ILLWILL'S Turbo?!?!?
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419 
Yeah, no joke. Oh well...
Getting rims soon.
Then I buy welding equipment. (about $200)
Then I do the rear sway bar conversion for civics not equiped with them. (I have a 2001 LX.)
Then I'm doing the LX to EX exhaust conversion. (foothold for the turbo)
Then I pick out a turbo and but one. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Then I start my turbo with a custom turbo manifold. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] (that's where the welding equipment comes in handy)
Then I make the charge pipes and the down pipes.
Then I buy a BOV.
Then I tap the oil pan for an oil feed for the turbo. (might as well put in an oil cooler during this step)
Then I install an A/F guage, boost guage, and oil temp guage. Maybe even oil pressure.
Finally, I can start the tests at low psi's.
Then when everything is working at 3psi I will start on the fuel system. I'll make a DIY as I go along. Will be a long and drawn out process since I don't have a ton of money though. Stay tuned...
Getting rims soon.
Then I buy welding equipment. (about $200)
Then I do the rear sway bar conversion for civics not equiped with them. (I have a 2001 LX.)
Then I'm doing the LX to EX exhaust conversion. (foothold for the turbo)
Then I pick out a turbo and but one. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Then I start my turbo with a custom turbo manifold. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] (that's where the welding equipment comes in handy)
Then I make the charge pipes and the down pipes.
Then I buy a BOV.
Then I tap the oil pan for an oil feed for the turbo. (might as well put in an oil cooler during this step)
Then I install an A/F guage, boost guage, and oil temp guage. Maybe even oil pressure.
Finally, I can start the tests at low psi's.
Then when everything is working at 3psi I will start on the fuel system. I'll make a DIY as I go along. Will be a long and drawn out process since I don't have a ton of money though. Stay tuned...
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: BC, British Columbia, Canada
Rep Power: 0
Quote
[hr]- How did you make the turbo manifold? Most turbo shops could fabricate one.
Yeah, or you can use one for a D16 block. You could also buy a welder (about $200) and make one yourself. With our four cylinder design a dual scroll turbo would be nice. That would increase the turbo's efficiency, so you could run a smaller turbo. A smaller turbo means achieving boost at lower rpm's. That in turn translates to lower ET's. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]- How did you make the turbo manifold? Most turbo shops could fabricate one.
Yeah, or you can use one for a D16 block. You could also buy a welder (about $200) and make one yourself. With our four cylinder design a dual scroll turbo would be nice. That would increase the turbo's efficiency, so you could run a smaller turbo. A smaller turbo means achieving boost at lower rpm's. That in turn translates to lower ET's. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
Quote
[hr]- How did you make the charge pipes? Easy, you weld 2 1/2" aluminum piping.
Yeah, but it's hard to weld aluminum. Easier solition is to use pipe couplings which you can buy from a hardware store. Just make sure to get ones that can withstands higher temperatures. Then buy aluminum pipes, straight and curved. Measure, cut, and couple. Easy.[hr]
[hr]- How did you make the charge pipes? Easy, you weld 2 1/2" aluminum piping.
Yeah, but it's hard to weld aluminum. Easier solition is to use pipe couplings which you can buy from a hardware store. Just make sure to get ones that can withstands higher temperatures. Then buy aluminum pipes, straight and curved. Measure, cut, and couple. Easy.[hr]
Quote
[hr]- Where did you locate the intake? Who cares? Its probably were the AEM SRI is located.
Um... No, that would be where the charge pipes are located. Did you see HKS's turbo? It's nothing like an AEM SRI. Plus, I would locate it lower to act like a CAI.[hr]
[hr]- Where did you locate the intake? Who cares? Its probably were the AEM SRI is located.
Um... No, that would be where the charge pipes are located. Did you see HKS's turbo? It's nothing like an AEM SRI. Plus, I would locate it lower to act like a CAI.[hr]
Quote
[hr]- What kind of filter do you use? Who cares? Their all the same.
No they're not. K&N is the best hands down. Air flow capacity is also important. The larger the better for future boost increases. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]- What kind of filter do you use? Who cares? Their all the same.
No they're not. K&N is the best hands down. Air flow capacity is also important. The larger the better for future boost increases. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
Quote
[hr]- Does the engine overheat now? Why would it, the cooling system for the 7th gen is quite large.
You're adding compressed air into the engine and you're adding more fuel. Compressed air in and of itself contains more heat. Running it through a hot turbo makes it even hotter. Adding more fuel makes a hotter bang. This hotter bang in turn makes the turbo hotter. There is more heat in the system. The temperature of the engine will go up. I would add an oil cooler to cool the oil and prevent it from breaking down prematurely (i.e. no frequent oil changes). I would also use Redline's Water Wetter in your radiator fluid to lower the temperatures.[hr]
[hr]- Does the engine overheat now? Why would it, the cooling system for the 7th gen is quite large.
