Headlights Dimming for Subs?
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whether a capacitor will or will not work is not something that cna be said for sure, one way or the other! I cant tell you if a capacitor will cure yoru dimming at idle, although if it is diminished dimming at higher RPM's, thats certainly a sign that your current draw isnt *too* bad!
whether a capacitor will or will not work is based on one thing, and one thing alone. empirical testing! some cars they do squat, and some cars they cure everything! for every car that its worked on, youll find another where it didnt work at all.
For example, a 2 farad capacitor cured all dimming in my car, low volume, high volume, idle, or 3500 rms on the freeway. gone!
is this proof they work? nope! is it proof that the statement "capacitors do nothing!" is blatantly false? you betcha!
So why get a capacitor? why get a second battery? why upgrade the alternator? these are all very good questions!
do you have $300 to spend on a new alternator? I sure dont! But do you really care if there is sufficient charge to keep up with the stereo? Im guessing you only care about two things:
#1 make the dimming stop.
#2 the stereo isnt so drastic as to cause the battery to die under responsible listening conditions.
If these are the only two things you care about, is it really neccesary to fork over the cash for a new alternator? heck no! why? A capacitor has the POTENTIAL to do this for ya! but we dont know one way or the other till you try it!
second battery? let me tell you about a person goal I have with my own stereo. (heres the narciccistic part where I talk abotu myself) I want to be able to go to a drive in movie and listen to the whole thing with the motor off, turn the car on, and go home. theres no way my stock electrical system could do that! so, for me, upgrading the battery or adding batteries becomes neccesary!
but this goal has nothing to do with light dimming, or dead starts! could it cure light dimming and forever prevent dead batteries? possibly! but why spend $120 on a new battery and isolation system, not to mention changing significant amounts of wiring, when I could spend $25 on a cap off ebay and daisychain it to my steroe now!
thats FAR cheaper, and has the potential to satisfy the original goals!
and THAT is why I reccommend trying a capacitor.
whether a capacitor will or will not work is based on one thing, and one thing alone. empirical testing! some cars they do squat, and some cars they cure everything! for every car that its worked on, youll find another where it didnt work at all.
For example, a 2 farad capacitor cured all dimming in my car, low volume, high volume, idle, or 3500 rms on the freeway. gone!
is this proof they work? nope! is it proof that the statement "capacitors do nothing!" is blatantly false? you betcha!
So why get a capacitor? why get a second battery? why upgrade the alternator? these are all very good questions!
do you have $300 to spend on a new alternator? I sure dont! But do you really care if there is sufficient charge to keep up with the stereo? Im guessing you only care about two things:
#1 make the dimming stop.
#2 the stereo isnt so drastic as to cause the battery to die under responsible listening conditions.
If these are the only two things you care about, is it really neccesary to fork over the cash for a new alternator? heck no! why? A capacitor has the POTENTIAL to do this for ya! but we dont know one way or the other till you try it!
second battery? let me tell you about a person goal I have with my own stereo. (heres the narciccistic part where I talk abotu myself) I want to be able to go to a drive in movie and listen to the whole thing with the motor off, turn the car on, and go home. theres no way my stock electrical system could do that! so, for me, upgrading the battery or adding batteries becomes neccesary!
but this goal has nothing to do with light dimming, or dead starts! could it cure light dimming and forever prevent dead batteries? possibly! but why spend $120 on a new battery and isolation system, not to mention changing significant amounts of wiring, when I could spend $25 on a cap off ebay and daisychain it to my steroe now!
thats FAR cheaper, and has the potential to satisfy the original goals!
and THAT is why I reccommend trying a capacitor.
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From: Boise, Idaho
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Originally posted by _Xtreme_Rage_
tfnaaf
CUTE SYSTEM, DID YOU GET IT FROM WALMART??
LOL
GIVE ME 1 MONTH BITCH, I'LL SHOW YOU A SYSTEM THAT WILL PUT THAT WALMART SUB TO SHAME BITCH
tfnaaf
CUTE SYSTEM, DID YOU GET IT FROM WALMART??
