Dobber1

Here's the history:
Purchased new June 2007.
4DR LX Model w/1.8L & AT
213,000 salesman highway miles.
40+ oil changes & an air filter or 2?
Purchase branded fuel.
TSB upper control arms replaced.
Replaced front brake pads twice.
Replaced battery.
No other maintenance.

Here's the story:
Fueled up at my normal station...within a couple miles while stopped at a light, car started to idle rough. Accelerated from the light, but if given too much pedal, it would fall on it's face. Back off a little and would pick up speed, but not like normal. Made it 6 miles home driving 50-55, but engine wasn't comfortable running 60. Let it idle roughly in driveway while I poured a bottle of Iso-Heet in the fuel tank thinking maybe some moisture. Took for a drive up the highway to see if the additive would remedy the issue. Ran so-so for a few miles, then when into what seemed limp mode & yes, the check engine light was on. Drove in limp mode feathering the pedal to keep it running for about a mile, then just stalled. Wouldn't restart right away, so waitied a few minutes pondering my situation, then got it fired up, sped home as fast as I could before I had to call for a tow. Went out the next morning & would crank, but not fire or even sound like it wanted to.

Here's the codes, in order if that matters:
P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0300 - Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0300 - Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P0201 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected

Question for you code pros...
Am I seeing 2 sets of codes due to the vehicle being restarted once after this problem started happening? Just curious....

I have not done anything to start troubleshooting except read a chitload on the forums. I DID read ALL of the Post/Novel between "ezone" & "fsckewe" about his misfiring issue on the '03 though. THAT's why I haven't gotten anything done!

Thanks in advance for your help & flaming my ****.

itzsleepy

Sounds like you may need new coil packs and plugs for your car. I had this happen on my 00 civic a couple of years ago. Changed my brakes in the garage and then started the car and it started to idle really rough.. Drove it for a few miles and then the car crapped out on me. I had to have to towed to a shop. Shop said something about bad wires but suggested to do a full tune up for cheap so I said go ahead. It was due anyways. Car ran fine afterwards.

ezone

That's about the length of time it takes for a fresh load of bad gas to make it to the engine (returnless fuel system).

Pull a spark plug and look, and smell it. Does it smell like gas or does it smell like something else?

Take a fuel sample from the fuel line at the engine in a tall, clear glass jar, let it settle out.
See if it smells like diesel or if the fuel separates out in any way. I bet it won't be 100% gasoline. It's going to be contaminated in some way.
E85 won't kill the engine, but it will set a lean code. So it isn't that.




Assuming it IS bad gas:
Contact the gas station, tell them you have a tank of bad fuel from them. They may already know about it and compensate you for repairs if they are reputable. Contact a reputable and trusted shop.

Dump the tank. You may need to drop the tank to clean every last bit out. Same for the rest of the fuel lines and rail, they may need thorough drain and cleaning.
Fuel filter? Yeah right, it is inside the tank module. You might get a fuel pump out of this.
You might need fresh plugs.
You might need more, after it runs again.

We had a 10 Odyssey in the shop that got diesel in the tank.....you don't want to know how expensive that one was.

Dobber1

[quote=ezone;4587649]That's about the length of time it takes for a fresh load of bad gas to make it to the engine (returnless fuel system).

Pull a spark plug and look, and smell it. Does it smell like gas or does it smell like something else?

Take a fuel sample from the fuel line at the engine in a tall, clear glass jar, let it settle out.
See if it smells like diesel or if the fuel separates out in any way. I bet it won't be 100% gasoline. It's going to be contaminated in some way.
E85 won't kill the engine, but it will set a lean code. So it isn't that.
quote]

ezone,
Thanks for your prompt reply...
You speak of a returnless system...meaning the fuel stays in the lines when the engine is turned off vs. all the fuel returning to the tank, correct? Just trying to understand.
Pulled one plug, that did smell like gas.
Where's the easiest/best place to intercept the fuel line in the engine compartment.
I'll get that sample and report back.
Thanks again,
D1

ezone

Returnless is a fuel system that has the pressure regulator somewhere other than the fuel rail. On this car it is in the tank. There is only one line that carries liquid fuel to the engine. Whatever is in that line must exit through the fuel injectors. It can take several minutes for the bad fuel to reach the injectors, depending on the load.

