Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum If you've got a problem you just can't figure out, a noise you can't diagnose, or a Check Engine Light that won't go away, ask about it here!

07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Old 02-12-2012
  #1  
Registered!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
Dobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the rough
07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Here's the history:
Purchased new June 2007.
4DR LX Model w/1.8L & AT
213,000 salesman highway miles.
40+ oil changes & an air filter or 2?
Purchase branded fuel.
TSB upper control arms replaced.
Replaced front brake pads twice.
Replaced battery.
No other maintenance.

Here's the story:
Fueled up at my normal station...within a couple miles while stopped at a light, car started to idle rough. Accelerated from the light, but if given too much pedal, it would fall on it's face. Back off a little and would pick up speed, but not like normal. Made it 6 miles home driving 50-55, but engine wasn't comfortable running 60. Let it idle roughly in driveway while I poured a bottle of Iso-Heet in the fuel tank thinking maybe some moisture. Took for a drive up the highway to see if the additive would remedy the issue. Ran so-so for a few miles, then when into what seemed limp mode & yes, the check engine light was on. Drove in limp mode feathering the pedal to keep it running for about a mile, then just stalled. Wouldn't restart right away, so waitied a few minutes pondering my situation, then got it fired up, sped home as fast as I could before I had to call for a tow. Went out the next morning & would crank, but not fire or even sound like it wanted to.

Here's the codes, in order if that matters:
P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0300 - Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0300 - Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P0201 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected

Question for you code pros...
Am I seeing 2 sets of codes due to the vehicle being restarted once after this problem started happening? Just curious....

I have not done anything to start troubleshooting except read a chitload on the forums. I DID read ALL of the Post/Novel between "ezone" & "fsckewe" about his misfiring issue on the '03 though. THAT's why I haven't gotten anything done!

Thanks in advance for your help & flaming my ****.
Dobber1 is offline  
Old 02-12-2012
  #2  
Registered!!
 
itzsleepy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NY
Posts: 48
Rep Power: 0
itzsleepy is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Originally Posted by Dobber1 View Post
Here's the history:
Purchased new June 2007.
4DR LX Model w/1.8L & AT
213,000 salesman highway miles.
40+ oil changes & an air filter or 2?
Purchase branded fuel.
TSB upper control arms replaced.
Replaced front brake pads twice.
Replaced battery.
No other maintenance.

Here's the story:
Fueled up at my normal station...within a couple miles while stopped at a light, car started to idle rough. Accelerated from the light, but if given too much pedal, it would fall on it's face. Back off a little and would pick up speed, but not like normal. Made it 6 miles home driving 50-55, but engine wasn't comfortable running 60. Let it idle roughly in driveway while I poured a bottle of Iso-Heet in the fuel tank thinking maybe some moisture. Took for a drive up the highway to see if the additive would remedy the issue. Ran so-so for a few miles, then when into what seemed limp mode & yes, the check engine light was on. Drove in limp mode feathering the pedal to keep it running for about a mile, then just stalled. Wouldn't restart right away, so waitied a few minutes pondering my situation, then got it fired up, sped home as fast as I could before I had to call for a tow. Went out the next morning & would crank, but not fire or even sound like it wanted to.

Here's the codes, in order if that matters:
P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0301 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0300 - Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0171 - Bank 1 System Too Lean
P0302 - Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
P0303 - Cylinder 3 Misfire Detected
P0300 - Random Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0304 - Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
P0201 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected

Question for you code pros...
Am I seeing 2 sets of codes due to the vehicle being restarted once after this problem started happening? Just curious....

I have not done anything to start troubleshooting except read a chitload on the forums. I DID read ALL of the Post/Novel between "ezone" & "fsckewe" about his misfiring issue on the '03 though. THAT's why I haven't gotten anything done!

Thanks in advance for your help & flaming my ****.


Sounds like you may need new coil packs and plugs for your car. I had this happen on my 00 civic a couple of years ago. Changed my brakes in the garage and then started the car and it started to idle really rough.. Drove it for a few miles and then the car crapped out on me. I had to have to towed to a shop. Shop said something about bad wires but suggested to do a full tune up for cheap so I said go ahead. It was due anyways. Car ran fine afterwards.
itzsleepy is offline  
Old 02-12-2012
  #3  
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
ezone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, aiming about mid-chest
Posts: 31,394
Rep Power: 426
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Originally Posted by Dobber1 View Post
Fueled up at my normal station...within a couple miles
That's about the length of time it takes for a fresh load of bad gas to make it to the engine (returnless fuel system).

Pull a spark plug and look, and smell it. Does it smell like gas or does it smell like something else?