You're adding compressed air into the engine and you're adding more fuel. Compressed air in and of itself contains more heat. Running it through a hot turbo makes it even hotter. Adding more fuel makes a hotter bang. This hotter bang in turn makes the turbo hotter. There is more heat in the system. The temperature of the engine will go up. I would add an oil cooler to cool the oil and prevent it from breaking down prematurely (i.e. no frequent oil changes). I would also use Redline's Water Wetter in your radiator fluid to lower the temperatures.[hr]
Quote
[hr]- Did you protect anything from the heat of the turbo? Probably a standard heat shield.
Yeah, or thermal wrap. I would use thermal wrap on the turbo, some heat insulation on the wires. Also, a heat shield on the down pipes.[hr]
[hr]- Did you protect anything from the heat of the turbo? Probably a standard heat shield.
Yeah, or thermal wrap. I would use thermal wrap on the turbo, some heat insulation on the wires. Also, a heat shield on the down pipes.[hr]
Quote
[hr]- How did you monitor detonation when increasing the psi? I hope your knock sensor does that, not your ears, you cant hear detonation @ WOT.
I was thinking of an A/F guage or a wideband A/F meter.[hr]
[hr]- How did you monitor detonation when increasing the psi? I hope your knock sensor does that, not your ears, you cant hear detonation @ WOT.
I was thinking of an A/F guage or a wideband A/F meter.[hr]
Quote
[hr]- Do you run a higher octane gas now? Of course.
You don't need to, but it helps. The higher the octane the lower the probability of detonation. Since there's extra heat in the combustion chamber the probability of detonation goes up. Finding the optimal octane for a particular setup is what you should do. Why waste money and buy the best, when the regular will suffice? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]- Do you run a higher octane gas now? Of course.
You don't need to, but it helps. The higher the octane the lower the probability of detonation. Since there's extra heat in the combustion chamber the probability of detonation goes up. Finding the optimal octane for a particular setup is what you should do. Why waste money and buy the best, when the regular will suffice? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
Quote
[hr]- How tight a fit was that turbo? I bet very tight.
Depends what size turbo they have in there. I know that a T3 will fit. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]- How tight a fit was that turbo? I bet very tight.
Depends what size turbo they have in there. I know that a T3 will fit. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
Quote
[hr]- What psi are you running again? Probably no more than 7
Without fuel system upgrades about 3-5. With a fuel system upgrade about 5-7. With upgraded internals 7-9. As long as you don't go over 14:1 compression. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] After that you'll need a thicker head gasket and better head fasteners (here's hoping that ARP comes out with something).[hr]
[hr]- What psi are you running again? Probably no more than 7
Without fuel system upgrades about 3-5. With a fuel system upgrade about 5-7. With upgraded internals 7-9. As long as you don't go over 14:1 compression. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] After that you'll need a thicker head gasket and better head fasteners (here's hoping that ARP comes out with something).[hr]
Quote
[hr]- How do you feed oil to the turbo? From a custom tapped hole in the oil pan, again very easy procedure.
Yeah, or you can change out the oil pan when they come out with one. Morosso! Hear my plea! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] Tapping the stock oil pan isn't that easy actually. You have to take off the oil pan and drill a hole and then tap it. Plus you need the proper hardware. I would use copper washers to make a good seal. Copper washers from both sides and jam nuts from both sides. The hole itself would be plugged up by a bouble threaded pipe of the right length. I would prefer weldd though.[hr]
[hr]- How do you feed oil to the turbo? From a custom tapped hole in the oil pan, again very easy procedure.
Yeah, or you can change out the oil pan when they come out with one. Morosso! Hear my plea! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] Tapping the stock oil pan isn't that easy actually. You have to take off the oil pan and drill a hole and then tap it. Plus you need the proper hardware. I would use copper washers to make a good seal. Copper washers from both sides and jam nuts from both sides. The hole itself would be plugged up by a bouble threaded pipe of the right length. I would prefer weldd though.[hr]
Im not trying to argue, just answering some questions that you asked.
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419 Yes, but Honda engines like to scream, so why not have the lag down low anyways, and imporve the top end more?
Yeah, but I'm talking about relative rpm's. I know that our engines rev high to acheive power, so I don't think having the turbo acheive full boost at 1,500rpm's will do us much good. However, having it acheive full boost at 3,500rpm's instead of 4,500rpm's would be better. We just need to make sure that in the higher rpm's we don't have the turbo spinning at too high an rpm. It looses efficiency then and it's not very good for the turbo itself. You need to properly match the turbo to the application. That's all I'm trying to say.