LOL
GIVE ME 1 MONTH BITCH, I'LL SHOW YOU A SYSTEM THAT WILL PUT THAT WALMART SUB TO SHAME BITCH
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327 PLEASE DO IMPRESS US SOME MORE! IM JUST A CAR AUDIO N00B ANYWAY. THIS IS MY FIRST SYSTEM THAT IVE BUILT. (FOR THIS CAR) GRANTED IM NOT A AUDIO GOD LIKE YOURSELF BUT I DO WISH TO SOMEDAY BE JUST LIKE YOU! AND TO START OFF MY QUEST I'LL START WITH "CAPS ON"
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327 BTW YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT THIS LINK IT WILL GIVE YOU SOME MUCH NEEDED IDEAS FOR YOUR CAR
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/you_m..._ricer_if.html
http://www.goingfaster.com/spo/you_m..._ricer_if.html
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From: bay area, california
Rep Power: 337 "You have to find a way to drive AROUND speed bumps in a parking lot. "
who else has to do this with stock suspension?
"You have more stereo WATTS than engine TORQUE!"
man, thats rough, power is so cheap these days.... welp! I'm a ricer, who else here?
"You claim you lost because you missed a shift... and your car is an automatic."
anyone else besides me and custom2k1's civic pop out of second gear when making right hand turns?
"If you think that 180 horsepower and 185 lb/ft of torque are impressive for a ‘mildly’ modified engine."
anyone ever seen a 90 HP porche motor in a Karmann Ghia?
"You took your rear seat out and gutted your interior for weight savings but you installed 400 pounds of electronics, neon, DVD, Sony, etc. "
what about taking the rear seat and gutting the back to FIT 400 pounds of electronics, fiberglass, wood, and speakers?
who else has to do this with stock suspension?
"You have more stereo WATTS than engine TORQUE!"
man, thats rough, power is so cheap these days.... welp! I'm a ricer, who else here?
"You claim you lost because you missed a shift... and your car is an automatic."
anyone else besides me and custom2k1's civic pop out of second gear when making right hand turns?
"If you think that 180 horsepower and 185 lb/ft of torque are impressive for a ‘mildly’ modified engine."
anyone ever seen a 90 HP porche motor in a Karmann Ghia?
"You took your rear seat out and gutted your interior for weight savings but you installed 400 pounds of electronics, neon, DVD, Sony, etc. "
what about taking the rear seat and gutting the back to FIT 400 pounds of electronics, fiberglass, wood, and speakers?
Electric Boogaloo...
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From: Want to play a game?
Rep Power: 328 so the cap debate comes up yet again...
ok, 1, please hit you caps lock key before posting. and 2, im gonna post something from somewhere else (copy and paste) that explains about caps. after reading this, i now understand caps much mo betta... and am considering adding one, i just bought an optima red top, and have an alternator on the way... still debating whether or not to get a cap, anyway, here's the copy and paste:
Caps aren't useless...
But often misunderstood.
So then they don't do what people expect, and they say "Oh, they are useless"
Or else they cite that ridiculous test that RC did... showing full minutes on the X-axis, so the waveforms looked to be identical, cap vs. no cap.
At any rate, understand what capacitors do.
They store a charge. They can be charged up to any voltage up to their maximum voltage level (usually 20v). They store lighting fast, and discharge lightning fast, and don't suffer any damage from that lightning fast behavior.
Now, understand what batteries do.
They store voltage. They try to maintain a constant 12v, although that will drop somewhat as the battery becomes discharged... but never to 0v. In fact, the very act of charging and discharging a battery is harmful, if it discharges more than just a bit. Trying to draw current quickly can damage a battery. Batteries also respond relatively slowly to demands for energy, for current... deep cycle batteries being the slowest (hence why they aren't recommended for a car audio application typically).
And your alternator is a voltage source, that's capable of generating a certain amount of energy... a certain amount of current, when regulated to 14.4v.