Take a fuel sample from the fuel line at the engine in a tall, clear glass jar, let it settle out.
See if it smells like diesel or if the fuel separates out in any way. I bet it won't be 100% gasoline. It's going to be contaminated in some way.
E85 won't kill the engine, but it will set a lean code. So it isn't that.




Assuming it IS bad gas:
Contact the gas station, tell them you have a tank of bad fuel from them. They may already know about it and compensate you for repairs if they are reputable. Contact a reputable and trusted shop.

Dump the tank. You may need to drop the tank to clean every last bit out. Same for the rest of the fuel lines and rail, they may need thorough drain and cleaning.
Fuel filter? Yeah right, it is inside the tank module. You might get a fuel pump out of this.
You might need fresh plugs.
You might need more, after it runs again.

We had a 10 Odyssey in the shop that got diesel in the tank.....you don't want to know how expensive that one was.
ezone is offline  
Old 02-12-2012
  #4  
Registered!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
Dobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the rough
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

[quote=ezone;4587649]That's about the length of time it takes for a fresh load of bad gas to make it to the engine (returnless fuel system).

Pull a spark plug and look, and smell it. Does it smell like gas or does it smell like something else?

Take a fuel sample from the fuel line at the engine in a tall, clear glass jar, let it settle out.
See if it smells like diesel or if the fuel separates out in any way. I bet it won't be 100% gasoline. It's going to be contaminated in some way.
E85 won't kill the engine, but it will set a lean code. So it isn't that.
quote]

ezone,
Thanks for your prompt reply...
You speak of a returnless system...meaning the fuel stays in the lines when the engine is turned off vs. all the fuel returning to the tank, correct? Just trying to understand.
Pulled one plug, that did smell like gas.
Where's the easiest/best place to intercept the fuel line in the engine compartment.
I'll get that sample and report back.
Thanks again,
D1
Dobber1 is offline  
Old 02-12-2012
  #5  
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
ezone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, aiming about mid-chest
Posts: 31,394
Rep Power: 426
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Originally Posted by Dobber1 View Post
Thanks for your prompt reply...
You speak of a returnless system...meaning the fuel stays in the lines when the engine is turned off vs. all the fuel returning to the tank, correct? Just trying to understand.

Pulled one plug, that did smell like gas.

Where's the easiest/best place to intercept the fuel line in the engine compartment.
I'll get that sample and report back.
Thanks again,
D1
Returnless is a fuel system that has the pressure regulator somewhere other than the fuel rail. On this car it is in the tank. There is only one line that carries liquid fuel to the engine. Whatever is in that line must exit through the fuel injectors. It can take several minutes for the bad fuel to reach the injectors, depending on the load.

A return type has the pressure regulator on the fuel rail, and fuel constantly circulates from the pump to the engine fuel rail, and back to the tank. It would only take a matter of several seconds to circulate bad fuel to the fuel rail on one of those.

The plug should smell like gas, but does it smell like anything else too?

I use the quick-connect fittings where the plastic fuel lines connect. There is one on the fuel rail in the middle, and there is one on the pipe at the firewall. It's a really tight area to work in too.


Your only other choice would be to uncork the line right at the tank/pump unit and take the sample there. I'd probably get at least a half quart in a quart jar.....

Cycle the key a few times so the pump does its 2 second prime run.

I actually use a 100ml graduated cylinder for this, and I do alcohol tests too. I didn't figure the average person would have one of those laying around though.
ezone is offline  
Old 02-13-2012
  #6  
35+ Years Driving Japanese Autos
iTrader: (1)
 
CraigW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,858
Rep Power: 222
CraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of light
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

ezone may be on the right path here... I got a unleaded/diesel fuel mix in one of my Corollas once (tanker truck put diesel in wrong tank)

Congrats on the 200k + 8th gen.
CraigW is offline  
Old 02-13-2012
  #7  
Registered!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
Dobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the rough
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

No update yet...work seems to be getting in the way of looking at the car. Hopefully in a day or two I can get a fuel sample. Really curious to see what I find. The fuel for this store is delivered by a family member of the owners. They own 5 stores in town and are a customer of mine. I was at their company Super Bowl party before I stopped for fuel on the way home. I have my doubts on finding any contaminant, but you just never know. I've been on the other side of this also, as I was a partner in a c-store. Had my share of "pushaways" from the pumps. We had a cracked vent line that would allow water after heavy rains to find it's way into the premium. Not a good feeling when a BMW or Lexus won't start at your store after fueling.

