with this combo kill my alt....?
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From: Weyburn ,Sask. 90210
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with this combo kill my alt....?
i have a 
phoenix gold x1200.1 on the way, and will be running my two S10L5's.
how likely is it this will be too much of a drain on the alt?
^remedies?
phoenix gold x1200.1 on the way, and will be running my two S10L5's.how likely is it this will be too much of a drain on the alt?
^remedies?
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Yes.
I have a JL 500/1 (500-600 watts RMS) and I am really not using it too much till I can put a cap in cause its killing the car.
Thats a 1200 watt RMS amp.
First off a Capacitor will not do much with that enormous of a drain. You need to get a High Output Alternator (one guy on ebay sells em round $250-$300 and he has excellent reputation). Another solution is a 2nd battery NEXT to the amp in the trunk but thats not any better really for the alt, just means you can play longer with the car off.
A 2 Fahrad cap is going to let your amp get all the power it needs faster and without the voltage dropping on huge hits, too.
1st get a high output alt. 2nd a 2 fahrad cap (1.5 = barely enough so go 2).
EDIT:
Another thing you might want to do with all this juice going is to ground everything under the hood with like 8 gauge or 4 gauge wire like those "Hyper Ground" kits you see everywhere. There might be a DIY on this site too cause I know I read something like it about this. But getting better grounding throughout your car will allow the car to run smoother and also will help keep your electronics healthier.
I have a JL 500/1 (500-600 watts RMS) and I am really not using it too much till I can put a cap in cause its killing the car.
Thats a 1200 watt RMS amp.
First off a Capacitor will not do much with that enormous of a drain. You need to get a High Output Alternator (one guy on ebay sells em round $250-$300 and he has excellent reputation). Another solution is a 2nd battery NEXT to the amp in the trunk but thats not any better really for the alt, just means you can play longer with the car off.
A 2 Fahrad cap is going to let your amp get all the power it needs faster and without the voltage dropping on huge hits, too.
1st get a high output alt. 2nd a 2 fahrad cap (1.5 = barely enough so go 2).
EDIT:
Another thing you might want to do with all this juice going is to ground everything under the hood with like 8 gauge or 4 gauge wire like those "Hyper Ground" kits you see everywhere. There might be a DIY on this site too cause I know I read something like it about this. But getting better grounding throughout your car will allow the car to run smoother and also will help keep your electronics healthier.
Last edited by diskreet; Mar 16, 2005 at 10:27 PM.
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No, that won't kill your alternator. There's no need to go jumping the gun to get an alternator because this guy thinks you need one. The best thing to do is to try it out, and monitor your voltage while the car is running and off to see how much it drops. That would determine what needs to be done.
True, the Big 3 is a good idea, but you don't start with the alternator first. You generally go in order of cheapest to most expensive to try to "fix" problems. Starting with regrounding, then moving to larger/ho battery, and lastly an alternator.
The Thing is, this little wattage will do nothing to damage the intergity of the electrical system. I've ran much more off of the stock electrical (and battery) with no problem.
As for the cap, the cap will do nothing by way of saving any electrical components. All it's going to do, and if anyone here cares to try and prove this wrong I can provide you someone to contact to get $5000 if you can prove it with science/physics, all it's going to do is maybe prevent dimming. It's not a fix for dimming, and it does not always do anything for dimming issues. What is a cap, and it's functions then, one might ask? I'll get into that in a second. Make sure you understand this though Caps do nothing for the electrical other than become a potential (not necesseraily going to work 100% of the time) solution for dimming. They do nothing by way of fixing electrical problems, NOTHING.
What is a cap?
