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I think this is one of the most packed full of question orig posts that are out there, this thread should be alive for a while... Please only post from experience and not from assumtions, thanks!!

THE PLANS:
As the title states, I got an LX and I'm planning on swaping to the EX head and upgrading the cam to a stage1, or possibly even stage2 with the valve springs and retainers from dezod.

Stage 1:
Stage one would require the head, head gasket, crower stage 1 cam, a bunch of tools, and a VAFC2. Which I might as well mention doesnt tune the engine and only sets the point vtec kicks in- but do ya really have a whole lot that needs/ is worth tuning in stage 1?

I've read some people saying their running lean at higher RPM's (I believe this was stage 1 peeps saying this). So that means no power at higher RPM's. Comments/solutions?

Stage 2:
Stage two would require the head, headgasket, crower stage 2 cam, a bunch of tools, and a valve train upgrade from dezod (LINK: http://dezod.com/pd_crower_valve_train.cfm). From what I'm hearing, in stage 2, the idle is rough, almost too rough for the street, for which you need an EMS to tune it. (How ruff is it exactly- or has anyone had success in smooth ideling w/o EMS?) That brings us to....

EMS:
At the moment, I wasnt planning on droping a stack of money on an EMS because I thought they ran 1,000 or so. But I took a look and found dezod has the Greedy EMS for around 500-700 depending on the exact one you get (as for the differences between them- I'm not sure which one I'd need at this point for what I'm trying to do, and for down the road on what I might be hoping to do). I wouldnt be oposed to getting an EMS if it fit the bill. To be honest, I dunno- I'm kinda in the dark as far as EMS's go (stand alone [$$$$-?], piggy back [$$$-?], others?). My budget is flexible ONLY because I'll wait and save up for the right stuff, instead of buying a piece of **** off the bat just to get it hooked up; but at the same time I dont want to be paying for more then what I'll be using, or plan to use. Comments on solutions to the idle (aka EMS)? [BTW, I'm not planning on going turbo anytime soon- but hey, ya never know- it might happen in a year or so, or maybe never at all. ] That brings me to this...

Head swap to EX + Internals + possbile boost?
How would boost hold up on a headswapped LX engine, any better or worse off? Also, Dezod offers a different stage 2 cams for turbo. Whats this about? Could I not boost on stage 2 NA cams with out problems? I'm assuming at this point, there would be no chance in excaping an EMS right?

ALL EX Internal upgrade ppl:
How was Stage1? Stage2? Comments from people who have gone stage1 and stage2 would be awesome, please identify youselves as what you have gone with and speak on it all.

LX 2 EX + Internals ppl:
As for people who have done the headswap from an LX to an EX, along with interals... I'm REALLY interested in hearing from you guys!!!

I'm also looking for what kind of numbers I can expect from these upgrades.
Strict LX to EX headswap. Numbers meaning, Horsepower, Torque, and MPG's (i'm assuming I'll be loosing some MPG's but I'd really like to know exactly what I'm looking at). PLEASE only post numbers that can be backed up by DYNO. (I'm really sick of hearing, "you have a D17, so PROBABLY 2-3hp"!!)
Headswap + stage 1 / or stage 2
Headswap + stage 1 / or stage 2 and boost. (what psi u running) [not as interested in the turbo numbers as much as the others]


Also, let this thread stand for an info block on people currrently doing headswaps on 7th gens from DX/LX to EX along with internal upgrades.

 
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https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...ap-n-cams.html

BTW, have been here, it was pretty useless. Except for this quote:
...and then all the replys just stopped in that thread.

 
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that sounds like alot of work!!! just get an rsx lol

 
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i think it would help more if you stated where you power goals are. A stock 5speed ex dynos around 100whp to 110whp. So do you want 135whp 160whp? 200whp? 300whp?

Once you figured out your power goals then we can advise you better. Honestly a head swap isn't really worth it unless your doing the work yourself. You might be better off just buying a used EX engine for like $500 on ebay and just dropping it in.

I would recommend saving for a AEM EMS since it'll give you the option to go NA or Turbo and be able to give you your full potential. If you want some near 300whp, boost is the only way to achieve it.

You should figured what you want to do exactly, that way you won't have to lego build it and you'll save a lot of money in the long run.

