Cmac84

*I'm not mechanic* but I studied engineerig.. and I want to run this by everybody before trying.

So my heat takes forever to kick in (30m) and when parked I go off the guage H. No problem as soo .as I drive it cools right down.

So I ran it parked for 5m and took the rad cap off and say bubbling. Suffice to say do you think its safe to say when I got my water pump changed they got air in my rad? If so could I tehnically run it till there are no more bubbles and refill with say a litre? Only makes sense from a theory, wondering what you guys think that work on cars not programming software lol

Cmac84

Sorry bad kn / cracked iphone screen

clinton_hedrick

If you've let it overheat past what the gauge, there's a good chance you've warped the head. Most likely a blown HG. It's a good idea to stop your car BEFORE it gets that hot, like as soon as it is above what it should be.

DeamonG37S

head gasket as clinton said.
honda have serious issues with this. mine same thing

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

WHOAAAAAAAA guys. Let's not toss a head gasket into the equasion just yet. It could very possible be air in the system even though he did overheat it. To jump straight to a warped head is crazy.

Bleed the air out of the system, and see how the car acts after that. Check your coolant daily and make sure your overlow is not "overfilling".

If simply bleeding of air (PROPERLY) works, your in luck.

fusion158

iTrader: (2)

Did the radiator fan's kick in when the engine was getting hot?

Cmac84

I'm fairly confident it's air. If it's a head gasket I would probably be seeing more problems. The only issues I get are when parked. If I put it in N at a light the temp stays right bang in the center.

My heater NEVER kicks in either until about an hour of driving or if I'm on highway speeds which lead me to believe it was air initially, I suppose the problem just got worst as I procrastinated the past two weeks. I'm going to bleed it tonight when I get home (2 hours from now) and see what happens over the next few days.

I luckily have a mechanic/dealership friend that owes me money and has a couple of trashed Civics in his lot so if its a HG I'm not too concerned.

I'll update tomorrow or Sunday on symptoms. Anything else I should look for after getting rid of any air in the rad?

P.S It never got "physically" hot. The hood was cold as ice, and the block was not any warmer than usual when I lifted the hood to have a look-see this morning. So maybe other than air a thermostat issue?

Cmac84

P.S it was overheating while parked in 4 wide lane traffic in front of the parliment buildings lmao, I couldn't stop, but I did about 3 blocks down as soon as I could, checked the hood (was cold) and the block was ambient considering. I had NOWHERE to pull over without getting into some serious **** when it decided to go past H. However as per my last post I really think its either air or a thermostat issue.

Keep in mind I JUST had the water pump replaced, im thinking he didnt bleed the air out properly... (mind you I have limited knowledge and I'm guessing from an engineering standpoint)

I.E its not like I drove it for longer than a few minutes with it at peak tempature

ezone

That head needs to come off. I bet it will be warped now, if it wasn't already.


No, you wouldn't.

Search this site for
head gasket
overheating
no heat
and start reading about all the 01-05 Civics that have this problem.


You have had a problem for a long, long time.

Do you know what "HOT" means?
Do you know what component the temperature gauge indicates the temperature of?

OMFGLOL....
Oh. Umm. You were serious?

OK, but you have had this same problem for some time prior to this work, or did this problem start when this work was done?
Why didn't you have these problems checked and addressed before the water pump was replaced? (Did it get the timing belt too?)

And all the mechanic had to do was get it full of coolant and burp it. These don't have huge problems with trapped air and bleeding IMO. These have problems with blown head gaskets pumping "air" into the cooling system.

Engineering? What field?

I get the limited knowledge. Gotta poke fun though.
If this was about cooking, I'd be a total n0ob.

Cmac84

Relax now, I said that I'm no mechanic. When my 84 Camaro used to overheat it there was physically steam coming off the block (its -10-20 here right now).

I reported these issues which started happening to the mechanic right away (after they started happening).. its a family friend so theres something to be said about dealing with family.

I work in, as i've said; Software/Computer Science, but yes I am aware that I wouldn't technically feel the heat from the hood which is why I also checked the heat off the block and pull the rad cap off and stated below I noticed some bubbling.

I pulled over the safest place I could as soon as it reached HOT on the gauge, if I had a picture of the road I'm talking about it has two highways combining into one from two provinces (i.e a bridge with 3 lanes and a highway with 2) and no shoulder. So I took the first right and hit the first parking lot. Want me to drive on the frigging snow banks? lol.

Either way, I'm covered just have to get buddy to accept the fact he ****ed up obviously when he changed my water pump (and yes, I got him to do the belt while in the guts).

