sloth

Hello,

I am having intermittent tire wobble 30 - 45 mph.

I had the tires aligned and balanaced and even tried rotating them. still not luck.

The wobble is on the front passangers side and when it happens, it seems like if I take my foot off of the gas the wobble goes away.

any ideas on what it can be? I took it to multiple shops and they aren't sure or it doesn't wobble for them...

MindBomber

It's probably not the wheel and tire wobbling. Have your suspension inspected.

sloth

thanks for the reply. im a bit of a noob with cars. I tried jacking it up and lifting the tire to see if it may have been a ball joint issue but i didn't see it budge. also the "tire shop" guy said that it probably wasn't a cv joint issue either. but that may be because he didn't hear anything...

are those part of the suspension?

MindBomber

Yes, a tie rod or control arm bushing issue could also cause vibration at speed. If you want to do a simple test, move the front passenger side wheel to the back and see if the vibration follows.

sloth

yup when I said I rotated them, that is what I actually did. I swapped the front and back tires on the passengers side of the car and I still had a wobble in the same spot. front passengers wheel.

so it can't be the wheel itself causing the issue.

I just don't want my wheel to fly off

MindBomber

An understandable desire. The control arm bushings are easy to check and I think those are the cause. What year civic?

sloth

its an 2001,

I just jacked it up it seems like there is a bushing or something of that nature at the front of the knuckle.. ( i think that is what it is called. )

this is more toward the radiator of the car..

anyways after inspecting the problem side and the other side it seems like this bushing has died. I'll upload a pic shortly

sloth

this is the Bushing that I am talking about. the drivers side looks dirter and the knuckle seems to be balanced on the bushing where this one seems to be all the way down.

MindBomber

It's hard to tell from that photo if it's torn, an angle looking down at the centre of the bushing would be a bit more helpful.

It's very common for the bushings to tear on 01-05 Civics, almost inevitable. The repair should cost $200-250 if the bushings are torn on both the driver and passenger control arms, which is likely.

sloth

I am pretty sure you are right. i think it is the control arm bushing that is causing the issue.

in the picture the control arm is on the very bottom of the bushing. when I took it off the jack, it raised up a little bit.

sloth

this is the best picture of the top of the bushing i could get with the wheel on... but it still isn't that good of a pic though.



This is the bushing on the "good" side you can see that the control arm isn't riding the bottom like the bad side. ( compare to first pic)

MindBomber

Yup, that bushing is definitely toast.

You can replace it with OEM replacements, upgraded Energy suspension replacements or completely replace the control arm. It's not a terribly difficult job to DIY, if you have some basic skills.

sloth

Thanks for your help on this issue. I really appreciate it.

I'm debating on whether I should try the work myself. it seems pretty straight forward.

sloth

I did the work my self with the help of my family.

We replaced the control arm bushings with energy suspension bushings.
lower balljoints, strut assembly, and tie rod ends...

I noticed that it still wobbled at about 45mph today :-/

any ideas on what else would cause this?

ezone

Inner CV joint is bad, replace the axle.

Only outer joints make the clackitaclackitaclackita noise on turns.

sloth

the boot did look a bit stretched when we looked at it

it does make a clackit noise on turns. usually turning into my driveway.

I thought that it would have been related to the spring or strut...



it's not a safety issue to hold off until getting this replaced is it?

ezone

Outer joints make the noise (when they first start going bad) when you turn the steering wheel to full lock and accelerate, like going around a corner. They pop under a load. Try it in a parking lot, go in a tight circle and accelerate/decelerate, see how that affects the noise. Note the noise when you do this, struts sound a bit different and aren't really affected by the accel and decel too much, at least not the same way the CVs are.
Usually the rubber CV boot has been torn open at some point in its life.....grease gets thrown all over the knuckle and caliper.
After they have been doing it for a while, losing grease, miles, and dirt, they can get bad enough to go poppitapoppitapoppita while driving straight down the road.

Inner CV joints rarely, if ever, make noise. They tend to develop wear (dents) in the cup, and the rollers hang up in the dents, causing the engine and trans to be pushed side to side rapidly, until the rollers move out of the wear spots (let off the gas pedal). Figuring out which side is the cause is darn tough without just replacing one axle or the other.

Aftermarket rebuilt axles can be a crapshoot. I have heard them be noisy right out of the box. But they are cheap and can be changed out pretty easy.

The bad lower arm bushing can clunk on bumps when it hits the subframe, and whenever road forces cause it to move up and down.

Is a bad CV dangerous? Ummmm....Not until it explodes, leaves 3/4 inch steel ***** all over the road, and strands you. It will usually happen when you try to take off from a stop. Biggest danger I see is pi**ing off the gang-banger behind you when it happens. LOL

sloth

Thanks for the info.