You will need about 300 couplers then, there will be some hella bends.
If you don't use pre-bent aluminum piping yes. I would buy 45 degree bends, 90 degree bends, and a U-turn bend. That should give you all you need to make the charge pipes and minimize the amount of couplers. I agree, the fewer the better.
Arent you going to be running the air through a inter-cooler anyways?
Probably, but even with an intercooler the colder the air is that is fed into the turbo the colder it will be after it is under boost and after it passes through the intercooler. Even a ram-air system will still yield gains in a turbo setup.
K&N, Apex-i, HKS, all make great filters, seriously, theres no difference.
Well yeah, brand names are good, sure. K&N is number one IMO. They have a wide selection as well. That's what I'm going with anyway. That is unless I read something about a better filter from another company.
Intercooled turbos air isnt that much hotter than a SRI. Tons of guys run 20psi with no oil coolers, just wasting your money.
It does matter for the life of the oil. The colder the oil is kept the longer it will last. I don't want to be changing my oil every 3,000 miles because I out a turbo in. It also gets rid of some heat, so it's not a waste IMO. Especially since it costs very little.
You gonna put heat wrap pn the turbo itself?
You could, but I want to show off my turbo and let the turbo itself cool down quicker when you turn off the engine. I will wrap the down pipe and the turbo manifold.
Or EGT gauge.
EGT guage? What's that?
Why even put on a turbo if your gonna run 2psi cause you have 87 octane. If you got the cash for the turbo, do it right, and get the 91 or higher gas. No sense in Dicken around.
You don't have to if you don't need to. I will probably be a boost junkie when I finally get a turbo. I will optimize and up the boost. Re-inforce, and up the boost. Cool it down, and up the boost. As I do so I might have to go with a higher octane, but maybe I'll be able to get away with a lower octane. Only time will tell...
Probably. Depends on how long the turbo manifold runners are. There's more space lower than higher up since the block curves back.
I just wanted to see if ILLWILL or his buddies could enlighten me further.
Ya, you can wait 5 years to buy one, or you can take off your stocker and drill the hole and tap it.
True that. A new one would be optimal though. Probably bigger oil capacity too. I'm okay with tapping since I'm on a budget.
Anyway, I will probably start a DIY 7th gen turbo site in about a month or two. I'll start it off with an LX to EX exhaust system swap. Then I'll go on to the turbo manifold. Stay tuned... (btw, this is no empty promise)
Yeah, but I'm talking about relative rpm's. I know that our engines rev high to acheive power, so I don't think having the turbo acheive full boost at 1,500rpm's will do us much good. However, having it acheive full boost at 3,500rpm's instead of 4,500rpm's would be better. We just need to make sure that in the higher rpm's we don't have the turbo spinning at too high an rpm. It looses efficiency then and it's not very good for the turbo itself. You need to properly match the turbo to the application. That's all I'm trying to say.
You will need about 300 couplers then, there will be some hella bends.
If you don't use pre-bent aluminum piping yes. I would buy 45 degree bends, 90 degree bends, and a U-turn bend. That should give you all you need to make the charge pipes and minimize the amount of couplers. I agree, the fewer the better.
Arent you going to be running the air through a inter-cooler anyways?
Probably, but even with an intercooler the colder the air is that is fed into the turbo the colder it will be after it is under boost and after it passes through the intercooler. Even a ram-air system will still yield gains in a turbo setup.
K&N, Apex-i, HKS, all make great filters, seriously, theres no difference.
Well yeah, brand names are good, sure. K&N is number one IMO. They have a wide selection as well. That's what I'm going with anyway. That is unless I read something about a better filter from another company.
Intercooled turbos air isnt that much hotter than a SRI. Tons of guys run 20psi with no oil coolers, just wasting your money.
It does matter for the life of the oil. The colder the oil is kept the longer it will last. I don't want to be changing my oil every 3,000 miles because I out a turbo in. It also gets rid of some heat, so it's not a waste IMO. Especially since it costs very little.
You gonna put heat wrap pn the turbo itself?
You could, but I want to show off my turbo and let the turbo itself cool down quicker when you turn off the engine. I will wrap the down pipe and the turbo manifold.
Or EGT gauge.
EGT guage? What's that?
Why even put on a turbo if your gonna run 2psi cause you have 87 octane. If you got the cash for the turbo, do it right, and get the 91 or higher gas. No sense in Dicken around.
You don't have to if you don't need to. I will probably be a boost junkie when I finally get a turbo. I will optimize and up the boost. Re-inforce, and up the boost. Cool it down, and up the boost. As I do so I might have to go with a higher octane, but maybe I'll be able to get away with a lower octane. Only time will tell...