"Stiffening Capacitor" (note capitals) is a trademark of Autosound
2000. However, "stiffening capacitor" (note lowercase), as a generic
term, refers to a large capacitor (several thousand microfarads or
greater) placed in parallel with an amplifier. The purpose of doing so
is to provide a sort of reserve power source from which the amplifier
can rapidly draw power when it needs it (such as during a deep bass
note). The electrical theory is that when the amplifier attempts to
draw a large amount of current, not only will the battery be relatively
slow to respond, but the voltage at the amplifier will be a little lower
than the voltage at the battery itself (this is called "line drop"). A
capacitor at the amplifier which is charged to the battery voltage will
try to stabilize the voltage level at the amplifier, dumping current
into the amplifier. Another way to think about it is that a capacitor
in parallel with a load acts as a low pass filter (see Section 3.10),
and the voltage level dropping at the amplifier will appear as an AC
waveform superimposed upon a DC "wave". The capacitor, then, will try
to filter out this AC wave, leaving the pure DC which the amplifier
requires.
Do I need a capacitor?
Before installation, it's often difficult to predict whether or not a
capacitor will be beneficial to you. It's generally best to install
the audio equipment prior to making the determination, so that you can
address which symptoms need to be remedied and assess the severity of
the symptoms. This will not only help you decide whether or not you
need a capacitor, but also how much capacitance would be beneficial.
The most common symptom in need of added capacitance is headlight
dimming (and sometimes dimming of the interior/dash lights). It's
caused by a drop in system voltage associated with excessive current
draw. While there may indeed be several loads drawing substantial
amounts of current from the electrical system (eg. heat, AC, and so
forth), it's usually the transient draws that best manifest themselves
in noticeable dimming. This is partly because our visual systems are
most sensitive to detecting rapidly changing intensity levels rather
than steady absolute differences.
Once you've assessed whether or not the dimming is noticeable (and
sufficiently annoying), you must decide whether a capacitor is
warranted or if you'd be better served by upgrading the alternator.
After initially having your alternator and battery checked out (some
places will do this for free), the choice should be based on the
severity of the dimming.
A commonly-used estimate for determining the appropriate size capacitor
is 1F/kW (one farad per kilowatt). For example, a system running at
300W would need a 0.3F (or 300,000uF) capacitor. However, there are
several variables at play here, including the capabilities of the
vehicle's electrical system (which generally varies from idle to higher
RPMs), the efficiency of the amplifiers, and the listening habits of
the user (ie. the tone controls and the type of music). These factors
should all be considered when making the determination. Moreover, the
voltage drop can be so severe that added capacitance is nothing more
than a fluctuation. That is, even several Farads of capacitance would not
be able to sustain the voltage for as long as the drop persists. This
is when an alternator upgrade may be in order (maybe).
Will dimming go away by replacing alt and grounds?
A common myth in the car audio community is that upgrading the power or
ground wire to the amplifier will result in the amplifier drawing less
current and therefore decreasing the voltage fluctuation. While the
logic is sound, the premise is not. Most amplifiers on the market have
semi-regulated supplies which don't maintain a steady power output at a
range of supply voltages. This is reflected in the power ratings
provided by many manufacturers; some provide ratings for their
amplifiers at two different voltages, and the lower voltage almost
always causes the amp to deliver less power. In general, the
difference in power output tends to correspond well with the supply
voltage such that the current draw remains roughly constant (assuming
somewhat similar efficiency). Consequently, upgrading the power/ground
wiring, which serves to increase the voltage at the amplifier's
terminals, will not reduce headlight dimming.
What to look for in a cap(should you choose to use one):
The single most important attribute is the capacitance value (expressed
in Farads). Put simply, more is better. Another important
consideration is to make sure the maximum voltage rating of the
capacitor safely exceeds the operating voltage of your vehicle's
electrical system. In addition, ESR and ESL values may be provided
with some capacitors to essentially indicate the amount of voltage drop
that occurs when a capacitor is delivering current. Smaller values are
better in this regard
When should I upgrade the battery, or add a second battery?
The battery is most important when the engine is turned off, because it
supplies all of power to the audio system. The stock battery in your
car may not be up to the task of running a stereo with multiple (or
large) amplifiers if it can't supply enough current to the amplifiers.
Upgrading your current battery to a larger model may help solve the
problem because batteries like the Optima 800 offer a larger number of
cold cranking amps.
