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the S and R engines have extra oil squirters or something...

 
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hrm, what month is the import tuner? it's not on their website yet

is it still on the newstands?

I wouldn't be going for the base RSX (or the Si) motor...I'd be going type-s or type-r. but due to everyone's comments, I'm leaning towards type-s.

I really appreciate all this help! I just read that the toda racing header ALONE gives the type-s 13hp to the wheels. NUTS.

considering the dc sports header for the type-s only adds about 3!!!

this is what I mean: I'm going to research this, take my time, and do everything right (the first time). I've screwed a few projects by rushing into it too fast....NOT THIS TIME!

hehehe

being a spazz...NO MORE! hehehe

 
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Something else to think about.
The Type R flywheel and LSD are good, but not great. You would probably be more happy switching them out with an aftermarket set. Toda flywheel, and a Quaife LSD would be the way to go...thats what im doing atleast with my swap. So why spend the extra money on something that you are just going to swap out anyways? Unless you just wanna stay with the stock stuff.
The only worth while thing that you get on the R motor thats different from the S is the gearing, which you can buy the TypeR Final Drive for the S motor anyways. Everything else you would be better of aftermarket. Cams, LSD, flywheel, ECU,...
Oh and HondaLuver i would love to see a civic with an R motor run low 13's on CAI and exhaust all day. The HondaWerx car runs high 13's low 14's with intake, exhaust. Even if it was fast in the 1/4, the S motor would walk all over it on the highway. Its geared so high, that its top end isnt anything magical like its low end. The S with the more broad gearing would eat it right up.

 
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ok, i do have a question for tekgnosis why would you honestly even consider getting the k20a if you're just going to rebuild everything? doesn't make much sense to me. as far as the tode kit.....my lord, for the price, get the hondata k20a flash with the k20a cams.....i have the toda kit.......jesus it's nothing special.....had it for a month or so now, and i honestly am thinking of saying screw it, and going the k20a route...keep the s gearing.....k20a gearing isn't worth it as far as i'm concerned... put it this way...............k20a without a IM, Cams, pistons, ecu.......you have an S. cams and ecu are where it's at, then add an intake, and race header of some sort.......your at around 210 whp.....enough to keep it reliable, easy to manage, no tuning.....where's the problem with that in a daily driver?

vtc on the k20 is ecu controlled now. god i wish i had a better memory, but it's something like -20 degrees to +50 degrees adjustment. this way the engine doesn't lose power like the b series would at low rpms of cause of the adjustment's made to the timing. basically, the k series is always in it's best power range due to the ecu.

 
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Look at the Jackson Racing Header, it along with CIA and Exhaust (DC catback) added 29 hp
The new AEM V2 CIA has been added around 18 hp alone. WOW
K20 is an untaped potential

 
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Um may I add something, isn't the type r motor transmission mount on the otherside compared to the type s which is USDM and btw is the JDM right side drive? will it be harder to install it? I can get k20a mint condition for under 2 grand like 1,7 hundred or so.... I am right about the transmission mounted on the opposite side?

 
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nope...you are wrong. It is mounted on the same side as the S

 
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Yah, every pic I have seen of the K20A engine and tranny, it looks like the K20A2

 
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ya thanks for the clarification, looks like the jdm made something easy again, I am not an expert considering the k series engine is new

 
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1.7 thousand for a type r did u hear me?

 
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How about never?

A stock DC5R doesn't even hit 13s. It hits low 14s. A few bolt ons bring it to high 13s.

 
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I seriously doubt that.

Have you ever calculated the gear ratios for the K20A-R? It can potentially go up to 165MPH stock. Yes, I can prove that to you if you'd like. Just find the gear ratios calculator and I'll give you the #s from that tranny.

 
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The valve cover is red on the K20A and the spark plug cover says DOHC i-VTEC without the "2.0L" like on the Acuras. Personally, I like the silver valve cover better. It looks smoother.

The intake manifold dimensions are probably slightly different. The K24 block from the TSX/Accord has a slightly larger manifold that has bolted up to a K20A3.

Have you ever considered doing the K24A1 swap from the Accord/TSX? That engine has something neither the K20A will have, and that is <b>TORQUE</b> from a larger displacement.

Although it's a personal preference between a torque monster with a narrow powerband, and a torqueless wonder with a broad powerband, what's wrong with the K24? How could one say no to torque? Since you're going N/A you could possibly make a sick hybrid using some of the engine parts from a K20A2/3/R motor.

 
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SlammedBlueEM2: good point!

I think I'll stick with the entire S conversion for now, and then see what options the K24 brings for a hybrid.

 
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whitevic: so you have the K20A2 with the toda cams?

I think I would rather get the toda cams with an ECU, rather than the type-R cams and the hondata ECU.

The hondata ECU is a very nice choice, but I think I'd like the toda cams. I was thinking of getting the mugen computer, that way I could hookup the sick LCD that they had in the civic Si concept car.

why would I buy a type-R engine and then strip it to peices? this is EXACTLY why I started this thread. I was asking if it was worth the extra money. and seeing as I've gotten so many informative responses...I won't be getting the type-R.

Thank you for your input, I apprecaite the info on the gearing. That's also very helpful.

as for the "daily driver" aspect...I still want to compete in autocross, and be somewhat competitive

the daily drive aspect is great...but i will also be doing some cone racing.

anywho, thanks for all the info guys...it's very helpful!

as for the ECU: would you guys recommend hondata over everyone else?

wait, are there any other options besides mugen and hondata?