When you exceed that current capability, there's no problem... all that happens is that the additional current is drawn from your battery until the current demand goes back down.
If it's because the bass just hit a big note, the alternator provides what current it can, the battery provides the rest. In order for this to happen, the car's voltage level drops from the 14.4v of the alternator to the 12v of the battery.
You might notice your lights dim in your car when this happens, since lights are naturally more bright on 14.4v than they are on 12v.
The capacitor is a great addition to a power supply system, because they do help augment the amp when this transition occurs.
Bear in mind, the battery is slow to respond to begin discharging. Yes, it's only milli-seconds.. but that's dramatically slow in the scope of electrons that are moving at the speed of light!
The capacitor discharges lightning fast, helping supply the current the amp needs at a minimum until the so-brief, and slight voltage drop due to the battery's slow response has passed, if not being able to supply almost the whole additional current to cover the peak itself.
It helps smooth out the response of your car's electrical system, and can help with your light dimming situation, which can seem more extreme without capacitors installed.
The real trick setup is not just installing one in the rear of the car near your amps, but also up front, by the battery, to help it get a "head start" if you will, when the demand for voltage is there.
But the most important thing is fundamental...
Make sure your main power wiring is up to snuff, if not "overkill".
Upgrade the "magic 3" underhood, and make sure all the connections are well made, bare metal on metal (paint is an insulator).
ok, 1, please hit you caps lock key before posting. and 2, im gonna post something from somewhere else (copy and paste) that explains about caps. after reading this, i now understand caps much mo betta... and am considering adding one, i just bought an optima red top, and have an alternator on the way... still debating whether or not to get a cap, anyway, here's the copy and paste:
Caps aren't useless...
But often misunderstood.
So then they don't do what people expect, and they say "Oh, they are useless"
Or else they cite that ridiculous test that RC did... showing full minutes on the X-axis, so the waveforms looked to be identical, cap vs. no cap.
At any rate, understand what capacitors do.
They store a charge. They can be charged up to any voltage up to their maximum voltage level (usually 20v). They store lighting fast, and discharge lightning fast, and don't suffer any damage from that lightning fast behavior.
Now, understand what batteries do.
They store voltage. They try to maintain a constant 12v, although that will drop somewhat as the battery becomes discharged... but never to 0v. In fact, the very act of charging and discharging a battery is harmful, if it discharges more than just a bit. Trying to draw current quickly can damage a battery. Batteries also respond relatively slowly to demands for energy, for current... deep cycle batteries being the slowest (hence why they aren't recommended for a car audio application typically).
And your alternator is a voltage source, that's capable of generating a certain amount of energy... a certain amount of current, when regulated to 14.4v.
When you exceed that current capability, there's no problem... all that happens is that the additional current is drawn from your battery until the current demand goes back down.
If it's because the bass just hit a big note, the alternator provides what current it can, the battery provides the rest. In order for this to happen, the car's voltage level drops from the 14.4v of the alternator to the 12v of the battery.
You might notice your lights dim in your car when this happens, since lights are naturally more bright on 14.4v than they are on 12v.
The capacitor is a great addition to a power supply system, because they do help augment the amp when this transition occurs.
Bear in mind, the battery is slow to respond to begin discharging. Yes, it's only milli-seconds.. but that's dramatically slow in the scope of electrons that are moving at the speed of light!
The capacitor discharges lightning fast, helping supply the current the amp needs at a minimum until the so-brief, and slight voltage drop due to the battery's slow response has passed, if not being able to supply almost the whole additional current to cover the peak itself.
It helps smooth out the response of your car's electrical system, and can help with your light dimming situation, which can seem more extreme without capacitors installed.
The real trick setup is not just installing one in the rear of the car near your amps, but also up front, by the battery, to help it get a "head start" if you will, when the demand for voltage is there.
But the most important thing is fundamental...
Make sure your main power wiring is up to snuff, if not "overkill".
Upgrade the "magic 3" underhood, and make sure all the connections are well made, bare metal on metal (paint is an insulator).
