legacyse

iTrader: (3)

I've just install a pair of Infinity 6012i up front still with stock headunit.
What i heard is it lack of bass almost sound worst than the stock speakers, only untill i really turn it up then the spearkers are much crisper(high notes) but still not enough bass. I've still got rears to be install.

Am i under powering the speakers? Would a new Headunit solve this problem, and what features do i look for (not planning on running subs)?
I've notice my left front sound a lot duller than front right. Any ideas on that?

Thanks
-LegacySE

LiKEaFeRiO

iTrader: (29)

I have a set of 6.5 Reference components up front.

The difference in bass running it off the stock deck and feeding it 75RMS is very noticeable.

You should have gotten a entry level speaker with low power handling and it would have suited you better if you have no plans of amping it.

2k1_Stockie

Without a doubt you would need more wattage running to those speakers. Amplifying them would definetly make them louder and bring out the bass in them but a new Head Unit would be your best bet as it would sound a LOT better. The stock speakers have a puny magnet that drives them which doesnt need much power at all. Most aftermarket decks push out anywhere from 15-22 watts RMS at a 4 ohm load. So your best bet would be a new head unit. And as for that speaker issue, check the connections.

legacyse

iTrader: (3)

LiKEaFeRiO - no i said i'm not planing on running a sub, i will run an amp but not for a while since i'll busy for a few months. I'm at the beginning stage where i've installed the speakers and still need to buy a headunit.

I'm wondering if i pair the speakers up with a headunit rated @ 22rms would do me any good? Because right now it sounded pretty bad, and i'm concern that one of the speaker sound differently.

edit:
2k1_Stockie - I don't know anything about headunits and i heard everyone says alpine is good, but what makes them better? I planned on getting a kenwood MP-4028..

2k1_Stockie

If you ask me i didn't noticed much difference between alpine and pioneer, besides the dramatic prices. If anything the alpines just push out a little more wattage? Clarity is almost the same. Then again both have a built in eq to tweak but not much diff. You will notice significantly greater clarity with any aftermarket head unit. But if your rear deck still has the stock speakers you may notice that they might over power the fronts doors a little. Thats what i noticed the first time i changed my doors.

LiKEaFeRiO

iTrader: (29)

The new headunit would improve your sound quality + listen louder but it wouldn't do much for the lack of bass.

If money is an issue I would first buy an amp + RCA line out converter to help with the sound...no use having a nice headunit if the sound sucks.

Switch the wires for the speaker that sounds funky...it might help.

legacyse

iTrader: (3)

i see, thanks for your advice.
I will recheck the wires later.
I still don't understand what can boost the bass a little in terms of electronic component. Does more wattage/rms boost bass?

2k1_Stockie

More wattage doesnt exactly mean more bass, definetly louder. If its bass your looking for, Its basically the type of frequency that goes through to the speakers. If the stock head unit has an eq, try and up the low's from there and see how it sounds.

gizcivic

they are under powered and maybe the wires are crossed
I have an eclipse head unit with after market speakers no
amp and they sound nice. you should always have more power amp wise
then the speakers just turn the gain down

LowSky

iTrader: (2)

IMO infinity speakers have to be amped and are great at making high notes, i know you dont want to use a sub but infinity makes a sub called the basslink its prepowered and takes up a little room but its cost is a little high (ebay sellls for alot cheaper)

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yes infinity speakers need amping even if they're base speakers and the amp is small. world of difference, and enough bass to rattle mirror (mostly midbass). good deck helps too like alpine.

WhiteRabbit

simple. the stock speakers were designed to be able to play "bass". your infinities were not. its as simple as that.

by the time you can drive the midrange at a sufficient volume to get the desired output, uppermidrange is distorting, the tweeter is screaming, the mid is practically bottoming out if not literally, and the whole system is just not playing as desired.

youve got two options. augment the system with a subwoofer that can play high enough, or buy new speakers that play as low and as loud simultaneously as you want.

your stocks probably had the frequency response you wanted, simply not the volume capability nor the clarity you wanted. the infinities wont even have the FR. nothing you do with them is gonna give you the performance you want, unless you are close to what you want.

WhiteRabbit

the dull sound, by the way, comes from a steeper rolloff on the mid. the crossover point is so high that the off axis nature of the drivers side speaker is playing a factor in how high it can play compared to the relatively on axis passenger side.

now, you CAN fix this problem while keeping the drivers by simply tilting the drivers more on axis. This usually requires utilizing a kickpanel location.

your other option would be to tune up the top end of the midrange with a stereo EQ.

legacyse

iTrader: (3)

Whiterabbit - Which way should i turn the driver side tweeter towards/away?

Both of my front are pointing relatively straight to the sunroof.

lxcivic2k1

People say Alpine because they aren't made to look pritty for new people into stereos....they are made to perform. I have an alpine hu and its 10x better than the sony in my old car.

booba5185

^^^yup alpine is the best i have ever heard, I've had 2 panasonics, 2 blaupunkts, 2 pioneer, 3 sonys, and yes, even one rampage.

WhiteRabbit

oh, I was talking about your midranges. I thought you were talking about the mids, not the tweeters! try placing the tweets on the a pillars. a little higher than our gauge cluster bump on-dash, and firing towards each other, give or take. thats the standard position to start with. from there with the balence set to even and the mids disconnected, id start playing with the fine position (tape or velcro work great for this) till they sounded "balenced" (as in, things in the center of the car were centered, things ot the sides were to the sides, and the sound was not too fatiguing).