Generally, adding a second battery is great if you want to listen to
your stereo with the car turned off (and be able to start the car again
later!). This is accomplished using a dual-battery isolator: a device
which allows the second battery to be charged by the alternator, but
prevents the amplifiers that are connected to the second battery from
drawing any power from the main battery. Installing a second battery
may be done instead of upgrading the main battery.
That said, NO, those pieces will not, and I repeat,will not, kill your battery.Install it and see what happens, nothing, cept maybe some headlight dimming. That doesn't bother you, then you'll be fine.
No, that won't kill your alternator. There's no need to go jumping the gun to get an alternator because this guy thinks you need one. The best thing to do is to try it out, and monitor your voltage while the car is running and off to see how much it drops. That would determine what needs to be done.
True, the Big 3 is a good idea, but you don't start with the alternator first. You generally go in order of cheapest to most expensive to try to "fix" problems. Starting with regrounding, then moving to larger/ho battery, and lastly an alternator.
The Thing is, this little wattage will do nothing to damage the intergity of the electrical system. I've ran much more off of the stock electrical (and battery) with no problem.
As for the cap, the cap will do nothing by way of saving any electrical components. All it's going to do, and if anyone here cares to try and prove this wrong I can provide you someone to contact to get $5000 if you can prove it with science/physics, all it's going to do is maybe prevent dimming. It's not a fix for dimming, and it does not always do anything for dimming issues. What is a cap, and it's functions then, one might ask? I'll get into that in a second. Make sure you understand this though Caps do nothing for the electrical other than become a potential (not necesseraily going to work 100% of the time) solution for dimming. They do nothing by way of fixing electrical problems, NOTHING.
What is a cap?
"Stiffening Capacitor" (note capitals) is a trademark of Autosound
2000. However, "stiffening capacitor" (note lowercase), as a generic
term, refers to a large capacitor (several thousand microfarads or
greater) placed in parallel with an amplifier. The purpose of doing so
is to provide a sort of reserve power source from which the amplifier
can rapidly draw power when it needs it (such as during a deep bass
note). The electrical theory is that when the amplifier attempts to
draw a large amount of current, not only will the battery be relatively
slow to respond, but the voltage at the amplifier will be a little lower
than the voltage at the battery itself (this is called "line drop"). A
capacitor at the amplifier which is charged to the battery voltage will
try to stabilize the voltage level at the amplifier, dumping current
into the amplifier. Another way to think about it is that a capacitor
in parallel with a load acts as a low pass filter (see Section 3.10),
and the voltage level dropping at the amplifier will appear as an AC
waveform superimposed upon a DC "wave". The capacitor, then, will try
to filter out this AC wave, leaving the pure DC which the amplifier
requires.
Do I need a capacitor?
Before installation, it's often difficult to predict whether or not a
capacitor will be beneficial to you. It's generally best to install
the audio equipment prior to making the determination, so that you can
address which symptoms need to be remedied and assess the severity of
the symptoms. This will not only help you decide whether or not you
need a capacitor, but also how much capacitance would be beneficial.
The most common symptom in need of added capacitance is headlight
dimming (and sometimes dimming of the interior/dash lights). It's
caused by a drop in system voltage associated with excessive current
draw. While there may indeed be several loads drawing substantial
amounts of current from the electrical system (eg. heat, AC, and so
forth), it's usually the transient draws that best manifest themselves
in noticeable dimming. This is partly because our visual systems are
most sensitive to detecting rapidly changing intensity levels rather
than steady absolute differences.
Once you've assessed whether or not the dimming is noticeable (and
sufficiently annoying), you must decide whether a capacitor is
warranted or if you'd be better served by upgrading the alternator.
After initially having your alternator and battery checked out (some
places will do this for free), the choice should be based on the
severity of the dimming.
