speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

So I've been thinkin'. Don't worry. I'm lying down and have a cool washcloth on my head so I don't overheat. It's now 0500 in the morning, I've been up since 0430, because the damn sun comes up at 0400 now. Did I mention it sets at 10pm? I love England, I just don't get much sleep in the summer. I digress.

Anyways, I bought a D17 fuel rail and injector plate. I only needed the fuel rail. But, I've been collecting bits and bobs for the turbo install as most of you know, and one of those bits is a y8 IM.



We know that the mani swap can be done, but not everything lines up on Y8 IM to the D17 head. How difficult would it be to simply cut the Y8 flange off the mani and weld the D17 injector plate on to it? That seems to make the most sense right?

I mean, look at this:



And this:



Yes I know the plate is facing the wrong way, but look at the ports. They line up perfectly. What doesn't line up so perfectly are two of the stud holes and the coolant passage. You can see from this pic where I've circled in yellow, how much the two stud holes need to be opened up to fit on the D17 head. The coolant one is the only one I'm concerned about for the mani swap keeping the existing Y8 flange. It lines up with EGR passage on the D17 head. I don't think running coolant through there would be healthy. And also you don't have the EGR channels on the Y8 flange that are on the D17 one. They are there for a reason right?





Now my only concern with welding up the D17 injector plate to the Y8 mani is how close the injector holes (technical term) are to the ports. Illustrated here in this picture.



There would a weld bead running right there and I have no idea how much spatter there is with an aluminum MIG job. Since I would be paying someone to weld this for me, initially it's their problem. But if they **** it up, it becomes my problem because then I have to get another Y8 mani and D17 injector plate. It would probably make sense to weld up a brace as well to support the addition of the flange.

So give me your thoughts folks. With the D17 injector plate welded up to the Y8 mani you have these bennies:

1. Direct bolt-up to the head
2. Keep the same rail and injectors
3. EGR channel is still in place
4. Sick custom setup

And disadvantages:

1. Welder screws it up and have to find new parts
2. Cost
3. I think that's it.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Anyone?

EM2Brande

iTrader: (1)

Let me know the outcome I am thinking of doing this

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Hmm I was thinking your answer was going to be in this thread (https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...fuel-line.html) but it doesnt seem to be there. Good luck.

BTW, is there any point in using a Y8 intake manifold on an NA setup... why do I only see people with turbo setups using it- fuel line upgrade or something?

Buds302

iTrader: (2)

i want to know what to do about the EGR channel...cause i have a Y8 mani too and a D17 plate. i have the D17plate to makemy own custom mani later and the Y8 to put on here shortly. should i weld the coolant passage shut? or what?

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

I would weld the coolant passage shut, hopefully you won't run into issues with not having the EGR channel though. I don't know enough about how EGR works and its purpose to accurately guess what not having the full channel will do.

Our stock plastic intake mani is sketchy above 10 psi and has been known to crack due to the pressure. That's why folks swap them out on their high boost setups. The only real reason to do the swap on an NA setup (and I mean I serious NA setup) is to get access to the Y8 aftermarket fuel options. Everyone and their damn brother makes a fuel rail and larger flowing injectors to fit a Y8 setup. But for basic bolt-ons (I/H/E) swapping to the Y8 mani won't do much of anything for you. You'd need to get into head work, raising the compression and getting into the ECU (EMS or Kpro) to tune for power into a higher RPM range, which would warrant a fuel system upgrade.

Buds I don't know the answer to your FPR question on mani DIY page. I would guess to just take the stock FPR out of the equation and just have your setup like:

gas tank-------aftermarket pump-----aftermarket FPR----Fuel rail----return line-------gas tank

But I haven't popped my pump assembly out to see exactly what needs to be rerouted with the stock FPR gone.

Buds302

iTrader: (2)

the FPRhas to come after the fuel rail or else youll have no presure. think about it....itll just be like a open ended hose.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Ach so. Well, I'm gonna have to do some research then, because I don't know the answer.

familycar

iTrader: (4)

if your going with a n/a set up why not do the same thing with a gsr manifold?? it has a secondary runner controlled by a butterfly(which is controlled by vaccum) to help with lower rpm power. catalyst aka turboengineer and now something different did this and said the gains were great. i even have a gsr mani ill sell you for cheap.......

soldierboi

just wait for the dezod IM to come out

Buds302

iTrader: (2)

you cant not on a D17.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

All right. Taking the mani and injector plate to a shop tomorrow and we'll see what he can do. I'll update what I find out. There's a shop right next to where I'm getting my windshield replaced so I'll have some free time to BS with the guy.

familycar

iTrader: (4)

what r u trying to say /\/\

you cant not what on the d17. its been done using a gsr mani with d17 injector plate, like i said search through some of turboengineers threads and you will find what i am talking about.

for forced induction the y8 mani is better but for n/a the gsr mani shold provide better gains

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

I think what he's saying is the secondary butterflies wont work. I dont know one way or another that they do or dont work.

Anyways, this shouldnt be rocket science. Anyone who can tig weld aluminum ought to be able to weld that base plate to the manifold as long as the runners line up, which they seem to do. If not, then all you'd need to do is weld a small spacer tube over each port on the rail, then weld the manifold to it, then portmatch it all out. Its no different than building ITBs, except its not for ITBs.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Well, my fab skills are minimal and only having a 40 amp line out to the garage precludes me from buying a decent welder over here and learning how to weld (its a rental so I can't run a new line). The ports line up perfectly (easier to see in person than pics) I was just worried at how close the injector ports were to the runners from a spatter standpoint. I'll find out tomorrow.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

well, you gotta TIG it, TIG doesnt splatter.

familycar

iTrader: (4)

well in all fairness its a vaccum controlled butterfly, so as long as you have a vaccum line connected correctly the vaccum secondary shouldnt be a problem.

i looked into this quite some time ago that is the reason i purchased the manifold. then i bought a dc and swapped in a b20 and lost interest in the d17, basically i realized how much cheaper it was for me to make power with the teg instead

Green 91

1. hes not going NA
2. they want to keep the EGR, so it doesn't throw a Engine light for it.

Speedfoos;
like i said on d-series, ill see what i can do on my bros in a couple weeks and let you know.

and GSR manifolds aren't the greatest, why do you think most upgrade to Skunk2 or Blox.
it be easier to either custom make runners/plenum off the injector plate(btw im looking for extras), then to mount the oddball(oddball for B series also, GRS intake manifold doesn't have same mounts as other B's) GSR manifold.

ive been looking into it, and so far, i dont see why i would have a problem making runners, and a plenum off the injector plate, and mounting a regular style TB on the side and not the top, that might mean charge pipe/intake tube would need modified, but if it allows for better flow and reliability, your better off.

and yes the secondary butterflies are controlled by a actuator, that actuator is controlled by the GSR ECU. unless you zip tie the actuator to stay open.