Saratoga

I will be replacing the rear brakes shortly. I intended to buy Honda brake shoes from the dealer, or Internet. But, before I do can someone tell me if there is a better brand brakes available? I have 92,000 miles on the car and it sees normal use ( back and forth from work, etc.). I inspected the drums and they looked good. I don't have calipers to measure the inside diameter. Should they be replaced as a matter of course?

Mad Dog Tannen

I would get the drums turned or replaced, just so that the shoes mate up properly. I don't know much about Honda brake pads, but I have used aftermarket pads for as long as I can remember and never had problems.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

At 92k they should still be fine.

ezone

At 200k Hondas drum brakes should still be fine.

What year is the car?
How many sets of front brakes have already been replaced?

If you had your drums off, how thick is the lining material remaining on the brake shoes?
Rear Disc brakes are a different ball game, Hondas drum brakes will last a damn long time.

I would not resurface Hondas rear drums without a really good reason, because that's just begging for more problems than you started with LOL.

Saratoga

The car was purchased new in December of 2008. I replaced the front brakes at 63363 miles. I measured the rear brake shoe lining thickness. On the passenger's side it is was close to 4.0 mm. On the driver's side it was 2.5 mm. Visually there was a noticeable difference so I believe my measurements, but I will measure again.

ezone

Make sure you measure the lining, not including the steel behind it.
Forward shoe (or leading shoe) will wear more than the rear shoe.

If you have really uneven wear between left and right sides, see if you have a handbrake cable sticking or damaged, causing one side to drag or stay applied.

Hondas front brake pads typically wear far faster than their rear shoes--- by (IMO) at least 5:1 .

Mad Dog Tannen

All cars brakes wear way faster in the front. It's because the front's do 80% of the braking power.

I am ordering Powerstop shoes, drums and hardware for the rears (a kit for about $80 at Rock Auto) on my 97. They are a little warped and the shoes are just right for replacing. I recommend going with aftermarket, because they are cheaper and you seem to do normal driving.

ezone

Not all do.

Mad Dog Tannen

I don't believe you. Which cars don't?

ezone

For Honda a recent one is 08-10 Accord. Rear pads wore way faster than fronts, then they changed pad compounds and now they wear out fairly evenly.

Mazda had some older models with rear drum brakes that IMO were well designed, they always needed replacement at the same time as the fronts. Reliable and super simple self adjust mechanism too... the easiest drum brakes to change I've ever encountered..

Chrysler minivans...ugh.

Mad Dog Tannen

Those are all defective products or poorly engineered. I don't see that as cars that wear rear brakes faster, because they where all fixed with recalls and now wear faster in the front like normal.

RIPSAW

Actually compared to older American cars, my Hondas probably wear out about the same time front to back , but Honda does a better job of making the front larger (Mercedes does even better) However, I do not charge red lights and brake at the last moment like 99% of the others out there, so I probably keep the back tires on the road more then most.

I had good luck with China rotors from Autozone on my CRV. (better even casting then OEM Honda , the were dead perfect in the machining and the brake faces were Blanchard ground..no more build up that caused brake shudder ever 10K that I had been having since the car turned the first 10K)

Best Gold Pads from them on my CRV had to be shimmed on end clips to keep them from clicking so bad after you backed up and then braked going fwd. Should have went OEM there. No difference in actual braking but I fell for the lifetime warranty..

ezone

Your opinion.

Saratoga

I jacked the car up and released the parking brake. Both tires rotated freely. There was a slight scrapping noise that occurred briefly once each revolution on both sides. I assume that this was the brake shoe rubbing against the drum. There was no noticeable difference between the driver's side and the passenger’s side. Based on this can I say that the handbrake cable is not sticking?

ezone

Not sticking right now.

Visual check on the handbrake cables?
Any sharp bend or kink?
Outer sheath worn or torn that could allow water entry and subsequent corrosion inside the cable?
Drum friction surface finish is smooth?
Hose problem?

How about the other side, the side that's not worn: Is there a reason it's NOT working up to snuff?
Stuck wheel cylinder piston?
Air bled out? Hose problem?

IDK. It seems quite unusual that the brake on one side of the car would be that much more worn than the other, especially when there are so few problems with their drum brakes in general.

Mad Dog Tannen

Did you have any sources to back up your statement?