NA = you should build the head first

Turbo = you should build the block first

 
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First off, I'd have to say I'll be very VERY happy with 200whp, lol. I'm looking for some significant gains to give the motor that kick that it really doesnt have. By kick, I mean extra power. Its not horrible completely stock, but...it could be way better of course, any gains would be great, something significant, 160 would be cool. I'm not holding myself to playing the numbers game at this point. I'll be able to get more of an idea of where I want to be with seeing what others have accomplished.

As for dropping a full ex motor into my car, good point. Let me check some costs. First off though, I'm pretty against that idea. For one, if I'm doing a motor swap, it'll be a k20, but I just dont have 5k+ for just a motor at the moment to drop into a project like that (would only want a k20a).
I'd also have to get the wire harness, ECU, and reflash the keys to get the car to start. Unless if I went with an EMS for sure and it could take care of it all with out having to go through that trouble.

When Xproductionz did his head swap, costs totaled $435 with the vtec controler, which to me, isnt so bad (200 head, 200 vafc2, 35 gasket)- which is cheaper then my exhaust setup (ex by the way- so no problems with headers and such). Now if I were to go with a complete ex motor... from ebay I'm seeing 500+350 in shipping (850), which to me- at this price its totaly not worth it.
Pluss I'm doing the work myself and a full engine swap is a little out of my tech skills at the moment- plus no cherry picker to get the engine in and out.
Plus going with the head swap, I have the added benifit of the compression on my side:

As for doing the work myself- of course. I have several buddies that are very auto minded, one who had been trained as a mechanic and worked at a local speed shop for quite some time until he decided to concentrate on his own cars instead of fixing up other peoples. For the mods I'm looking at, I'm confident we have the tools and the skills to get them done properly. (And tuning of course is better left to the true pros.)

 
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Remember the EX has a lil higher compression and the ECU is tuned a lil differently and n/a cams like compression. My buddy did the exact same thing you did; had an LX, did a vtec head swap and controlled vtec with a VAFC2 and ended up selling me his stage 2 camshaft bc he coudn't get it idle right at all. Plus he had a lightweight flywheel and stage 2 clutch which just made it annoying to drive around town. I know every car is different but just giving you his experience. He was upset at me bc we dropped those babies in my EX and the cam acted alot better. Thats why I advise you to stay stage 1. Don't worry about ppl saying its not worth it bc you will see improvement and feel it too. Here's a short clip so you know how a stage 2 cam behaves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTAkoCh491w

Lookup my youtube user name of strose09. All my vids are on there. I only started having idle problems with stalling out after I put the test pipe on but I'm fixing that now.

 
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subscribed

 
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Yea ronald, I actually have watched all thoes videos before, I think seeing that civic move that fast made me want to do this just that little bit more.

Still looking for some numbers that members have got, been doing a lot of searching and reading (man the search function sucks at searching through old posts). Looking for numbers of stage 1 and stage 2 cam...

 
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I just took a video on Saturday of me racing my buddy with I/h/e. He has a 2005 civic EX. Um I beat him by about 3-4 cars easy shutting down even before I hit 4th gear. I'm waiting on him to upload the vids. I never raced anyone with the cam heads up and it was fun seeing what they can actually do. So there is proof they make power. I've also beaten a stock integra LS from a roll so I"m def quicker than stock but still slow by any true racing standards. The car is at least as fast as a stock B16 and this is not BS.

 
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I put a stage 1 cam in my 05 EX along with i/h/e. I posted the dyno results a few months back. I made 123 hp at the wheels, about a 20+ hp pickup. Stage 1 worked for me cause I just wanted get a little more out of a cool daily driver. Sounds like you are looking for a lot more hp but this should give you an idea of what you could expect from a stage 1.

 
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good times!!!

 
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im in the process of doing an EX head swap on my turbo DX. Right now im sitting at about ~170hp @ 7.5psi. The shopping list is huge. I just got my vtec head a few days ago, decided that im going to pop new valve seals in it and send it to a machine shop to get it milled flat. Once I do that i'll be getting the crower valve train upgrade and stage 2 turbo cam. Once the head is all together i'll be picking up: head gasket, valve cover gasket, thermostat housing gasket, a vtec solenoid (head didnt come with it), timing belt and water pump and ARP headstuds. Once i have all of that, im ditching the Greddy emanage for the AEM EMS. I have no idea how much power i'll make, but this parts list is easily about 2 grand...

not only that, but right now my fuel system consists of nothing but rsx-s injectors and right around redline they are at about 100% duty, meaning if im going to be throwing more air into the cylinders im going to need bigger injectors, more fuel pressure or both. Return fuel conversions are pretty much a must...

