Jet ECU - Bought it...
7thgen Power Maker
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From: Buffalo, NY, US
Rep Power: 0 
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,048
Likes: 1
From: Buffalo, NY, US
Rep Power: 0 according to jet.....no....
Will Power Tuning hurt my engine in any way?
No. Best power is always made when air/fuel ratio and the spark tuning has been optimized for maximum power, meaning maximum "push" on the piston during each power stroke. Damage occurs if the air/fuel mixture is too lean, meaning that there is not enough fuel for the amount of air in the cylinder. This results in excess super heated air, which can cause burning of valves and pistons and will also induce detonation (which can break pistons, etc.) Relative to spark timing, too much "advance" will cause detonation, which reduces power and can also damage parts exactly as a lean mixture does. When you finish installing JET Performance on your vehicle, your engine will run at maximum efficiency yet safely distanced from possible damage due to leanness or excessive spark advance.
Will Power Tuning hurt my engine in any way?
No. Best power is always made when air/fuel ratio and the spark tuning has been optimized for maximum power, meaning maximum "push" on the piston during each power stroke. Damage occurs if the air/fuel mixture is too lean, meaning that there is not enough fuel for the amount of air in the cylinder. This results in excess super heated air, which can cause burning of valves and pistons and will also induce detonation (which can break pistons, etc.) Relative to spark timing, too much "advance" will cause detonation, which reduces power and can also damage parts exactly as a lean mixture does. When you finish installing JET Performance on your vehicle, your engine will run at maximum efficiency yet safely distanced from possible damage due to leanness or excessive spark advance.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,702
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From: Chicago Burbs, Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 528 I might be down with the group buy, maybe. Especially if it went on for a few months 
So far this sounds like a decent mod, and it's less than VAFC.
IronFist
So far this sounds like a decent mod, and it's less than VAFC.
IronFist
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,857
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From: Arizona
Rep Power: 327 well to let you guys know, I also have a working AF guage in my car, it still runs in the green (just rich enough - which is normal) even after te jet chip mod. Under wide open throttle there seems to be close to the same a/f mixture. but it does drive better, the accelerator pedal does feel better for some reason (kinda hard to describe). you say they charge too much... see anyone else doing this for our car? how bout offering a lifetime warranty to back it up? when you find something better and more simple for our cars you let me know. but for the time being this was by far the best mod i've done. although I really love the way my suspension rides...two diff things though, do the math
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 171
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From: TORONTO & AKRON, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 0 Well I have the Jet chip and it is the best thing that has come out for our car.. because its all in the ECU and u cant really mess with it and mess it up.. Its plug and play and you can not put on the list something u have and than add it on because they program something in their saying u have it and when u get the ECU back it will beleive that u have it and really dont and u can loose more than actually gaining. yess it must be the absolute last thing done any serious questions than ask me...
Registered!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 171
Likes: 0
From: TORONTO & AKRON, Ontario, Canada
Rep Power: 0 u can but it is really not recomended.. cause when u use nitrious that really messes with the air fuel mixture.. but i dont know 100%.. but i think i would throw some nitrious anyhow!
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 3,101
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by aki
Isn't each car slightly different? Seems like unless its a dynotune you're not maximizing the car's potential..
-Aki
Isn't each car slightly different? Seems like unless its a dynotune you're not maximizing the car's potential..
-Aki
dynotune 
the following was taken off of
www.team-integra.net this is just a snippit of one of their VERY INFORMATIVE tech articles
(now go and sign up and read and learn)
i bolded some of the important points
ECU 101 COURSE: MIKE DELANEY'S ECU BASICS YOU SHOULD KNOW
1. Should I get a "one size-fits all" or "off the shelf" Mugen, Jet , Spoon, Skunk2, Comptech, Neuspeed, FF Squad, Power XS, Bayou Performance, or Dinan ECU which are "best guess" chips? How about getting one of those chips I see for sale on ebay all the time?