A commonly-used estimate for determining the appropriate size capacitor
is 1F/kW (one farad per kilowatt). For example, a system running at
300W would need a 0.3F (or 300,000uF) capacitor. However, there are
several variables at play here, including the capabilities of the
vehicle's electrical system (which generally varies from idle to higher
RPMs), the efficiency of the amplifiers, and the listening habits of
the user (ie. the tone controls and the type of music). These factors
should all be considered when making the determination. Moreover, the
voltage drop can be so severe that added capacitance is nothing more
than a fluctuation. That is, even several Farads of capacitance would not
be able to sustain the voltage for as long as the drop persists. This
is when an alternator upgrade may be in order (maybe).
Will dimming go away by replacing alt and grounds?
A common myth in the car audio community is that upgrading the power or
ground wire to the amplifier will result in the amplifier drawing less
current and therefore decreasing the voltage fluctuation. While the
logic is sound, the premise is not. Most amplifiers on the market have
semi-regulated supplies which don't maintain a steady power output at a
range of supply voltages. This is reflected in the power ratings
provided by many manufacturers; some provide ratings for their
amplifiers at two different voltages, and the lower voltage almost
always causes the amp to deliver less power. In general, the
difference in power output tends to correspond well with the supply
voltage such that the current draw remains roughly constant (assuming
somewhat similar efficiency). Consequently, upgrading the power/ground
wiring, which serves to increase the voltage at the amplifier's
terminals, will not reduce headlight dimming.
What to look for in a cap(should you choose to use one):
The single most important attribute is the capacitance value (expressed
in Farads). Put simply, more is better. Another important
consideration is to make sure the maximum voltage rating of the
capacitor safely exceeds the operating voltage of your vehicle's
electrical system. In addition, ESR and ESL values may be provided
with some capacitors to essentially indicate the amount of voltage drop
that occurs when a capacitor is delivering current. Smaller values are
better in this regard
When should I upgrade the battery, or add a second battery?
The battery is most important when the engine is turned off, because it
supplies all of power to the audio system. The stock battery in your
car may not be up to the task of running a stereo with multiple (or
large) amplifiers if it can't supply enough current to the amplifiers.
Upgrading your current battery to a larger model may help solve the
problem because batteries like the Optima 800 offer a larger number of
cold cranking amps.
Generally, adding a second battery is great if you want to listen to
your stereo with the car turned off (and be able to start the car again
later!). This is accomplished using a dual-battery isolator: a device
which allows the second battery to be charged by the alternator, but
prevents the amplifiers that are connected to the second battery from
drawing any power from the main battery. Installing a second battery
may be done instead of upgrading the main battery.
That said, NO, those pieces will not, and I repeat,will not, kill your battery.Install it and see what happens, nothing, cept maybe some headlight dimming. That doesn't bother you, then you'll be fine.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 Man you guys insist on hooking up all sorts of crap to an alternator that can not even power the car properly. It's small as it is so don't add to the weakness. Even using the frieking turn signal dims the dash lights when it flashes.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: NV
Rep Power: 812 When I had the voltmeter hooked up, I could see the needle move up and down about 1mm every time the signal would flash. It was quite funny actually.
Thread Starter
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From: Weyburn ,Sask. 90210
Rep Power: 0 thx to everyone, clear as mud.
i never have any dimming issues with my turn signals on. i have experianced a dimming effect like, once a month i notice it for a sec, and at that tiem i am not running anything, other than my lights, fogs, and ac and aftermarket HU. and its sooo freakin rare as it is. i think i'll just wire the puppy up, and see how it goes.
btw, if i do get dimming, and caps dotn do ****, what can i do to fix that?
i never have any dimming issues with my turn signals on. i have experianced a dimming effect like, once a month i notice it for a sec, and at that tiem i am not running anything, other than my lights, fogs, and ac and aftermarket HU. and its sooo freakin rare as it is. i think i'll just wire the puppy up, and see how it goes.
btw, if i do get dimming, and caps dotn do ****, what can i do to fix that?
Last time I had this much fun some furniture got broken!
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From: PA
Rep Power: 360 yeah but honestly I am not going to agree with him not getting a H.O. alt cause no matter how you look at it, even if the alt could push that much, the stress from draining exactly as much/more power than the alt can output its a HUGE STRESS on the whole electrical system of the car and the alt will probably end up failing prematurely.