A return type has the pressure regulator on the fuel rail, and fuel constantly circulates from the pump to the engine fuel rail, and back to the tank. It would only take a matter of several seconds to circulate bad fuel to the fuel rail on one of those.

The plug should smell like gas, but does it smell like anything else too?

I use the quick-connect fittings where the plastic fuel lines connect. There is one on the fuel rail in the middle, and there is one on the pipe at the firewall. It's a really tight area to work in too.


Your only other choice would be to uncork the line right at the tank/pump unit and take the sample there. I'd probably get at least a half quart in a quart jar.....

Cycle the key a few times so the pump does its 2 second prime run.

I actually use a 100ml graduated cylinder for this, and I do alcohol tests too. I didn't figure the average person would have one of those laying around though.

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

ezone may be on the right path here... I got a unleaded/diesel fuel mix in one of my Corollas once (tanker truck put diesel in wrong tank)

Congrats on the 200k + 8th gen.

Dobber1

No update yet...work seems to be getting in the way of looking at the car. Hopefully in a day or two I can get a fuel sample. Really curious to see what I find. The fuel for this store is delivered by a family member of the owners. They own 5 stores in town and are a customer of mine. I was at their company Super Bowl party before I stopped for fuel on the way home. I have my doubts on finding any contaminant, but you just never know. I've been on the other side of this also, as I was a partner in a c-store. Had my share of "pushaways" from the pumps. We had a cracked vent line that would allow water after heavy rains to find it's way into the premium. Not a good feeling when a BMW or Lexus won't start at your store after fueling.

Any tricks to unhooking the fuel line at the fuel rail? Looks like some type of plastic connector or something between the fuel hose & metal rail.
Thanks again,
D1

ezone

Well bad gas was my first guess, only based on the time span involved.

Doesn't matter if they are friends or not. Doesn't make bad gas any less bad.


There should have been a black safety cover over the fitting. Pops off.
Squeeze the tabs #1 together until the locks (in the little cutout area #2) release, pull and the lines apart. Sometimes pliers helps if you can't squeeze them with your fingers.
Toss a rag over it before you separate the line so gas doesn't squirt into your eyeball.
Remove the gas cap too.




HTH

Dobber1

Ding, ding, ding......we have a winner!

Crap, now I have to discuss this with them...

Update tomorrow.
D1

ezone

How did you find it? What did it look like?

Post a pic of the clear jar? Maybe with light behind it or something?

CraigW

iTrader: (1)

Bring back the visible pump !! or at least the little bubble glass on the side

It certainly was an ordeal when it happened to me.

Dobber1

Here ya go! (sorry it's not a "clear" jar)



Gas station owner:
"Yes, we had a problem. Have it towed to where you want it fixed and bring us all the receipts."

What should I make sure the shop (I'm 50 miles from the Honda dealer) does to make sure I get the most life out of what's left of this car. The car looks 4-5 years old like it should, but has 213K miles on it. I was hoping for another 3+ years before I pushed it off a cliff, or gave to someone less fortunate who could use 'transportation'.

Thanks,
D1

ezone

Good for him, he's ethical. Probably has insurance that covers events like this.

The tank needs to be drained completely, and I don't mean just run the fuel pump until no more liquid comes out (there is still a significant amount of gas the pump can't pump out). I mean DRAINED. If they have to pull the tank, do it. If they can get in there with a straw and suck it completely dry, that's fine too.
But if there is sediment or crud on the bottom of the tank, it needs pulled and cleaned.
Purge the lines and fuel rail....
Are there solids in that jar???? If no solids, the injectors will probably be ok.

Fuel filter, it is inside the pump module. Replace it. Looks like Honda sells the filter set by itself if you want it that way.

Dobber1

OK, thanks for all your expertise ezone!

Solids? That dark line between the fuel & the chit in the lower half of the bottle in the picture, sorta looks like something that leaked out of the Exxon Valdez, but there doesn't seem to be any sediment on the bottom.

Thanks again!
D1