1A. First, Don't Chip Too Early
There is no point in getting a new ECU program early in your engine build up and then later upgrading to bigger lift and duration cams, or larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, or an aftermarket IM/bigger bore TB , etc. , since these parts just render your "new" ECU program obsolete and useless (ie. any power gains from the chip are eliminated).
So please do not get your chip reprogrammed just after i/h/c/e , if you later plan on going for bigger & better things in the future. It's supposed to be one of your last modifications and not one of your first, to prevent the need for multiple chip reprogrammings after each addition of a new modification.
The reason you see so many chips for resale on ebay?:
Other enthusiasts made the mistake of buying a chip too early that was not programmed correctly for the unique way their engine package breathes. It made very little power for them , or likely made their engine run too rich, or both. They are now trying to recover the money lost from an obsolete or incompatible chip.
Then there are the programmers who take advantage of import enthusiasts who do not understand the performance difference between a pre-programmed, mail-order chip versus a chip tuned and programmed on your car at a dyno. They are selling them based on the attractiveness of convenience for unsuspecting people who don't have a local programmer and dyno, the hyped hp gains from the magazine articles or ads, and a lower cost compared to other significant hp gain modifications, like cams or an intake manifold (IM).
1B. Second, What does an ECU do and what am I doing when I get a new chip ?
The ECU controls:
- the fuel map (ie. program commands for how much fuel to add at each rpm) and sequential firing of the injectors
- ignition map (program commands for how much spark timing to advance or retard from the baseline ignition timing you set at the distibutor cap at each rpm)
- VTEC switchover
- Redline
- Speed limiter (JDM and European models)
- Knock sensor warning
- Second O2 sensor CEL warning in OBD 2 and OBD 2b cars for testpipes and high flow cats and closed loop operations
- Activates the opening of the secondary runners' valves based on the IAB vacuum input, if you have a dual stage IM (eg. 3rd gen. GSR)
The ECU also activates your other CEL error codes and controls A/C & Idle/EVAP inputs/outputs.
When you get a new chip, the programmer has changed the program's commands of the ignition map and fuel map in response to a change in air flow and rpm (ie. both are indicators of "engine load"). The amount of ignition timing and fuel delivery is changed for a given air flow and rpm compared to the stock program. The programmer can also remove or inactivate the sensor CEL warning codes and move the VTEC point, redline, and speed limiter points to anywhere you like.
http://hondata.com/techecuanatomy.html
1C. Third, "Best Guess" programs are not as good.
http://www.technosquareinc.com/techtom.htm
http://www.techtom.co.jp/ROMpriceN.html
http://www.hondata.com/ecucomparison.html
http://www.200sx.org/ecudata.html
An "off the shelf" or mail order ECU is a programmer's best guess at trying to make a program that will fit as many different engine combination of mods as possible...that's why I call these "one-size-fits-all". These usually get you in the no gain or 5% disappointment gain ballpark. You will not get major gains with these "best guess" chips. Save your money.
So you want to make major power gains (ie. 13-15% or at least 7 whp from midrange up) with an ECU reprogram?
Please get a true custom chip instead, programmed on YOUR unique car with its own combination of mods, on a dyno using a wideband exhaust O2 sensor/Air:Fuel Ratio meter. This is the only way to go, if you are serious about getting the most out of a computer program upgrade for a street/race setup. If you got your chip by mail then, please understand that you did not get the most out of it...even the custom pre-programmed, mail-order kind of chips. The only correct way is to do the reprogramming on the dyno. And this leads us to who do you go to?
If you are lucky like me and have a couple of local programmers with Honda experience near your town, then your local programmer will go with you to the dyno and work his experience in tuning on the laptop and EPROM or EEPROM burner.
If you do not have a local programmer or race shop that does programming, then I strongly recommend getting together with some friends and investing in a Hondata Stage 4 or P200 system. It allows YOU to tune YOUR car on the dyno or at the track using elapsed times between known rpm points.
