picture of the trunk now that you've replaced the "chicken wire" grilles? My imagination tells me it'll be sweet, but I just can't get over the initial pic. 
Good job doing it on a tight budget though - there's no need to spend hundreds just because someone said you should.
And 2k1_Stocker - as the other man says, tuck your wires, dude.
Good job doing it on a tight budget though - there's no need to spend hundreds just because someone said you should.
And 2k1_Stocker - as the other man says, tuck your wires, dude.
08-23-2007
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I still have the "chicken wire" grilles, I'm not gonna buy new grilles till I buy new subs (I never ended up going through Edmonton, I went through slave lake instead, it saved me a couple of hours.) But I'm still looking at the new type R's, I'll probable just order them from somewhere.
yes, the boxes are made to exactly the spec of the sub. I used one of them online calculators, and the sub sounds pretty damn good. (not really too loud, but good, it's loud enough to shake your eyeballs and make you feel sick though.)
yes, the boxes are made to exactly the spec of the sub. I used one of them online calculators, and the sub sounds pretty damn good. (not really too loud, but good, it's loud enough to shake your eyeballs and make you feel sick though.)
Last edited by mneuls; 08-23-2007 at 01:31 AM.
04-14-2008
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I just replaced the subs today check them out: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...ml#post4307643
04-14-2008
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If you hide the LEDs it would look alittle better..Thats just me..Other than that, it looks good
04-15-2008
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Re: Just finished my custom trunk less than 150$
I understand the point of the steel mesh...not a fan of it but everything else looks damn clean...I got a false wall that takes up 2 much room
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