Quote
[hr] Sure, but I bet its tight.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]
Quote
[hr]- How tight a fit was that turbo? I bet very tight.
Depends what size turbo they have in there. I know that a T3 will fit. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
[hr]- How tight a fit was that turbo? I bet very tight.
Depends what size turbo they have in there. I know that a T3 will fit. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG][hr]
Quote
[hr] So why did you ask this question?[hr]
[hr]
Quote
[hr]- What psi are you running again? Probably no more than 7
Without fuel system upgrades about 3-5. With a fuel system upgrade about 5-7. With upgraded internals 7-9. As long as you don't go over 14:1 compression. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] After that you'll need a thicker head gasket and better head fasteners (here's hoping that ARP comes out with something).[hr]
[hr]- What psi are you running again? Probably no more than 7
Without fuel system upgrades about 3-5. With a fuel system upgrade about 5-7. With upgraded internals 7-9. As long as you don't go over 14:1 compression. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] After that you'll need a thicker head gasket and better head fasteners (here's hoping that ARP comes out with something).[hr]
Ya, you can wait 5 years to buy one, or you can take off your stocker and drill the hole and tap it.
True that. A new one would be optimal though. Probably bigger oil capacity too. I'm okay with tapping since I'm on a budget.
Anyway, I will probably start a DIY 7th gen turbo site in about a month or two. I'll start it off with an LX to EX exhaust system swap. Then I'll go on to the turbo manifold. Stay tuned... (btw, this is no empty promise)
SRT-4 owner with 2MCHPSI
iTrader: (8)
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,695
Likes: 0
From: your g/f house, Louisiana, US
Rep Power: 0 umm yeah, grey, you wanna come over and play with my car. i will let you put a turbo on it.
this dude know his freakin stuff. i dont have the time to research all that crap.. that i why i depend on people like grey
i think that i speak for everyone, even the ones that wont admit it. thank you for knowin you stuff
this dude know his freakin stuff. i dont have the time to research all that crap.. that i why i depend on people like grey
i think that i speak for everyone, even the ones that wont admit it. thank you for knowin you stuff
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: black2k1vtec
EGT is and exhaust Gas Temperature gauge, it tells you the temp of your exhaust gas, really hot=bad and detonation.
Good luck with your DIY turbo.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: black2k1vtec
EGT is and exhaust Gas Temperature gauge, it tells you the temp of your exhaust gas, really hot=bad and detonation.
Good luck with your DIY turbo.[hr]
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: jwcardy
umm yeah, grey, you wanna come over and play with my car. i will let you put a turbo on it.
this dude know his freakin stuff. i dont have the time to research all that crap.. that i why i depend on people like grey
i think that i speak for everyone, even the ones that wont admit it. thank you for knowin you stuff[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: jwcardy
umm yeah, grey, you wanna come over and play with my car. i will let you put a turbo on it.
this dude know his freakin stuff. i dont have the time to research all that crap.. that i why i depend on people like grey
i think that i speak for everyone, even the ones that wont admit it. thank you for knowin you stuff[hr]
Where do you live?
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 902
Likes: 0
From: Biloxi, Mississippi, US
Rep Power: 0 Grey has made me feel retarded....so im goin back to kindergarden to relearn EVERYTHING cause i just found out i know NOTHING!!
Thx Grey for the Enlightenment, im goin to class now to try and color inbetween the lines.
PeArLhOnDa
Thx Grey for the Enlightenment, im goin to class now to try and color inbetween the lines.
PeArLhOnDa
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419 Yeah, I think I will. Well, I'll try at least. After I get the basic setup working though. Since HKS said our stock fuel system can handle 3-4 psi, that is what I will be aiming for first. Then I'll try to upgrade the fuel system. Should be fun, not! Should be educational though.
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,509
Likes: 0
From: BC, British Columbia, Canada
Rep Power: 0 You gonna get a custom shim made? or do you plan on running 9.5:1 cr with boost?
You gonna run a air-air or a air-water intercooler?
What turbo you gonna run?
What cc's do the stock injectors run? What about the pulse rate?
What fuel Management are you going to run?
What manifold are you going to use?
Will the plastic intake manifold be able to withstand boost?
Just a few q's I have for ya.
You gonna run a air-air or a air-water intercooler?
What turbo you gonna run?
What cc's do the stock injectors run? What about the pulse rate?
What fuel Management are you going to run?
What manifold are you going to use?
Will the plastic intake manifold be able to withstand boost?
Just a few q's I have for ya.
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419 Good questions! I will try to think about each and every one very carefully before I answer.
You gonna get a custom shim made? or do you plan on running 9.5:1 cr with boost?