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From: bay area, california
Rep Power: 337 a battery is a storage of charge, not a storage of voltage! the voltage is just the potential that charge is at!
I dunno, while a helpful resource, I dont like some of the propaganda it pedals, especially that its all hedging statements in which it is presented.
I dunno, while a helpful resource, I dont like some of the propaganda it pedals, especially that its all hedging statements in which it is presented.
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From: Roanoke, VA
Rep Power: 0 i definitely think that quote was taken from someone trying to sell capacitors...but it does provide some useful information...while it is probably a bit biased. Could someone kick/ban Xtreme_Rage or something? He's really getting on my nerves. I hope to god that he isn't like this in real life. Probably is; has no friends, never will, and just walks around all day yelling at people (in caps lock, no less) and trying to look cool.
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From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 327 Originally posted by jwalker87
i definitely think that quote was taken from someone trying to sell capacitors...but it does provide some useful information...while it is probably a bit biased. Could someone kick/ban Xtreme_Rage or something? He's really getting on my nerves. I hope to god that he isn't like this in real life. Probably is; has no friends, never will, and just walks around all day yelling at people (in caps lock, no less) and trying to look cool.
i definitely think that quote was taken from someone trying to sell capacitors...but it does provide some useful information...while it is probably a bit biased. Could someone kick/ban Xtreme_Rage or something? He's really getting on my nerves. I hope to god that he isn't like this in real life. Probably is; has no friends, never will, and just walks around all day yelling at people (in caps lock, no less) and trying to look cool.
@ _Xtreme_Rage_I would have to agree that the post sounds like they are trying to sell caps. But i would still have to agree with it caps do work for what they were designed for.
Here is a quote from a retailer.....
The overall response of your audio system will be enhanced with the use of capacitors due to their ability to quickly supply a large amount of current to your amplifier's power supply during high current demand (low bass). This makes the Lightning Cap a logical addition to your system due to the fact that automotive electrical systems aren't designed to deliver the current to satisfy the requirements of high-powered audio components. It can also filter AC voltage induced in the system by the amplifier's power supply which could cause objectionable noise. A one Farad capacitor is recommended for each 1000 watts of amplifier power, although you can never have too much capacitance for any system.
Electric Boogaloo...
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From: Want to play a game?
Rep Power: 328 Originally posted by WhiteRabbit
a battery is a storage of charge, not a storage of voltage! the voltage is just the potential that charge is at!
I dunno, while a helpful resource, I dont like some of the propaganda it pedals, especially that its all hedging statements in which it is presented.
a battery is a storage of charge, not a storage of voltage! the voltage is just the potential that charge is at!
I dunno, while a helpful resource, I dont like some of the propaganda it pedals, especially that its all hedging statements in which it is presented.
and for xtreme rage, you call it uneduacated. show me some fact based knowledge of your opinion. show me one of your installs, better yet, show me your drievr's license, your juvenile posts are on somewhat of a middle school level, that bout right eugene voice of hellerton, PA. cmon now, you dont expect me to believe you didnt just randomly enter a phone number in a google search and get the name do you? and seriously, if my post, which happens to be from a MECP certified guy is uneducated, and he knows nothing of what he is talking about, where are your credentials. im still waiting on the pics of your 19 hour total install btw... no im not, im done with you. HOLLA!
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From: Cleveland, OH
Rep Power: 329 the guy may be MECP, but he's never taken a physics class
electrons hardly move at all. it can take something like 70 years for electrons to move a matter of feet in a wire. boring reading
please don't criticize other people's systems unless they ask for it. we all started somewhere, and it's the interest that's important. so get over yourself and let's talk about audio, not taunt people over 2k miles away.
Bear in mind, the battery is slow to respond to begin discharging. Yes, it's only milli-seconds.. but that's dramatically slow in the scope of electrons that are moving at the speed of light!
please don't criticize other people's systems unless they ask for it. we all started somewhere, and it's the interest that's important. so get over yourself and let's talk about audio, not taunt people over 2k miles away.
