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Hey guys

ok, firstoff let me say this: I've searched and searched for this already, but when you search for it, anything from soup to nuts shows up. So I thought I would ask here if anyone knows the answer to my question.

My question: Does anyone know all of the differences between the K20A (DC5R) and the K20A2 (RSX-S)? I don't mean the obvious (horsepower, torque, LSD, etc...just interested in the internals that are different)

I'm interested in purchasing a K20 of some sort (either the type-R or the type-S), but I'm not sure if the type-R is worth the extra money?

I'm going to get TODA racing cams and valvesprings, as well as their ECU. I'm also going to get an intake manifold, and get aftermarket pistons (not sure which ones yet).

Is the K20A worth the extra money? Or should I just stick with the K20A2?

I'm not sure if the VTEC is any different? ie: does the type-R have the VTC, whereas the type-S doesn't?

I'm lost. any help would be great.

thanks!

 
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i think the dc5r is worth the extra money.. its 240hp compared to 200 and its jdm..so everything is better..

 
Rep Power: 374

From all the research i have done it all really boils down to whether you have plans for a turbo setup or not. IF you want the higher redline N/A setup go with the K20A if your desire is for a turbo setup then go for the lower compression of the K20A2.
Here is a few things i came up with in my research for an answer to the same question your asking.
Type R DC5

Engine

Engine type K20A
Cylinders/valves Watercooled IL-4
Bore and Stroke (mm) 86.0 x 86.0
Piston displacement (cc) 1998
Compression ratio 11.5
Max power (NET) kW(PS)/rpm 162(220)/8000
Max torque (NET) N.m(kg.m)/rpm 206(21.0)/7000
Fuel system Honda PGM-F1
(Electronic Fuel Injection System)

Gear Ratio

1st Gear Ratio 3.266
2nd Gear Ratio 2.130
3rd Gear Ratio 1.517
4th Gear Ratio 1.212
5th Gear Ratio 0.972
6th Gear Ratio 0.780
Reverse Gear Ratio 3.583
Final gear ratio 4.764


Steering / Suspension / Braking System

Steering Rack & pinion
Suspension (F/R) McPherson / Double wishbone
Braking system (F/R) Oil pressure discs

Performance

0 - 100 km/h 6.0 secs (est)
Top Speed 145 mph (est)

Max mph 146
0 - 30mph 3,0
0 - 40mph 4,2
0 - 50mph 5,4
0 - 60mph 7,1
0 - 70mph 8,9
0 - 80mph 10,9
0 - 90mph 13,8
0 - 100mph 16,7
0 - 110mph 21,2
0 - 120mph 26,1
TED 4,8
1/4 Mile 15,4 sec / 96mph

Type S

2.0L DOHC 16-Valve Engine
i-VTEC (w/ VTC)
Alternator
12V, 95Amp
Aluminum Alloy L4

Bore & Stroke (mm)
86 X 86

Compression Ratio
11.0 : 1

Displacement (cc.)
1998

Emission System
Designed To Meet US EPA / Environment Canada Stringent 2004 Tier-2 Standards

Fuel System
Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI)

Full Electronic Direct Ignition System

Horsepower @ rpm (SAE Net)
200 @ 7400

Redline
7900 rpm

Torque (lbs.-ft)
142 @ 6000

Valvetrain
4 Valves; Chain Driven

Final Drive Ratio MT
4.389

This is just a little information i put together to help me decide. I want a turbo setup so im leaning towards the Type S swap

 
Rep Power: 315

I'm planning on going the NA route.

but, I'm planning on building it up, too. so I would get higher compression pistons, do a port & polish, get a better intake manifold, etc.

regardless of which engine I get. I'm just wondering if I would be "settling" for the type-S, or if its just not worth the extra money? (for the type-R)

 
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The engine you speak of is 220 hp, not 240 hp.

 
Rep Power: 315

the K20A from a civic Si will allow you to slap on a
jackson racing supercharger.

 
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VTC is part of VTEC. ANY engine with VTEC (including the lowly D series) has VTC.

VTEC= Variable Timing Electronic Lift Control
VTC= Variable Timing Control... thats the variable timing part... then the lift control is the other piece of VTEC.

I personally don't think it's worth the extra money for the K20A... don't forget if anything ever breaks on it... you need to get parts from Japan. The Availability of general maintainance parts would push me to get a K20A2, not to mention that you can build the A2 every bit as good as a K20A.


The K20A is from the Integra Type R. The Si is K20A3. There is a JRSC kit for the K20A2 from the Type S, but JR sucks ***** anyways.

 
Rep Power: 403

just get the type R, it is just better, anyways... when you want to turbocharge it, just upgrade the pistons, rods. i think the valves and springs are good enough, in a mag, i read, the top fuel turbo charged type R did need them changed and that car is pushing 500hp turbo charged o yea and it is stroked to 2.4l

 
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LSD!! Much nicer then not having it. Flywheels lighter in the K20A too so it'll rev faster and drop off quicker. Other then that which has been mentioned I hvae no clue.

 
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also keep in mind that the k20a needs much higher octane gas which is not available at any gas station (i think very few do) so this means your gonna end up spending lots of money on octane boosters in the long run...

the type-s is available here in the u.s. which should make it cheaper and easier to obtain and it also uses regular gas which will save you money in the long run...

i say if your gonna make your car a daily driver, go for the type-s... if your gonna go for a pure race NA setup, go for the type-r...

 
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Dam, I can't belive people FI these thing without changing the pistons. Man 11.0 and 11.5 that fricken high. What are they running stock on the psi?