I know that my LX's compression ratio isn't that bad for a turbo. However, I know that production cars like to use lower compression with turbo's. I remember reading something about a turbocharged Porsche running 10psi and 8.5:1 compression ratio. Lower compression ratio's allow you to run higher boost levels, but I'm not going to be running high boost levels at first. I think I might buy a strong head gasket and new pistons (when they come out), but a thicker head gasket in and of itself might not be the best solution. Tough question though. I don't know. Not yet anyway, I need more options. If I were to make the turbo tomorrow, then I'de say yes. I would buy gasket material and make a custom head gasket that was thicker than stock to reduce the compression ratio.
You gonna run a air-air or a air-water intercooler?
An air-to-air is more efficient. Plus it will weighs less. Then again, routing the charge pipes will be a pain. Plus there's more piping, so that kinda creates more restriction to air flow. There are advantages to one and advantages to the other. An air-to-water-to-air intercooler could fit where that big plastic airbox is. There's tons of room there. Then just have water flow though the intercooler pipes and build a shround around the intercooler so that the air that's compressed by the turbo flows around it. Then you hook up the water to another intercooler which gets cooler by flowing air. You could mount that up in front and have the flexible pipes routed wherever you wanted. Then an in-line water pump and you're all set. Heavier, but easier to route that flexible pipe (that holds water) than a stiff pipe (that holds compressed air). It'de be unique to have one of those too, so I'm not sure? It depends on if I can find a good place to route the charge pipes. If I can then air-to-air, if not, then water will be my friend. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
What turbo you gonna run?
I'm thinking of a T25/28, but I'de like something with a dual scroll housing. Basically two inlet ports for exhaust gases from the outside cylinders and the inside cylinders. Since the outside fire, then the inside, the air pulses and collides and creates resistence. A turbo housing with dual scrolls routes the air so that very little collision takes place. This increases the turbo's efficiency, so you'll achieve boost early. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
What cc's do the stock injectors run? What about the pulse rate?
The stock injectors are 78cc injectors. They pulse at a rate of the rpm's. The pulse width is modified by the ECU. The pulse width determines how much fuel is let into the combustion chamber. If you go with bigger injectors (100cc for example) and you don't change anything else, then you will run rich. Now, if you up the boost to balance that out, then everything will be fine. Although not quite 'cause the boost isn't constant. It varies with engine rpm. The ECU (ECM for the enlightened) has the fuel maps in it that tell it how long a pulse width to use for each rpm. We would need to re-program the ECU so that it opened the injectors for the right amount of time with the rpm. This would be the perfect solution IMO. Although on the fly re-programming would be even nicer.
What fuel Management are you going to run?
I don't know yet. I know that I could just upgrade the injectors and maybe the fuel pump (if the fuel pressure was too low). Then I could hook up something like a S-AFC. That would allow me to adjust the fuel maps. That would work. Not completely sure yet though, my goal is to get 3-4 psi to work first. Then I'll try to figure out the fuel system issue.
What manifold are you going to use?
I looked up the prices of D16 manifolds and they're slightly too much for me. Plus I wouldn't know for sure if everything would line up the way I wanted. D16 turbo manifolds will fit on the D17 block though. I will probably just make my own. I haven't seen turbo manifolds which accomodate dual scroll housing turbo's anyway. I'll buy a welder (about $200). Then I'll use that to make my own turbo manifold. Just buy some pipes (angled and straight). The right guage metal the right diameter of course. Then cut it and fit it together like LEGO's. Then just tack the pieces into place. Then make sure I have everything the way I want it. Then weld. Then maybe coat it with ceramic paint. Oh yeah, the base plate would just be a copy of the stock header plate (EX's).
Will the plastic intake manifold be able to withstand boost?
I'm not sure? I think it will. I think that the intake manifold blowing up was due to the fuel and nitrous mixture igniting while in the intake manifold. I might pack it in fiberglass just to reinforce it. That's one I dea I had. Maybe there's a replacement intake manifold out there somewhere for us? Who knows...
You gonna get a custom shim made? or do you plan on running 9.5:1 cr with boost?
I know that my LX's compression ratio isn't that bad for a turbo. However, I know that production cars like to use lower compression with turbo's. I remember reading something about a turbocharged Porsche running 10psi and 8.5:1 compression ratio. Lower compression ratio's allow you to run higher boost levels, but I'm not going to be running high boost levels at first. I think I might buy a strong head gasket and new pistons (when they come out), but a thicker head gasket in and of itself might not be the best solution. Tough question though. I don't know. Not yet anyway, I need more options. If I were to make the turbo tomorrow, then I'de say yes. I would buy gasket material and make a custom head gasket that was thicker than stock to reduce the compression ratio.
You gonna run a air-air or a air-water intercooler?