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From: Roanoke, VA
Rep Power: 0 hey...Xtreme Rage found his caps lock!
...i'll probably get a capacitator when I build my fiberglass enclosure for my new sub/amp. Just because they are like $20 off ebay and its worth a shot.
...i'll probably get a capacitator when I build my fiberglass enclosure for my new sub/amp. Just because they are like $20 off ebay and its worth a shot.
Electric Boogaloo...
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From: Want to play a game?
Rep Power: 328 electrons hardly move at all. it can take something like 70 years for electrons to move a matter of feet in a wire. boring reading
please don't criticize other people's systems unless they ask for it. we all started somewhere, and it's the interest that's important. so get over yourself and let's talk about audio, not taunt people over 2k miles away.
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From: Cleveland, OH
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tfnaaf
CUTE SYSTEM, DID YOU GET IT FROM WALMART??
LOL
GIVE ME 1 MONTH BITCH, I'LL SHOW YOU A SYSTEM THAT WILL PUT THAT WALMART SUB TO SHAME BITCH
CUTE SYSTEM, DID YOU GET IT FROM WALMART??
LOL
GIVE ME 1 MONTH BITCH, I'LL SHOW YOU A SYSTEM THAT WILL PUT THAT WALMART SUB TO SHAME BITCH
i didn't really want to criticize your post PP, i merely want to point out that everything you read on the internet might not be written by an expert on the subject or contain 100% accurate information. that is all.
as to locking this thread, you got 2 votes now.
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From: Boise, Idaho
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Joined: Apr 2002
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From: Poco, B.C. Canada
Rep Power: 564 Originally posted by _Xtreme_Rage_
OK, YOU STUPID F***S, READ THIS CLEARLY
CAPS WITH NOTHING ON THEM ARE WORTHLESS, IF YOU PUT THEM ON BATTERIES, OTHER THAN THE ONE IN YOUR HOOD, THEN THEY ARE SOMEWHAT HELPFUL, BUT YOUR MONEY WILL GO FARTHER IN MORE CAR BATTEERIES THAN CAPS
I SEE WHY YOU GUYS ARE IN THSI FORUM, YOU HAVE A LOT TO LEARN, STOP ACTING LIKE YOU BOTH OWN HONDAS, YOU REALLY OWN TEN SPEED BIKES LOL
GOOD LUCK LOL
SIGHS
AND FOR THE RECORD, I DONT THINK YOU NEED TO TELL ME I GOT A ANGERMANAGEMENT ISSUE, FOR ****S SAKE, LOOK AT MY ****ING USER NAME YOU WORTHELESS ****
AND I SHOULD OF SOLD THEM ON EBAY, BUT..OH WELL, I LIKE THEM FOR DISPLAY PURPOSES.
CHROME WITH BLUE LED LIGHTS ARE TIGHT
OK, YOU STUPID F***S, READ THIS CLEARLY
CAPS WITH NOTHING ON THEM ARE WORTHLESS, IF YOU PUT THEM ON BATTERIES, OTHER THAN THE ONE IN YOUR HOOD, THEN THEY ARE SOMEWHAT HELPFUL, BUT YOUR MONEY WILL GO FARTHER IN MORE CAR BATTEERIES THAN CAPS
I SEE WHY YOU GUYS ARE IN THSI FORUM, YOU HAVE A LOT TO LEARN, STOP ACTING LIKE YOU BOTH OWN HONDAS, YOU REALLY OWN TEN SPEED BIKES LOL
GOOD LUCK LOL
SIGHSAND FOR THE RECORD, I DONT THINK YOU NEED TO TELL ME I GOT A ANGERMANAGEMENT ISSUE, FOR ****S SAKE, LOOK AT MY ****ING USER NAME YOU WORTHELESS ****
AND I SHOULD OF SOLD THEM ON EBAY, BUT..OH WELL, I LIKE THEM FOR DISPLAY PURPOSES.
CHROME WITH BLUE LED LIGHTS ARE TIGHT
Everyone else....As you were.