It comes with a chip burner, chips ($25/each), emulation laptop capability, instructions, and tech support. Investing in a wide band O2 sensor like the MOTEC they sell is also a good idea. This takes the guess and disappointment out of ECU upgrading.
If you want to go at this alone, then an AEM EMS is worth looking into, since it has base programs and laptop emulation. This is a serious investment for serious people.
If neither of these appeal to you and you insist on getting a mail order chip knowing that it won't be the best program, then stick to the known programmers (PM me if you want recommendations from people I've known who do a decent "best guess" chip). Most people who buy a mail order chip usually have a piggyback tuning box, like an Apex fuel controller (SAFC or VAFC) or Field SFC VTEC/fuel controller, and use those to further tune the fuel delivery on the dyno with a wideband O2 sensor.
http://www.hondata.com/techwidebandtuning.html
Chip reprogramming at the dyno requires a wideband universal exhaust gas oxygen sensors (called an UEGO that you can get from dyno shop or race shop) to measure air:fuel ratio at each rpm. Expect at least 3-4 hr dyno time minimum to tune these even if you are experienced at partial and wide open throttle fuel tuning.
Other systems to consider are the Motec M4, Apex Power FC, Accel DFI, SDS EF3, and Electromotive Tec3. Compare processor speed (16 bit, 16 MHz versus 32 bit, 33MHz ), available baseline programs to get you going without starting from scratch, sensor compatibility, emulators availability, and a good track record for tech support/customer service (not just whether they have one or not).
1. Should I get a "one size-fits all" or "off the shelf" Mugen, Jet , Spoon, Skunk2, Comptech, Neuspeed, FF Squad, Power XS, Bayou Performance, or Dinan ECU which are "best guess" chips? How about getting one of those chips I see for sale on ebay all the time?
1A. First, Don't Chip Too Early
There is no point in getting a new ECU program early in your engine build up and then later upgrading to bigger lift and duration cams, or larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, or an aftermarket IM/bigger bore TB , etc. , since these parts just render your "new" ECU program obsolete and useless (ie. any power gains from the chip are eliminated).
So please do not get your chip reprogrammed just after i/h/c/e , if you later plan on going for bigger & better things in the future. It's supposed to be one of your last modifications and not one of your first, to prevent the need for multiple chip reprogrammings after each addition of a new modification.
The reason you see so many chips for resale on ebay?:
Other enthusiasts made the mistake of buying a chip too early that was not programmed correctly for the unique way their engine package breathes. It made very little power for them , or likely made their engine run too rich, or both. They are now trying to recover the money lost from an obsolete or incompatible chip.
Then there are the programmers who take advantage of import enthusiasts who do not understand the performance difference between a pre-programmed, mail-order chip versus a chip tuned and programmed on your car at a dyno. They are selling them based on the attractiveness of convenience for unsuspecting people who don't have a local programmer and dyno, the hyped hp gains from the magazine articles or ads, and a lower cost compared to other significant hp gain modifications, like cams or an intake manifold (IM).
1B. Second, What does an ECU do and what am I doing when I get a new chip ?
The ECU controls:
- the fuel map (ie. program commands for how much fuel to add at each rpm) and sequential firing of the injectors
- ignition map (program commands for how much spark timing to advance or retard from the baseline ignition timing you set at the distibutor cap at each rpm)
- VTEC switchover
- Redline
- Speed limiter (JDM and European models)
- Knock sensor warning
- Second O2 sensor CEL warning in OBD 2 and OBD 2b cars for testpipes and high flow cats and closed loop operations
- Activates the opening of the secondary runners' valves based on the IAB vacuum input, if you have a dual stage IM (eg. 3rd gen. GSR)
The ECU also activates your other CEL error codes and controls A/C & Idle/EVAP inputs/outputs.