An air-to-air is more efficient. Plus it will weighs less. Then again, routing the charge pipes will be a pain. Plus there's more piping, so that kinda creates more restriction to air flow. There are advantages to one and advantages to the other. An air-to-water-to-air intercooler could fit where that big plastic airbox is. There's tons of room there. Then just have water flow though the intercooler pipes and build a shround around the intercooler so that the air that's compressed by the turbo flows around it. Then you hook up the water to another intercooler which gets cooler by flowing air. You could mount that up in front and have the flexible pipes routed wherever you wanted. Then an in-line water pump and you're all set. Heavier, but easier to route that flexible pipe (that holds water) than a stiff pipe (that holds compressed air). It'de be unique to have one of those too, so I'm not sure? It depends on if I can find a good place to route the charge pipes. If I can then air-to-air, if not, then water will be my friend. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
What turbo you gonna run?
I'm thinking of a T25/28, but I'de like something with a dual scroll housing. Basically two inlet ports for exhaust gases from the outside cylinders and the inside cylinders. Since the outside fire, then the inside, the air pulses and collides and creates resistence. A turbo housing with dual scrolls routes the air so that very little collision takes place. This increases the turbo's efficiency, so you'll achieve boost early. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
What cc's do the stock injectors run? What about the pulse rate?
The stock injectors are 78cc injectors. They pulse at a rate of the rpm's. The pulse width is modified by the ECU. The pulse width determines how much fuel is let into the combustion chamber. If you go with bigger injectors (100cc for example) and you don't change anything else, then you will run rich. Now, if you up the boost to balance that out, then everything will be fine. Although not quite 'cause the boost isn't constant. It varies with engine rpm. The ECU (ECM for the enlightened) has the fuel maps in it that tell it how long a pulse width to use for each rpm. We would need to re-program the ECU so that it opened the injectors for the right amount of time with the rpm. This would be the perfect solution IMO. Although on the fly re-programming would be even nicer.
What fuel Management are you going to run?
I don't know yet. I know that I could just upgrade the injectors and maybe the fuel pump (if the fuel pressure was too low). Then I could hook up something like a S-AFC. That would allow me to adjust the fuel maps. That would work. Not completely sure yet though, my goal is to get 3-4 psi to work first. Then I'll try to figure out the fuel system issue.
What manifold are you going to use?
I looked up the prices of D16 manifolds and they're slightly too much for me. Plus I wouldn't know for sure if everything would line up the way I wanted. D16 turbo manifolds will fit on the D17 block though. I will probably just make my own. I haven't seen turbo manifolds which accomodate dual scroll housing turbo's anyway. I'll buy a welder (about $200). Then I'll use that to make my own turbo manifold. Just buy some pipes (angled and straight). The right guage metal the right diameter of course. Then cut it and fit it together like LEGO's. Then just tack the pieces into place. Then make sure I have everything the way I want it. Then weld. Then maybe coat it with ceramic paint. Oh yeah, the base plate would just be a copy of the stock header plate (EX's).
Will the plastic intake manifold be able to withstand boost?
I'm not sure? I think it will. I think that the intake manifold blowing up was due to the fuel and nitrous mixture igniting while in the intake manifold. I might pack it in fiberglass just to reinforce it. That's one I dea I had. Maybe there's a replacement intake manifold out there somewhere for us? Who knows...
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
From: , Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 0 Nice, I hope to see the finished product. I bet It'll be a blast.
Oh yeah By the way the D16 turbo manifold would fit the D17 engine without modification? or does it require some modification?
Oh yeah By the way the D16 turbo manifold would fit the D17 engine without modification? or does it require some modification?
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419 All I know is that the exhaust ports are the same. I think the holes should be the same as well. The only thing that might be different is the shape of the attachment plate. That doesn't really matter though, as long as there's not too little material to cover the gasket. I'm not going with a D16 turbo manifold anyway, so I'm not concerned with whether it will fit or not.
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 0 Grey, I just got my hands on a T3/T4 ball bearing turbo..polished..400 bucks. Someone told me this a great deal. This thread has been pretty informative and gave some of this info to the guy who will be doing my custom job. My 2 questions are this..I was initially gonna go with the T25/28, but then I came across this T3/4 which my guy says is better? Is it? And second, why wouldn't you try using the D16 turbo manifold? Is it preference or another reason? I only ask, because my guy went to get one for me today. Sorry...I'm not the expert on turbo..you guys apparently are and the dude that is building mine. I know yada yada pics etc...eventually, but I'm gathering parts now.
Oh one last question..Can I use any intercooler? He has an Apexi GT Spec intercooler extra(though he didn't say whether he was using that on my car) he just said it was "extra". Okthat's it. Grey thanks for the answers to those questions. Damn I learn something everyday on here.