I do...

http://www.knowyourparts.com/basics-brakes-bearings/

ezone

I'll just copy and paste this from your link:

"Another factor that has accelerated brake wear (especially rear brake wear) in certain late model vehicles is the change to electronic brake proportioning."
....
"This approach helps the vehicle stop in a shorter distance, but also increases rear brake wear dramatically. This means the rear brakes will often wear out before the front brakes."

Mad Dog Tannen

Touche sir. I guess some specific new cars with electronic proportioning valves used with ABS can wear rears faster.

It is however an exception to the rule. It is common knowledge that 70-80% of braking is done by the fronts, and that is why they wear faster. I guess my absolute "all" statement was incorrect, but the message to the OP still remains the same for his purposes. Lets not confuse the less knowledgable with exceptions and rare cases. Giving the impression that type of wear is typical is misleading, especially when it's not normal on his car.

"In vehicles with a conventional proportioning valve, the front brakes typically wear two to three times faster than the pads or shoes in the rear." -directly quoted from my link

ezone

If you want to look into the Accord rear brake thing I mentioned, there was never a recall on them in the US.....
What you were thinking of was a class action lawsuit settlement.

There are few absolutes when it comes to cars LOL.


Note how often the article uses words like "if", "may", "can", "typically", etc. It's written this way on purpose. It's a general information article intended for the novice, not the professional.



Derailing threads is fun!

Mad Dog Tannen

Incorrect. I was thinking of all of the recalls that came up when I searched the issues you described (you left no references or links to back up anything). I found quick general info on all of the many cases you mentioned. Almost all of them had to do with defective recalled parts. It really sounds like they should have done a recall instead of settling for the accord issue. Do you have any links about it? I am still just taking your word for it (random internet person).

"Note how often the article uses words like "if", "may", "can", "typically", etc. It's written this way on purpose. It's a general information article intended for the novice, not the professional." -ezone

Note: I am in 2 research classes just this semester, and I am knowledgeable in logic. I am well aware of the terms you highlighted. I probably have forgotten more about APA and MLA than you have ever known. So just leave the condescending bullshit out of this, ok?

ezone

What did you search for, if you didn't know specific models and model years I was thinking of as I wrote my reply?


http://settlement-claims.com/accordsettlement/


What is "adversed"?

I might say the same to you about fixing cars.
I do have someone experienced in APA writing style available if needed.

Mad Dog Tannen

I hope that info about rear brake wear helped the OP. Good day sir.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

geeeez, Mad Dog,

most of us don't go against ezone... He creamed most of us already at this point He stutters only if it's about aftermarket parts (You do know he is a former Mazda and current Honda mechanic that solved the highest number of mysterious issues in cars we ever saw in the forums, non?)

Bought my replacement rear shoes at 85k miles.

They are still in the original boxes... After removing the hubs, the original shoes looked brand new... Now at 116k miles and still no signs of them wanting to give up...

now, on my other cars, rear pads goes at twice the rate the front goes. Mad Dog, my other cars are at 50/50 weight distributions. One have higher spring rates. It uses a whole lot more rear pads than the civic.

Yes, there are more cars that uses the rear pads. A lot depends on spring rates and also weight distribution. Naturally, a front engine one will use a whole lot more fronts (aside from mentioned distribution.)

Also, the one that eats more rear brakes is a ABS equipped one. The other one is no ABS. Civic does not count because too much weight in front and FWD.

Mad Dog Tannen

Right? He has to have the last word. It's ok, I remember when he first joined this forum, he sure has got a big head since then. He also has learned a lot since then, I remember when he was modding with a lot of cosmetic ricer crap. I am glad to see he is more capable now.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

?!?

You are confusing ezone with someone else...

Saratoga

Your response got me thinking. Every October or November I change my brake fluid by bleeding the system. Last year, when I was bleeding the side which has the abnormal wear, I got distracted and had to step away from the job for a while. I may have left the bleeder valve open. I don't remember if I continued bleeding that side or if I closed the valve and moved on to the next wheel. Could air have entered thru the bleed valve and over the course of about a year the wear on that side be accelerated?

ezone

If a bleeder was just left wide open you would have had bigger problems shortly after that. Fluid lost, wet wheel and tire, warning lights on, low pedal.

If it was just left open too long after someone had pumped the pedal, and let the pedal up with the bleeder still open it can suck in air.