.....................................

Additionally, I have a theory I think might work really well for you. this is just a theory, so I dont know if its got any basis in reality, but I think its worth trying.

find a piece of music that has a kickdrum or bass guitar in the center of the stage (you can use headphones to test this, the instrument will sound like its in the middle of your head rather than to one side or the other). Now put the cd in your car with ONLY the mids connected, and mess with the balence control (left right) till that instrument is as close to center in the car as you can get it. (thatll be around the radio cluster, rather than coming from the drivers door.) youll have to fade to the passenger side a bit to do this. dont worry about the unevenness, its normal.

when you do this, you might notice that rather than "move" from left to right as you use the balence control, the instrument "fades out" form the left side and simultaneously "fades in" to the right side. if this happens, rather than movement, try flipping the phase of one midrange (usually the drivers side). now see if you can "push" the instrument to center, rather than the fading thing. if you still cant, put the phase back to normal.

you may have to do some minor boosting in the midbass range (~250 Hz) if you have the drivers out of phase. maybe not. maybe out of phase youll get MORE midbass! worth a shot, anyways!

okay, so now you have the mids "centered". now read up to what I said about the tweets, and repeat that leaving the balence control where it is

I think this may do wonders for your dull drivers side. as well as make your tonal balence of the whole stereo WAY better. its jsut a theory, though.

once you have that set up, dont forget to experiment flipping phase of the tweet to see if that sounds any better. you may have to shift the tweets around to recenter them if you do flip phase.

so with no EQ< no time alignment, I think you can not only fix your dull problem but get the stage sounding better as well. at this point youll know a good position to permanently fix the tweeters, too.

if you decide to try that, lemme know if it works. im curious.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

i think this is another case of bad install. my amped infinity cheapos have way more bass than stock, enough to rattle the mirror.

WhiteRabbit

then it may be a phase thing for him. Id be curious if he swapped phase on one mid and suddenly got his bass back

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

ya i remember with my old crap car and the crap shop that installed my speakers, i was getting zero bass. i had em switch the wires and big difference.

legacyse

iTrader: (3)

hmm i think i got myself mixed up, i have a set of 2 way speaker, so the one in the middle is called tweeter right?
Anyways, today after listening to it on my way to class, i've adjust to -1 (towards left) in order for the sound to become "center" as compare to coming from the right side.
I've also check the wires. Currently, green-yellow goes to postive and grey-red? goes to negative. I've switch them around but i couldn't tell the difference lol! maybe i didn't turn it up.
---
edit: i guess i was expecting too much from the stock headunit, however it does sound very clear compare to stockers.

SimpleFun

If I might throw my 2 cents in. With a stock deck there is almost no way you will be able to push anything after market. Any mid range notes still require more power then the deck can push out. I have a pair of sony 6x9 that sound like crap if you put them on a deck by there selfs I've had a pair or 6inch that I put in the door and still crap after a deck change a little better but the addition of evan a simple amp "45 mins max install time" will give you the little extra bass. As for increasing the bass right off the deck GOOD LUCK homeslice. You'll probley find this problem a little later but you'll be going down the street and the music will start to fade then come back up. The deck can not push what the speckers are trying to pull. Bass takes more then High due to the bigger driver size that is required to be pushed to make the sound. If you want I can probley come up with some sort of example like a picture but hey get a little 50x4 amp and the problem will be solved for now intell you start to crave the bass.

WhiteRabbit

oh, theres nothing wrong with the stock deck and bass performance. other factors, for sure.

ever sit in a stock chevy colorado? TONS of bass from the front speakers. of course, its all sloppy, and overblows the midrange. once new speakers were in there that sounded "right" of course it would sound like it had less bass. you are missing the overblown bass and the harmonic distortion! Now, is this the case compared to stock honda speakers? dont know. Its been awhile since ive heard a stock system. Ill arrange if I can to take a listen sometime, but I predict something similar is going on.

do me a favor, sinc eyou can test this too. Grab a track you have (preferably not mp3) thats real heavy in the bass guitar and kickdrum department. Does the bass guitar sound dull? does the kickdrum sound sloppy? or does it sound reasonably accurate? give it a test and see how it compares

Ill take "clean" bass to "lots of" bass ANY day

WhiteRabbit

as to what I was saying about the tweeters, I didnt realize you had coaxials. They should twist in their mounts though, so you should be able to adjust their position, even though they are stuck in the doors (and nothing wrong with them being low in the doors!)

they dont need to be facing the same direction on each side of the car. so as to my tutorial before, nothing changes, really. you can adjust the balence till the lows are centered, then adjust the tilt of the tweets till they sound centered. if that takes the drivers side tweet pointing at the floor and the passengers side pointing right at you, so be it! could be any number of combinations, though

but its physical testing that'll do it

WhiteRabbit

by the way, if you want "a little" bass but dont want any subwoofers, check these out:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...number=264-832

you could toss these into your rear deck. now, these (compared to your infinities) WOULD prefer to be amped, but its not neccesary at all.

I love using these for folks who dont want to run subwoofers. its a great way to extend the range of the stereo without taking any space.

a shame you dont live near the bay area in california, I could demo their amazing performance for the money but its worth considering! (they will need a lowpass crossover though. if you seriously like the idea, we can talk about that)

BTW the last car I put these into was a civic hybrid with no amplifiers (though an avic N1). performed great!