Oh one last question..Can I use any intercooler? He has an Apexi GT Spec intercooler extra(though he didn't say whether he was using that on my car) he just said it was "extra". Okthat's it. Grey thanks for the answers to those questions. Damn I learn something everyday on here.
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 0 I just thought of something else. I was going to order the oil cooler kit from Jackson Racing. Do you know anything about this one? Any good? Are they pretty universal? Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
Oh and the T3/4 I got is a Turbonetics, I think I forgot to mention it
Oh and the T3/4 I got is a Turbonetics, I think I forgot to mention it
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
From: Orange, California, US
Rep Power: 0
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Maverick
Oh one last question..Can I use any intercooler? He has an Apexi GT Spec intercooler extra(though he didn't say whether he was using that on my car) he just said it was "extra".[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Maverick
Oh one last question..Can I use any intercooler? He has an Apexi GT Spec intercooler extra(though he didn't say whether he was using that on my car) he just said it was "extra".[hr]
water wetter can be found here (the site is for watercooling comps, but the water wetter is the same stuff)
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419 I was initially gonna go with the T25/28, but then I came across this T3/4 which my guy says is better? Is it?
Well, it's bigger. It's also capable of producing much more boost than the T25/28 hybrid. However what good is that boost if you're never going to need it? A T25 is capable of boosting our engines to around 250 horsepower. A T25/28 is capable of boosting our engines to around 350 horsepower. Just think of what that T3/4 hybrid is capable of... Will you ever run that high a boost level? You'll need new internals, that's for sure. Also, that T3/4 turbo is physically bigger. Will it fit? I know that a T3 will, but a T3/4? Also, the bigger the turbo, the more heat it needs to spin up to full power. More heat means more rpm's, so your T3/4 will achieve a certain psi a lot later than a smaller turbo. You need to match the turbo to the engine. Your T3/4 will work, but it will produce the power you need at a higher rpm than something smaller. You'll have more "turbo lag" as it's called.
And second, why wouldn't you try using the D16 turbo manifold? Is it preference or another reason?
Money! I can't afford one. I'de rather buy a welder for $200 and make my own. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Can I use any intercooler?
Sure you can. I know that a certain company that's coming out with an intercooled turbo for our cars had difficulty routing the charge pipes. Their solution was to get rid of the A/C. Kinda stupid IMO. I have an idea for routing the charge pipes, but I need to take off my bumper and look closely to see if it's feasable.
I was going to order the oil cooler kit from Jackson Racing. Do you know anything about this one? Any good? Are they pretty universal?
It's a custom job, 'cause there is no kit that's made specifically for our cars. So yes, they pretty much are universal. I know that fluidyne makes some nice oil coolers. As do other companies. I know that there are some good and cheap choices from optauto.com; that's probably where I will be looking. I will make my own hardware though. Stainless steel lines and fittings and what not. I don't know if we need a pump or not? I know that the oil is pressurized, maybe the turbo kicks it around enough to create a flow through the lines? I will have to research this to be sure. Does that kit you're referring to include a pump?
Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
It's hard to come by. I'm not sure where to get it? I tried Napa once, but they didn't have it. Just use Google.com and search for it. You'll find it. Keywords "redline watter wetter".
Oh and the T3/4 I got is a Turbonetics, I think I forgot to mention it
Wow, you must be loaded. Those turbo's are nice. They do some work on them to make them better than stock. Good luck!
Well, it's bigger. It's also capable of producing much more boost than the T25/28 hybrid. However what good is that boost if you're never going to need it? A T25 is capable of boosting our engines to around 250 horsepower. A T25/28 is capable of boosting our engines to around 350 horsepower. Just think of what that T3/4 hybrid is capable of... Will you ever run that high a boost level? You'll need new internals, that's for sure. Also, that T3/4 turbo is physically bigger. Will it fit? I know that a T3 will, but a T3/4? Also, the bigger the turbo, the more heat it needs to spin up to full power. More heat means more rpm's, so your T3/4 will achieve a certain psi a lot later than a smaller turbo. You need to match the turbo to the engine. Your T3/4 will work, but it will produce the power you need at a higher rpm than something smaller. You'll have more "turbo lag" as it's called.
And second, why wouldn't you try using the D16 turbo manifold? Is it preference or another reason?
Money! I can't afford one. I'de rather buy a welder for $200 and make my own. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Can I use any intercooler?
Sure you can. I know that a certain company that's coming out with an intercooled turbo for our cars had difficulty routing the charge pipes. Their solution was to get rid of the A/C. Kinda stupid IMO. I have an idea for routing the charge pipes, but I need to take off my bumper and look closely to see if it's feasable.
I was going to order the oil cooler kit from Jackson Racing. Do you know anything about this one? Any good? Are they pretty universal?