 
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Yeah your taking it a step further then a basic headswap with all that. I'm still not convinced on what arp headstuds are going to do for ya, I'll have to look into that if I dont get any responce in here.. this thread is pretty dead, I gotta keep doing CPR and bumping it to the top. I know there are a good handful of ppl that have done this before. I think its time for a poll.

Ronald- i'm still not seeing that video up.

Anyways, anyone else got the numbers, or suggestions??

I really wanted to do more work, but its looking like plain old EX headswap with stage 1 cam and the apexi vafc2.... no1's coming through with any numbers really (thank you vicdawg!). I'll probably end up going to stage two in a few months after the headswap and stage 1. Probably give the motor some time to get used to vtec and the stage one cam before I shock it with a whole new head, vtec, stage 2 cam, and springs and retainers.

Still a chance to talk me into stage 2... anyone.

 
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well if you got the money you might as well do the headswap followed by getting the hondata... since you need to install a camgear with the hondata you can do that when you do the head swap

 
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No, I really dont have a hondata in my future with this car, I'm pretty sure of that, ha.

With the cam gear on the hondata, you HAVE to use that with it then hmm, no sage 2 cam with a hondata then?

 
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ur gettin it mixed up... cam and camgear are 2 different things... a camgear is the wheel that attaches to the cams... so you can run whatever stage cams u want with the hondata camgear... plus if you ever decide to swap in a k20 u can still use the same hondata kpro... or if you decide to sell it you can sell it to anybody who runs a k20

 
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Ha, man did I miss read that. Hondata is still $1k+. Wouldnt be able to afford it if I went with stage 2 at this point, and wouldnt make sence with just stage 1.


still looking for gains on stage 1 or stage 2...

 
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ok to break it down this is how it is.

its all going to depend on how much you want to spend.

if you go stg2 youll need the EMS to raise the revlimiter. this is the only way i would reccoment running a stage 2 cam. the reason for this is youll gain the same amount of power form the stage 1 as the stage 2 with out raising the rev limiter.

stage 2 youll need springs and retainers as well. and since your doing all that you may as well have th head ported. so we just took the price to about $3k after the headwork, EMS, and cams springs and retainers. then youll need dyno time and youll make about 140whp. so total to gain 40whp is about $3500. with stage one you wont need the springs and retainers or the EMS, so right there you just took off about $2000. i think about 150whp with an awesome tune and intake manifold swap is the best your going to get on a stage 2 and remember no one has hit that yet.
IMO its not worth it. if your going to drop $3500 just buy a turbo kit and make 220+whp

 
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or k swap, base model can be done for about the same price

 
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hey guys, reading this thread inspired me to get my very own EX head swap! I just got done buying the EX head and am currently winning the bid on a Vafc 2. I plan to only put stage 1 cams since I don't have a huge bank account to work on. Just wondering if anybody can link me to a site that will sell Stage 1 cams along with aftermarket cam gears. Thanks a lot guys and wish me good luck!

 
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^^ http://dezod.com/cat_7thgencivic.cfm
Where did you get your head at?

 
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hmm... so how much is all this gonna run ya TRIZ???

 
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How much? You dont wanna know... My wallet reminds me of a prostitute how its always open!!

 
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so you decided what you want to do then TRIZ? you sounded like you were unsure before...

 
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Found mine on EBAY It's a rebuilt ex head. I got it for 320. Only thing missing was the engine cover, so i'll just use mine. Hopefully everything works and nothing blows up on me

 
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wow you paid way too much!! not to mention with out a valve cover whoa!! and just a little FYI you cant swap ex and lx valve covers

 
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Well I didn't have a choice, nobody sells anything where I live Jax, FL. I thought that we could swap valve covers, how much is that going to run me? Ugh, at least I got my Vafc 2 for cheap.

 
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Havent comitted. Probably just stage 1 for now, that should give me enough fun for a few more months until I decide to do something a little more drastic. =)

 
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that sucks cause i sold one for $180 not too long ago to varner88 hit him up he may be able to help with your valve cover issue

 
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what were your dyno numbers with the cam?