Any tricks to unhooking the fuel line at the fuel rail? Looks like some type of plastic connector or something between the fuel hose & metal rail.
Thanks again,
D1
Dobber1 is offline  
Old 02-14-2012
  #8  
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
ezone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, aiming about mid-chest
Posts: 31,394
Rep Power: 426
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Well bad gas was my first guess, only based on the time span involved.

Doesn't matter if they are friends or not. Doesn't make bad gas any less bad.


There should have been a black safety cover over the fitting. Pops off.
Squeeze the tabs #1 together until the locks (in the little cutout area #2) release, pull and the lines apart. Sometimes pliers helps if you can't squeeze them with your fingers.
Toss a rag over it before you separate the line so gas doesn't squirt into your eyeball.
Remove the gas cap too.




HTH
ezone is offline  
Old 02-16-2012
  #9  
Registered!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
Dobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the rough
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
Well bad gas was my first guess, only based on the time span involved.

Doesn't matter if they are friends or not. Doesn't make bad gas any less bad.
Ding, ding, ding......we have a winner!

Crap, now I have to discuss this with them...

Update tomorrow.
D1
Dobber1 is offline  
Old 02-16-2012
  #10  
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
ezone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, aiming about mid-chest
Posts: 31,394
Rep Power: 426
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

How did you find it? What did it look like?

Post a pic of the clear jar? Maybe with light behind it or something?
ezone is offline  
Old 02-17-2012
  #11  
35+ Years Driving Japanese Autos
iTrader: (1)
 
CraigW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,858
Rep Power: 222
CraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of lightCraigW is a glorious beacon of light
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Originally Posted by ezone View Post
How did you find it? What did it look like?

Post a pic of the clear jar? Maybe with light behind it or something?
Bring back the visible pump !! or at least the little bubble glass on the side

It certainly was an ordeal when it happened to me.
CraigW is offline  
Old 02-17-2012
  #12  
Registered!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
Dobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the rough
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Here ya go! (sorry it's not a "clear" jar)

Name:  BADGAS.jpg
Views: 415
Size:  53.6 KB

Gas station owner:
"Yes, we had a problem. Have it towed to where you want it fixed and bring us all the receipts."

What should I make sure the shop (I'm 50 miles from the Honda dealer) does to make sure I get the most life out of what's left of this car. The car looks 4-5 years old like it should, but has 213K miles on it. I was hoping for another 3+ years before I pushed it off a cliff, or gave to someone less fortunate who could use 'transportation'.

Thanks,
D1
Dobber1 is offline  
Old 02-17-2012
  #13  
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
 
ezone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, aiming about mid-chest
Posts: 31,394
Rep Power: 426
ezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond reputeezone has a reputation beyond repute
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

Originally Posted by Dobber1 View Post
Gas station owner:
"Yes, we had a problem. Have it towed to where you want it fixed and bring us all the receipts."

What should I make sure the shop (I'm 50 miles from the Honda dealer) does to make sure I get the most life out of what's left of this car. The car looks 4-5 years old like it should, but has 213K miles on it. I was hoping for another 3+ years before I pushed it off a cliff, or gave to someone less fortunate who could use 'transportation'.

Thanks,
D1
Good for him, he's ethical. Probably has insurance that covers events like this.

The tank needs to be drained completely, and I don't mean just run the fuel pump until no more liquid comes out (there is still a significant amount of gas the pump can't pump out). I mean DRAINED. If they have to pull the tank, do it. If they can get in there with a straw and suck it completely dry, that's fine too.
But if there is sediment or crud on the bottom of the tank, it needs pulled and cleaned.
Purge the lines and fuel rail....
Are there solids in that jar???? If no solids, the injectors will probably be ok.

Fuel filter, it is inside the pump module. Replace it. Looks like Honda sells the filter set by itself if you want it that way.
ezone is offline  
Old 02-17-2012
  #14  
Registered!!
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 29
Rep Power: 0
Dobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the roughDobber1 is a jewel in the rough
Re: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?

OK, thanks for all your expertise ezone!

Solids? That dark line between the fuel & the chit in the lower half of the bottle in the picture, sorta looks like something that leaked out of the Exxon Valdez, but there doesn't seem to be any sediment on the bottom.

Thanks again!
D1
Dobber1 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Honda Civic Forum
Replies
Last Post
vtec92
Introduce Yourself!
4
05-04-2017 03:20 AM
Braun
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
0
04-23-2015 09:03 PM
SSMatey
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
4
04-13-2015 06:09 PM
Gunner
Engine
3
10-06-2012 12:37 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: 07 Civic Won't Start, Where to Start?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.