As for a cap if you get one the reason it helps is yes it stores electricity so when the bass hits that depletes itself first. This means LESS STRESS on the alt and battery. Talking to another member last month he said he had 2 JL Audio 500/1's so he was running the same watts RMS and he said he needed a new alternator after a short few months of having them. They played but too much stress on the amp.
The downside to a High Output alt is the fact that sometimes, i don't know like 33% or something, they die earlier than a normal alternator of the same size (for same car). So either way you will be replacing your alt sooner or later with this.
This is a perfect example of better safe than sorry. A high output alt will help put less strain on the other electronics of the car. A cap will help a little also but if bass is constant and not just hits like in a normal song then it wont do anything since it cant charge fast enough since there is no time where the amp is not drawing a significant amount of current.
As for a cap if you get one the reason it helps is yes it stores electricity so when the bass hits that depletes itself first. This means LESS STRESS on the alt and battery. Talking to another member last month he said he had 2 JL Audio 500/1's so he was running the same watts RMS and he said he needed a new alternator after a short few months of having them. They played but too much stress on the amp.
The downside to a High Output alt is the fact that sometimes, i don't know like 33% or something, they die earlier than a normal alternator of the same size (for same car). So either way you will be replacing your alt sooner or later with this.
This is a perfect example of better safe than sorry. A high output alt will help put less strain on the other electronics of the car. A cap will help a little also but if bass is constant and not just hits like in a normal song then it wont do anything since it cant charge fast enough since there is no time where the amp is not drawing a significant amount of current.
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From: Harker heights Tx
Rep Power: 388 ok i'm running the yellow top replacement for an 02 ex civic sedan with a Alumapro 5 farad cap currently running 2 phoenix gold 600.2 and one 1200.1 it will not kill your alternator if you have it setup right but this is from my experience and i've had many systems even one where I was running 4 amps at once.
1- its in how hard you push your system
2- its in the setup for power distrobution
3- a second battery and large cap can help if you have a switch to control the charge for your battery system
1- its in how hard you push your system
2- its in the setup for power distrobution
3- a second battery and large cap can help if you have a switch to control the charge for your battery system
Electric Boogaloo...
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From: Want to play a game?
Rep Power: 328 When upgrading an alternator, be careful in your purchase, for
there are some potential problems. An alternator which advertises a
certain output level may only achieve that output at very high engine
RPM ranges, for instance. Also, the new alternator must be adjusted to
provide an output voltage within a reasonable range in terms of the
voltage regulator.
Be sure of what you're buying...
there are some potential problems. An alternator which advertises a
certain output level may only achieve that output at very high engine
RPM ranges, for instance. Also, the new alternator must be adjusted to
provide an output voltage within a reasonable range in terms of the
voltage regulator.
Be sure of what you're buying...
I'm The Ballz Of 7th Gen
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From: Western, Mass
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Originally Posted by PopcornPlaya
If your **** dims when you turn anything on in the system, the alternator is faulty,and you need to file a waranty claim.
Electric Boogaloo...
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From: Want to play a game?
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Originally Posted by MishBallzEM2
lol..my lights dim when i turn my AC on..haha i have an 04...is that faulty?
Registered!!
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From: Barrie Ontario, Canada
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Originally Posted by MishBallzEM2
lol..my lights dim when i turn my AC on..haha i have an 04...is that faulty?
haha mine dim when i turn on the ac. or the rear defrost.. i think its jsut wut the civics do. as it's done it sonce i got it off the show room floor
also a 2004 vic
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From: PA
Rep Power: 360 rear defrost + AC? are huge current draws so yes your lights might dim when it first turns on.
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From: Want to play a game?
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Originally Posted by kickercivic1
Ya the dealer is going to give you new alternator if you have system hooked up. GOOD ONE.
If you don't have anything but stock electrical hooked up (like no ice, aftermarket draws on the electrical system) then yes, it's faulty, and I'd bitch my dealer out and demand they replace it.
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