 
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here is my 2 cents... I would go for the type r motor because its less common. also you can do the type-r axles and get the brembo's . do a 5 lug conversion by using the rear type-r axles. if you are planning on building the motor anyways the lsd will be coming in handy. you could run 12's easily with that motor toda cams, ecu, cai, exhaust, toda header. it would be the way to go.

however, the type s motor is easier to come by and cheaper...and don't get me wrong your car would still fly. i've seen a type-s run 13.8 all day with only cai and hondata ecu. with the cams and other internals built you could be low 13's high 12's. now if you plan on the jr supercharger, which someone mentioned earlier, get the type-s and run the race supercharger that will bring you to about 285 hp. in our cars, thats flying. any which way you decide to go it will be fun, but remember the type-r = more show points, plus if you get the front clip, (which i would recommend) you will get the small blue japenese badges that add 30 whp! j/k

 
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ohh yeah and the hondata is the way to go.

 
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rofl! amen! hehehehe

well, I see what you're saying about show points, and the type-R will definately gimme more show points. but, I think if I were to go to shows (which I'm not really interested in), I could just slam on the type-R valve cover and pretend it's the type-R hehehehe

as for the 5-lug conversion...I already did the Si rear end conversion, giving me rear disc brakes on my sedan I'd hate to have to change them out again...it took an entire afternoon, and I'm a lazy mother hehehehe

front clip: that's a good idea. I think I'll opt to get a front clip, no matter which engine I get. You pretty much need almost everything anyways. hrm.

cool! thanks for the input! this is making the money saving process go by a lot faster and easier hehehe

thanks guys!

 
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If you read the question earlier
He asked about the tranny of the K20A and if it was on the other side (Right driver side)
BUT no just like the TypeS K20A2
He wasn't talking about appearance and neither was I.
Who cares if the valve cover is red and the labeling is different. It's what is inside that counts.

 
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the K24 engine swap is pretty awesome, i never even thought about that. It does have more power than the K20 engines because the large displacement and that the Accord and TSX are heavier cars but i dont know about that many aftermarket parts for them yet. And you'd also have to do a six-speed tranny swap as if you went with the type-s engine.

In my opinion I'd try the Type-r swap, unless you're gonna gut the internals and swap it all out id just get the K20 Si motor. But its up to you man, go with what you want to

 
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but with the Si motor, the vtec doesn't work on the exhaust or intake (one of them)...it's only half of what the type-s/r is I think.

seeing as gutting the type-r would pretty much defeat the purpose of getting a type-r...i'm just gonna get the type-s, stick on an LSD in the future, and then replace the final drive (is it the final drive?) in the tranny to make it somewhat closer to the type-r.

i know that R&J racing (richmond B.C., canada) has type-R parts, and their prices are pretty good.

plus, they're in canada, i'm in canada...so I won't get screwed by duty

man, I HATE duty.

and i also HATE that stupid "brokerage" fee that UPS charges to carry stuff across the border. it's bullsh*t!!!

ack.

 
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sounds like you've decided to go type-s. or maybe k24. one of my buddies did a k24 swap in his rsx, (crv) and he loves it. he had a base rsx. you might want to consider bolting a type-r tranny to the type-s motor right from the start because if you are going to be building the type-s, the stock clutch won't last anyways and you might as well put a lsd in while you have the tranny apart...so witht hat in mind it would just be smarter to start off with the type-r tranny....which if you are going to do that, you might as well do a k20 type -r because the front clip of a dc5 integra will cost you about the same as a type-s motor and type-r tranny separately. just some more advice, but hey its your car right? whatever you finally do, i want to see it when its done!

 
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oh and about duty...how about you send me the money for it and ill put it all in my 2k1. and then ill drive it across and we can put it your car when i get there???

 
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SI motor is only intake-side VTEC

 
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I know. I don't care, I wanted to point it out anyway just for kicks.

And if you read my other posts, I think you would already have figured out that the other points I mentioned was "it's what is inside that counts."

Anyways...

The K24 from the TSX comes with a 6-speed tranny but you could get the one from the Type S. The gearing in the TSX appears to be just find for what the engine can do. I wouldn't be surprised if the TSX motor gets parts for it's engine (keep in mind, it's been out since April this year) but despite that, making a hybrid out of it would simply own. Hasport hasn't finished making the motor mounts for it to fit in our cars but they are on it as we speak.

I recall there was someone on Honda-tech who's Si has the bottom end of the K24 but quite a few people have already tampered with that block.

 
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when you asked about the ecu's...toda doesn't give you another ecu...they just reflash it with hondata...so basically you're still going thru hondata either way you go...

 
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I am going with a K20A... see ya at the track in the spring

 
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I guess you dont know about the JDM ECU top speed cut off then. All the people that ive talked with that have the R motor cant go above 110mph. I believe even DC5@EM2 was having problems on the DYNO cause his car cant go over 110mph so he couldnt get a good read of the actual peak whp.
And how does a high final drive equal out to a higher top speed. I mean think about it for a while. It just wont. I havent taken a calculator to it, but if a typeR can potentially hit 165mph with a 4.76 Final Gear, then the stock typeS motor with a 4.38 final gear will go higher. Its a basic concept.

 
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That doesn't surprise me. I believe I was told that is quite natural of JDM stock ECUs to do that. It doesn't sound like something worth worrying about more than something that could eventually be broken.

Take the ratios to the calculator. If the ECU didn't stop the car from going 110 the car putting down more power would win and I doubt the S has the power against the R to do that. The DC2R shares nearly the same final drive ratio (as the DC5R), puts down a bit less power than the DC5R and ITR owners have in fact reached 145-150MPH in the car w/o modifications.

 
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i know of Type S owners that have gotten that high as well. I think it would be a good run, pretty close, up top atleast. I know down low the R would have its way with the TypeS. The lighter flywheel, little more power, and the better gearing would do the trick nicely.