When you get a new chip, the programmer has changed the program's commands of the ignition map and fuel map in response to a change in air flow and rpm (ie. both are indicators of "engine load"). The amount of ignition timing and fuel delivery is changed for a given air flow and rpm compared to the stock program. The programmer can also remove or inactivate the sensor CEL warning codes and move the VTEC point, redline, and speed limiter points to anywhere you like.
http://hondata.com/techecuanatomy.html
1C. Third, "Best Guess" programs are not as good.
http://www.technosquareinc.com/techtom.htm
http://www.techtom.co.jp/ROMpriceN.html
http://www.hondata.com/ecucomparison.html
http://www.200sx.org/ecudata.html
An "off the shelf" or mail order ECU is a programmer's best guess at trying to make a program that will fit as many different engine combination of mods as possible...that's why I call these "one-size-fits-all". These usually get you in the no gain or 5% disappointment gain ballpark. You will not get major gains with these "best guess" chips. Save your money.
So you want to make major power gains (ie. 13-15% or at least 7 whp from midrange up) with an ECU reprogram?
Please get a true custom chip instead, programmed on YOUR unique car with its own combination of mods, on a dyno using a wideband exhaust O2 sensor/Air:Fuel Ratio meter. This is the only way to go, if you are serious about getting the most out of a computer program upgrade for a street/race setup. If you got your chip by mail then, please understand that you did not get the most out of it...even the custom pre-programmed, mail-order kind of chips. The only correct way is to do the reprogramming on the dyno. And this leads us to who do you go to?
If you are lucky like me and have a couple of local programmers with Honda experience near your town, then your local programmer will go with you to the dyno and work his experience in tuning on the laptop and EPROM or EEPROM burner.
If you do not have a local programmer or race shop that does programming, then I strongly recommend getting together with some friends and investing in a Hondata Stage 4 or P200 system. It allows YOU to tune YOUR car on the dyno or at the track using elapsed times between known rpm points.
It comes with a chip burner, chips ($25/each), emulation laptop capability, instructions, and tech support. Investing in a wide band O2 sensor like the MOTEC they sell is also a good idea. This takes the guess and disappointment out of ECU upgrading.
If you want to go at this alone, then an AEM EMS is worth looking into, since it has base programs and laptop emulation. This is a serious investment for serious people.
If neither of these appeal to you and you insist on getting a mail order chip knowing that it won't be the best program, then stick to the known programmers (PM me if you want recommendations from people I've known who do a decent "best guess" chip). Most people who buy a mail order chip usually have a piggyback tuning box, like an Apex fuel controller (SAFC or VAFC) or Field SFC VTEC/fuel controller, and use those to further tune the fuel delivery on the dyno with a wideband O2 sensor.
http://www.hondata.com/techwidebandtuning.html
Chip reprogramming at the dyno requires a wideband universal exhaust gas oxygen sensors (called an UEGO that you can get from dyno shop or race shop) to measure air:fuel ratio at each rpm. Expect at least 3-4 hr dyno time minimum to tune these even if you are experienced at partial and wide open throttle fuel tuning.
Other systems to consider are the Motec M4, Apex Power FC, Accel DFI, SDS EF3, and Electromotive Tec3. Compare processor speed (16 bit, 16 MHz versus 32 bit, 33MHz ), available baseline programs to get you going without starting from scratch, sensor compatibility, emulators availability, and a good track record for tech support/customer service (not just whether they have one or not).
now go approve my post!
Last edited by CivicHX01; Jul 27, 2003 at 11:27 PM.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 22,702
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Burbs, Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 528 Um, how do we know this isn't like the Venom thing.
If I remember correctly, the Venom program (or chip or whatever it was) doesn't add any max power at WOT (wide open throttle), it just makes it feel like you're pushing the gas down farther than you actually are.
Ie. Pushing it down 20% of the way might feel like 35% before you got the chip. Therefore, you think "hey, I get more power from the same amount of pressing the gas" and it feels like an hp boost.
But, pushing it down all the way is still the same as it was before, because no hp has been added.
Make sense?
I hope this Jet chip doesn't just fool you like that.
So you guys who have it... is there more power at WOT?