 
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I agree with what CIVICHX01 said and what BoilerMaker01 said. They both mentioned VERY important facts that I'll definitely want to consider when I'm deciding which engine to get. FOr convenience sake, I'd definitely go with the k20a2 (RSX-S). I dun plan to spend so much extra $$ on gas and octane boosters, and importing replacement parts from Japan (super costly and inconvenient). Bottom line, k20a2 is the way to go, build it, turbo it...just as good, if not better than k20a.

 
Rep Power: 315

ok, that was a point I don't think I mentioned...

I was worried about the high octane gas I would need.

but, if I get a type-S, and do the following (see below), wouldn't that cause me to need high octane gas anyways?

Mods in the future for the type-S:
1) pistons & rings
2) rods
3) port & polish
4) cams
5) cam gears
6) msd ingition
7) exhaust/intake manifolds
8) intake
9) head gasket
10) con rods
11) valvesprings
(note: the order is retarded because that's the way I think )

...and I can't think of the other internal stuff off the top of my head...but...you get the picture. This will be a daily driver, btw.

anyone know about the octane situation? I

isn't the higher compression the reason for the octane increase? with higher compression pistons, won't that require the use of a higher octane gas to perform at near 100% efficiency?

any help on these questions would be great!

although, I must say...I'm leaning towards the type-S, and then getting a hold of the LSD from the DC5R. hrm....

 
Rep Power: 374

There is a guy on ephatch.com(he goes by Port) and he has the K20A(RSX type R) motor swapped in him SI. And he has no problem running on 93 octane gas. He does put race fuel it for the track.

 
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you CAN run on the low octane...but you're not running anywhere near 100% efficiency.

that's the problem

hrm...I'll see if I can talk to that guy. thanks Jodster!

 
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You need a whole type r front clip in order for it to work

 
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that's not a problem.

money...is an issue, but not a huge one. I'm not going to rush into it like a fool. This will be the ONE thing I actually do right -- the first time hehehe

 
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wait...I just read that the way japan rates octane is different than north america?

is their 101 octane our 93 octane???

hrm...

 
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The R motor isnt worth it. Toda Cams and valve springs with the upgraded ECU wont do much of anything on an R motor. It already has the agressive cams on it. I dont know what emissions is like where you are at either, but the R motor wont pass, the S will. For what you get, i dont think that its worth the extra 2 grand, and not have it legal. People say that they have seen R motors with 500hp and such, and i ve said time and time again, how are you gonna get that to the ground? People think that the more HP the faster that you will go, thats true up to a point. It eventually gets to a point to where you can even hook. Get the S motor with Hondata ECU, CAI, Race Header, and Exhaust and run a mid 13 all day.

 
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how about a type r motor with intake and exhaust and run low 13s all day

 
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It actually converts to about 94.5 octane here, and someone with the type R engine said running 93, which is available here, runs fine with no knocking.

 
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so is it even remotely possible to turbo a type-s? if so how costly?

 
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turbo a type S engine? are you serious...man i wish someone would make a turbo for a type S engine...

if there would be a turbo type S the turbo kit would probly cost like 3,000, it should come out soon...

















GReddy

HKS

cybernationmotorsports

 
Rep Power: 315

but there's no sense in turbo-ing the type-s.

the premium rsx engine has lower compression, and would be a better candidate to do it!

you can make a custom turbo for relatively cheap if you know what you're doing. then again, this is speaking from a backyard-do-it-yourself-homemade type thing

but good point about the type-R not making much more HP with the cams and such.

however, toda specifically says its also for the type-R, and says it will also gain HP?

I think I'm going to stick with the Type-S. The 20hp at the crank can be easily found through other means for cheaper than the difference in price. plus, the whole emmissions thing kinda scares me

then again, up here in ontario, you only have to spend a maximum of $200 every two years to try and get it to pass emissions. if I'm running the type-R, I'm not worried about dishing out an extra $100/year that's chicken feed!!!
(compared to the price of the whole swap)

cool, thanks for the opinions guys! I think I've made up my mind, and I'm going to go with the type-S, and then try to macguyver in the LSD!

thanks!

 
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You don't need to maguyver anything... Quaife and Spoon are already in the works... if they haven't already come out.

 
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all in all the type R engine is better made... than the S, and is made to take a harder beating...

and just by saying "i swaped a type R" is going to get alot more respect than a type S

remember, its all about respect...

 
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to some of you, respect is better than other things

 
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Respect? Pfah! If i swapped, it'd be for MY enjoyment. I wouldn't tell anyone i had a type-s/r in there until I dusted them.

 
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I know someone that has the K20a in their SI. He runs 93 octane. He has a SRI and ehaust (I believe). He's running low 14's with 15" or 16" rims. He has no detanation problems with running 93 at the pump. You can mix a little 101 octane to increase the octane. He runs it down at the No Problem Raceway in LA. Im thinking of going with the K20a2 myself. Its a U.S. engine. I dont have to go to a specialist for engine work. Emisions is not a problem for me. May go with some type-r internals or run a turbo. Not sure just yet.

P.S. The K20a3 is a SI engine as well as the RSX base model engine.

 
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the Type-S motor has 3 rocker arms on the intake valves and exhaust valves, also unlike the Si K20 motor VTEC and VTC affects the exhaust valves, not just the intake valves causing more power to be made there. Which is some crazy way to add the 40hp plus some other gearing and products changes

But in the latest Import Tuner they did a TODA cam swap on a K20A2 motor and it gained 26whp...check it out

import tuner