When you say inner CV joint. are you refering to inside the transmission?

ezone

No. Each axle (halfshaft) has an outboard CV joint, and an inboard CV joint. Both are external of the transmission, only the splined stub of each inner joints goes inside the trans.


Some cars use an intermediate shaft too. It would be bolted to the engine block, and it allows the use of equal length halfshafts. Instead of unequal length halfshafts.

sloth

is there a way to test the inner cv joint without swapping it out?

also how do you replace the cv axle?

I would think you should be able to take the two control arm bushing bolts out. Break the spindle nut and slide it off right?

Does the inner cv just slide out?

ezone

Not easily, and sometimes not without a teardown. Replacement is much easier.

Get a service manual.
Depends on the design. Each car is different.

I don't touch any bushings.
I pop the ball joint from the knuckle and pull the knuckle outward and rearward, and tie it with a ratchet strap to the arm of the hoist. That gives me use of both hands and gives enough room for me to get the axle out of the car.
The inner joint is secured by a snap ring inside the trans. The joint has to be pried out of the trans, the prying action releases the snap ring.


Remember: My guess is just a guess, based only on your description of the problem. I can't see or drive the car.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Start with basics. Check and make sure your tire wheel weights didnt come off. Make sure your rotors are not warped. Check your cv boots if they are ripped replace the whole axle it is bad, so dont bother trying to rebuild it it will not be cost or time efficient.

I personally never seen or heard lca bushings produce a wobble. They produce a noise from foward to reverse and vise versa similar to really bad engine mounts.

In any case you needed to change your bushings either if it was the problem or not, so its not really a loss for you.

sloth

I had the rotor and brake pads replaced A few months ago, and I had the tires balanced.


the bushings definately helped. I don't get the wobble at 30-35 like I used to which was the loudest. The wobble only happens at around 40-45mph now.

sometimes I can feel in the steering wheel at 30mph like it wants to wobble but doesn't :-/

I am thinking its the CV joint.. if it isn't that then maybe a wheel bearing issue


The thing is that the tire shop guy said that it wasn't the CV joint because he couldn't hear/feel the wobble

I did notice that the tie rod end we replaced isn't straight up and down like it was when we replaced it. it is more at an angle, leaning forward.

ezone

Are the tires ROUND? An egg shaped tire or a tire with a lump in the tread may only wobble at certain speeds. Even if it is perfectly balanced. A bent rim can act the same way.




A loose wheel bearing can be felt by shaking the wheel.
A bad wheel bearing would sound like an airplane flying with you.


Who drove the car?
YOU have to take the mechanic for a ride. DEMONSTRATE TO HIM what problem you are after. SHOW him what you mean.
You can talk all day and never get anywhere.


The tie rod end will pivot. Not a problem.

ezone

How about a bad caliper causing the brake to drag? Just a thought.


Today I replaced an axle in a '10 Odyssey for a wobble at 45-60mph. Steady side-to-side vibration as long as you are on the gas or steady speed. As soon as you let off the gas, the wobble went away. Bad inner CV joint. Absolutely no outwardly visible clues as to which one might be the cause, no leaks or anything. I picked the right side and it just happened to be correct.

Have someone drive next to you in another car while your wobble is happening, see if there is a tire shaking when it happens.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

ezone- I have seen this before as well. However I didnt actually do any of the work.

First time axle came out and it looked fine couldnt tell anything was wrong(Mechanic did it on freinds car)

I replaced one on a friends car and when I removed the ball joint the whole axle and U joints fell apart all over the floor (Pretty aparent it was bad)

I am just curious, once the axle is removed did you notice anything different about the problematic axle? I have seen this twice already and its not always easy to pin point axles.

ezone

I've seen it dozens of times over the years. I KNOW what it is, it's just hard to tell which side causes it.
This one was purely a SWAG and I hit it right. Yay me.

Without any signs of leakage or obvious wobble, it really is damn tough to tell which one is at fault, if not impossible.
With the car in the air, the wheels hanging, the CVs are not in their normal position so the problem doesn't happen on the hoist.
Your only hope is that someone driving beside you can see a wheel wobbling as the axle has to push against the hub to make the powertrain shake side to side. Good freekin luck with that.
Or attach an accelerometer to each knuckle and measure the movement.....price those out, see if the dealer shop will buy that as a special tool. I don't see that happening.

Couldn't feel any spot that was rough or any hang up. (But really, I can't put the same torque that the engine has on it using just my hands.)

It was a warranty job so I can't take it apart, and I don't really care to take it apart anyway....I already know what the wear would look like if it was visible. I'm just glad I guessed right on the first try.