JohnyBlaze

So I've been having conversations with various tuners about doing a custom turbo setup on the D17a2.

For the most part, I've been hearing the same song as Jotech's setup (Garret T3 snail, extra injector + standalone FMU, Missing Link Valve, etc.).

Then there's another guys the recommends a Mitsu 16g snail + returning fuel system conversion + standalone ECU.

Any pros/cons to doing using a returning fuel system over the Jotech solution (extra injector)? What standalone ECUs are available for our (turbo) application?

Also, has anyone else considered the Mitsu 16g turbocharger? It is oil and water cooled (so no need for cool-down periods), and it does spool very well. Apparently we would get full boost at around 3000rpm with our 1.7L motors. It is internally gated.

Any comments/advice?

Cheers,

--J.

Mystic3030

My local speed shop uses exclusively the mitsu turbos, they swear by them, say they are the best. I trust them...completely...they have never BSed me, and always have great prices. I was quoted $3,229 to do a complete turbo setup, with an in cabin turbo timer and boost controll. They say they've ran two 2002 civic coupes and one 2001 sedan with the mitsu setup at 10 lbs of boost...still going strong and clean with no damage after 6 months. 220 WHP on the dyno.

As soon as I have the cash, and I get done with my system, i'm definately doing it. They also warranty their work for 2 years.

Diemos

Thats really really really impressive. 2 year warranty? They back up 10 lbs of boost for 2 years? also, great price

stackz

I've heard of some myth around some of the higher end boost controller and such that they have an RPM memory recall feature on them....for a 2 year warranty on a turbo setup at 10 psi...that'd be one way for them to get you and void the warranty and stick you with any engine damage you do for over-revving the thing.........I don't know if this applies to you but just food for thought....

-al

example...just watch days of thunder again (even though the memory recall is on a tach in that movie) where he knows ole' tommy boy went to 10 grand before the motor went.... just kinda something to look out for...

doubledeuce2k2

iTrader: (20)

if i had the cash i'd be all over that...

turbo like that for under 4g's is oh so fine!

2001civ

If at all possible it's best to go with the return because you can have all the fuel you will need where as returnless sends the exact amount to the injectors. You can stick with the returnless and do the extra injector but that will only be good up to a certain amount of boost. Or you can wait for a standalone fuel system to come out for our cars (there isn't one yet) and just upgrade your injectors and a better fuel pump to put more pressure through your fuel system and that will work too but not at high boost, but that would be pretty high boost before that tops out. The return system will give you all the fuel you will need at anytime you need it and never have to worry about if it's getting enough fuel. but you will have to upgrade the injectors still and the fuel pump and fuel rail for that aswell. all will need dyno tuning and of course a FMU. The jotech way is a good fix for low boost but there is only so much one extra injector can do.

As for turbo's it just depends on when you want your turbo to start spooling. and how much power you want out of it and if the engine will handle it. for example I don't think our d17s would even spool a T66 turbo BUT if it did you would get big gains. if you want your turbo to spool at 3000 rpms it will be on all the time when you go somewhere and kill your engine really fast. As for name brands. there are lots, garret and turbontics are both really good brands.

JohnyBlaze

This is all fine and dandy... good to see that mine isn't the only odd-ball shop to recommend a Mitsu 16g over the Garret T3.

Mystic3030, do you have any other details about your future setup? What fuel system alterations will you be doing, electronics, etc.? Also, any reason why your shop would want to use a turbo timer when, in theory, you could keep the Mitsu 16g cool enough with oil and water?

Does anyone have any input on the technical front (unrelated to pricing)? I.e., Pro/Cons of 16g vs. T3, fuel system conversion vs. additional injectors, advice, etc.

Grey must have some input for this topic!!

Thnx,

--J.

2001civ

I just wanted to add that to do it right you will probably end up spending as much on upgrading the internals as the turbo set up. My two cents on it would be if you have to ask you probably aren't ready to take on that project, and paying someone to do it will cost you an arm and a leg.

JohnyBlaze

People love to give the "if you have to ask, you aren't ready to do it" bit!! Haha. Thnx for the tip ;-)

You're absolutely correct, I'm not even close to knowing enough to take on a project like a custom turbo on my own. I do intend on paying someone to do it, and I do realize that it will cost me much more that way than doing it myself -- that is the cost of having another profession and not having enough time/resources to learn enough to do it on my own.

I've done plenty of leg work to find out what my options are (in terms of paying a shop to do it, how much it'll cost, and what parts they will use). Now I'm just looking for input from you guys as I'm sure many of you have done similar legwork, and many of you ARE able to even do it yourself. I want to get more opinions/advice so that I won't be getting ripped off. It doesn't mean that I'm not "ready". Besides, as my young cousin (who asks WAY too many questions) once said, "If I don't ask, how am I supposed to learn?"

Anyways, thnx for the feedback gentlemen... the more the better. I'll take it all in stride.

Cheers,

--J.

Grey

iTrader: (61)

For the price, the Mitsu turbo's are very good. They're better than T25's, T28's, and most T3's. However, the new GT series of turbo's from Garrett kills the Mitsu's. At least the old ones. Not sure what new Mitsu turbo's are available. Anyway, the new GT's are water and oil cooled and have fewer moving parts and are made with many many options. You just have to find a good distributor. You can get one for as low as $600. Internal wastegate, but water and oil cooled. Lighter and fewer moving parts than the Mitsu's too. The turbo beetles have this turbo. If you can find one in a junkyard, then snag it.

I will be looking for a turbo with VNT (Variable Nozzle Technology), but if I can't find it then I'll probably go with one of the GT turbo's and I'll modify it a bit.

KeNsHiN

iTrader: (1)

i was going to say that too!!

HondaGuru

why? simple. because the stock mitsu unit sucks ***** for higher PSI applications. If you plan on running ANYTHING over 1 bar, its already time to upgrade. why bothen when you can do it right from the start for a bit more?

orso

iTrader: (1)

ok i talked to the guys at turbo-performance and they told me that our fuel systems could hold lets say 8 psi. they also said that they make a return system to. just upgrade the injectors and i that would cover it. maybe ya'll are looking to boost higher. but please correct me if i am wrong. $4000 for everything

2001civ

How much are they selling just he return fuel system for?

Oh and what size injectors? thanx

CivicPunker17

i have a return fuel system on my car and the turbo will be done tomorrow. it was defiently worth the conversion first of all, my fuel system is all set to handle higher boost becuase i have a b&m fuel pump installed so it will handle enough fuel. the other parts used were aem fuel filter, custom fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator (im pretty sure they wound up using b&m), and a vortech fmu to control fuel for the turbo. i drove it the other day without it being tuned or the missing link valve installed yet and i could already tell it was defiently worth every penny to me. o yeah i used a custom sized garrett ball bearing t3, they made it custom for the d17 so theyre going to produce one specifically for our cars. it spooled up at right around 2500rpm and that was without tuning everything. i only had it at half throttle too.

Mystic3030

I'm not sure what exact parts they are using, I don't know too much about turbo systems, but he mentioned using B&M fuel components I beleive, he did say it's a custom made return system that they use, it gets made somewhere around here(NH). He said the last coupe he did, the guy wanted a turbo timer, and thats what they charged him for everything. As I said, I know next to nothing about turbos, so I just went in there and asked for a price for a complete system with everything I need to do a turbo safely, and with maximum gains on a stock engine. And as for the warranty, it's on all the turbo parts and work that they do, it doesnt cover damage to the engine that may result from setting your boost at say, 14 PSI. It only covers a defect or a problem caused by something they did.

-Mystic