IronFist
If I remember correctly, the Venom program (or chip or whatever it was) doesn't add any max power at WOT (wide open throttle), it just makes it feel like you're pushing the gas down farther than you actually are.
Ie. Pushing it down 20% of the way might feel like 35% before you got the chip. Therefore, you think "hey, I get more power from the same amount of pressing the gas" and it feels like an hp boost.
But, pushing it down all the way is still the same as it was before, because no hp has been added.
Make sense?
I hope this Jet chip doesn't just fool you like that.
So you guys who have it... is there more power at WOT?
IronFist
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
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Posts: 9,048
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From: Buffalo, NY, US
Rep Power: 0 Emailed jet...these questions:
1. Will the ECU be able to be used with a nitrous set-up or turbo apps that have been added to a vehicle that doesn't come stock like this ? (i.e.-A 2002 Civic turbo'd or a 95 Eclipse 2.0L naturally aspirated motor with nitrous added)
>
> 2.Will the ECU be able to be used with other engine/fuel management systems? (i.e.-GReddy E-manage, AEM EMS, A'PEXi S-AFC II & V-AFC II...)
>
> 3. Is your ECU upgrade a flash to the stock ECU or a new chip soldiered in?
>
> 4. Does your ECU upgrade for the Eclipse fit all the apps of the eclipse? (i.e.-95 Eclipse Turbo AWD, 99 Eclipse RS 2WD naturally aspirated, 03 Eclipse 4 & 6cyl motors)
1. Will the ECU be able to be used with a nitrous set-up or turbo apps that have been added to a vehicle that doesn't come stock like this ? (i.e.-A 2002 Civic turbo'd or a 95 Eclipse 2.0L naturally aspirated motor with nitrous added)
>
> 2.Will the ECU be able to be used with other engine/fuel management systems? (i.e.-GReddy E-manage, AEM EMS, A'PEXi S-AFC II & V-AFC II...)
>
> 3. Is your ECU upgrade a flash to the stock ECU or a new chip soldiered in?
>
> 4. Does your ECU upgrade for the Eclipse fit all the apps of the eclipse? (i.e.-95 Eclipse Turbo AWD, 99 Eclipse RS 2WD naturally aspirated, 03 Eclipse 4 & 6cyl motors)
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 9,048
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From: Buffalo, NY, US
Rep Power: 0 The response by jet:
1- Yes, as long as you use a timing retard, and augment the fuel
2- Not with the greddy ecm or the aem ecm. The s-afc and v-afc, yes.
3- it would be a flash.
4-The ecu upgrades are all done per the application, in other words, do all the modifications you intend on doing before you get the ecu upgraded. That way the program can be set up for the specific modifications. Hp gains would be dependant on the extent of modifications.
1- Yes, as long as you use a timing retard, and augment the fuel
2- Not with the greddy ecm or the aem ecm. The s-afc and v-afc, yes.
3- it would be a flash.
4-The ecu upgrades are all done per the application, in other words, do all the modifications you intend on doing before you get the ecu upgraded. That way the program can be set up for the specific modifications. Hp gains would be dependant on the extent of modifications.
Cracka
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 0
From: Boise, Idaho, US
Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by djlutchi
The response by jet:
1- Yes, as long as you use a timing retard, and augment the fuel
2- Not with the greddy ecm or the aem ecm. The s-afc and v-afc, yes.
3- it would be a flash.
4-The ecu upgrades are all done per the application, in other words, do all the modifications you intend on doing before you get the ecu upgraded. That way the program can be set up for the specific modifications. Hp gains would be dependant on the extent of modifications.
The response by jet:
1- Yes, as long as you use a timing retard, and augment the fuel
2- Not with the greddy ecm or the aem ecm. The s-afc and v-afc, yes.
3- it would be a flash.
4-The ecu upgrades are all done per the application, in other words, do all the modifications you intend on doing before you get the ecu upgraded. That way the program can be set up for the specific modifications. Hp gains would be dependant on the extent of modifications.