It's a custom job, 'cause there is no kit that's made specifically for our cars. So yes, they pretty much are universal. I know that fluidyne makes some nice oil coolers. As do other companies. I know that there are some good and cheap choices from optauto.com; that's probably where I will be looking. I will make my own hardware though. Stainless steel lines and fittings and what not. I don't know if we need a pump or not? I know that the oil is pressurized, maybe the turbo kicks it around enough to create a flow through the lines? I will have to research this to be sure. Does that kit you're referring to include a pump?
Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
It's hard to come by. I'm not sure where to get it? I tried Napa once, but they didn't have it. Just use Google.com and search for it. You'll find it. Keywords "redline watter wetter".
Oh and the T3/4 I got is a Turbonetics, I think I forgot to mention it
Wow, you must be loaded. Those turbo's are nice. They do some work on them to make them better than stock. Good luck!
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
From: Orange, California, US
Rep Power: 0
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Grey
Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
It's hard to come by. I'm not sure where to get it? I tried Napa once, but they didn't have it. Just use Google.com and search for it. You'll find it. Keywords "redline watter wetter". [/B][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Grey
Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
It's hard to come by. I'm not sure where to get it? I tried Napa once, but they didn't have it. Just use Google.com and search for it. You'll find it. Keywords "redline watter wetter". [/B][hr]
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 0 Thanks JKeezo and Grey. Now I don't know if I should use the Turbonetics T3/4 or sell it and get a 25/28? Hmmm, what would you do...I only paid 400 bucks for this turbo..brand new...and polished.
DIY King
iTrader: (61)
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 11,469
Likes: 0
From: Shrewsbury, Massachusetts, US
Rep Power: 419
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: JKEEZO
grey missed my post [hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: JKEEZO
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Grey
Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
It's hard to come by. I'm not sure where to get it? I tried Napa once, but they didn't have it. Just use Google.com and search for it. You'll find it. Keywords "redline watter wetter". [/B][hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Grey
Thanks for the tip on the Water Wetter...didn't think of that...where can you get it?
It's hard to come by. I'm not sure where to get it? I tried Napa once, but they didn't have it. Just use Google.com and search for it. You'll find it. Keywords "redline watter wetter". [/B][hr]
[hr]
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Wes
About the D17 engine does it have 2 solenoids / 3stages of Vtec? since it is posted here to have 3 stages.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Wes
About the D17 engine does it have 2 solenoids / 3stages of Vtec? since it is posted here to have 3 stages.[hr]
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Wes
Grey,
I think the s-afc runs at WOT only right and when your running at part throttle the engine may knock? anyway I don't much just a question.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Wes
Grey,
I think the s-afc runs at WOT only right and when your running at part throttle the engine may knock? anyway I don't much just a question.[hr]
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Maverick
Thanks JKeezo and Grey. Now I don't know if I should use the Turbonetics T3/4 or sell it and get a 25/28? Hmmm, what would you do...I only paid 400 bucks for this turbo..brand new...and polished.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Maverick
Thanks JKeezo and Grey. Now I don't know if I should use the Turbonetics T3/4 or sell it and get a 25/28? Hmmm, what would you do...I only paid 400 bucks for this turbo..brand new...and polished.[hr]
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: xHoteKx
grey, when scientists are able to make chips so ppl can download information, im just ganna use your brain for my database... then maybe i could make my own DIY turbo..[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: xHoteKx
grey, when scientists are able to make chips so ppl can download information, im just ganna use your brain for my database... then maybe i could make my own DIY turbo..[hr]
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 478
Likes: 0
From: Bel Air, Maryland, US
Rep Power: 0 well, i'll talk to my guy and see what he thinks...he is a VW expert and does a lot of turbo on them, only recently slapping the turb on 2 integs and one civic...tho no 7th gen. He said it's no prob tho. Soon as I pick up this 86 Golf GTI I'm buying, I'm gonna leave it with him so he can play...I promise to keep you all updated.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
From: Orange, California, US
Rep Power: 0
Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Maverick
Thanks JKeezo and Grey. Now I don't know if I should use the Turbonetics T3/4 or sell it and get a 25/28? Hmmm, what would you do...I only paid 400 bucks for this turbo..brand new...and polished.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Maverick
Thanks JKeezo and Grey. Now I don't know if I should use the Turbonetics T3/4 or sell it and get a 25/28? Hmmm, what would you do...I only paid 400 bucks for this turbo..brand new...and polished.[hr]
IMO a smaller, faster spooling one would be a better choice for the application (unless you're planning on boosting past 250 hp
)the keyword here is IMO because i'm sure that your mechanic knows what he is talking about and i dont claim to be one in the least bit