You know, I don't go when someone deletes their MBR for their production server on IRC, I help them because I'm lucky enough to have that knowledge base. No need to be a jackass, I can easily drive the rustang to work monday, just gotta put in the hassle of taking off the low profiles and putting on the winter tires+rims. Too much HP in snow sucks ****ing ***** though...

ezone

You snicker and you want to do it though.

I just do it.
Some people don't like my sense of humor.
I never said I was P.C.

I doubt he knowingly did anything wrong.

You said My heater NEVER kicks in either until about an hour of driving or if I'm on highway speeds which lead me to believe it was air initially,
Yes this sounds like "air" has probably displaced the coolant (not the only possible cause though), but I was trying to figure out when this problem started. You sort of alluded to it being a problem longer than just since the water pump was replaced.

If this problem only started since the pump was replaced.......

Combine that statement with this one: and when parked I go off the guage H. No problem as soo .as I drive it cools right down.
And you said there's bubbling in the radiator so it must be fairly full if you can see the coolant.....(The bubbling makes me think blown head gasket right away.) Any other signs? Steam blowing off? Does the radiator cap hold pressure? Reservoir overflows?

Was a factory water pump used?
Or some aftermarket cheapo pump?
I'm guessing a cheapo.

I might want to study how the coolant is circulating now. This may be a matter of inefficiency of the new water pump at low RPM.
I'd want to see the impeller of the new cheapo water pump. I bet it isn't even close to the original design, or has too much gap between the fins and the block.


A few things:
1)These blow head gaskets without overheating.
2)If the blown head gasket is not noticed or it is ignored long enough, then the overheat happens once there is insufficient coolant in the block and radiator. Now the head warps if it got hot enough.
3) Was there a real problem with the water pump you had replaced by the mechanic?

But now there is the issue of the gauge has been to the "H" mark or past it.(BTW did you happen to notice if the radiator fans were running when this happened?)
Problem is now compounded and makes the first complaint harder to figure out.
Head gasket time, easy enough to prove if it is part of the problem.
Pressurize cylinders and see if it goes into the cooling system.
Blown? Pull the head off.
Check the head for warpage and fix that while it is apart.
Put a factory water pump on while this is all apart.

Cmac84

Sorry mate I'm mid divorce right now so a little intolerant, I do the same, wont lie and apologize.

So I now know theres probably two problems.

1) Leak
2) If my HG wasnt cracked/warped it is now.

I topped up my res as it was low, rad had sufficent levels visible about an inch below the cap. Driving home from work this morning (had to go to the office) started smelling burning coolant (sugar) then minutes later plastic but the guaage was not hot. I pulled over and all coolant was gone (after waiting 40m for it to cycle).

I checked my oil, no bubbles or film so im praying the block didnt crack.

The fans blowing full tilt, I filled er up with coolant to get home (no choice) and it stayed cool butsmelt like burning sugar the whole time. Just as I pulled into my driveway the guage was hitting hot *phew*

yes this all started when I got the pump and belt replaced say... late december?

The little fluid in the res has no oil mixed and my oil has no bubbles or white film so again, pray the block didnt crack. I forgot to mention I bought a trashed civic from an accident for spare parts so hopefully the HGs are good in it. Was more concerned with buying that wrecker for its tranny considering my kms.

I looked everywere for a leak, cant see one....

At this point im going to tow it to the mechanic and put winter tires on my stang, but it friggin sucks drivng in snow.

Thanks for the help guys, ill post what happens for your own interest.

clinton_hedrick

Sorry if sounded harsh/mean in my first post.

But don't use a used gasket from your parts car. That is just asking for the problem to happen again, buy a new one (and new intake, exhaust etc. gaskets).

The leak is probably going out the exhaust. (assuming you have a blown HG)

Cmac84

Its all good, it's the internet after-all. I appreciate the apology though, and help.

It's weird that my buddy who brought coolant didn't see any water/vapour/white smoke out my exhaust though then no?

I'm kind of low on funds (re: divorce), I wonder, my house is 5km or less from my mechanic, do you think filling err up with coolant again and trying to make it there is a bad idea or should I bite the bullet and tow

WORST timing for this to happen, I'm in the midst of selling my house at a loss, the mustang is on its last legs and I rolled my porsche last summer (its a lawn ornament right now at the old house).

What do you think the chances are my block cracked? Think I would of seen some garbage in my coolant res and in my oil if so? I wonder why my idiot light hasnt come on....

I'll tell my mech not to use parts from the parts car, thanks for the tip. Like I said, bought it mainly for use of the tranny as it's still good, it was T-Boned so the front end didn't get to much damage, offered the lady 1k for it as it only had 80k on it. But since the frame is totally bent like Charlie Sheen @ Mardi Gras it could never be put on the road.

I'm just really really hoping I didn't crack the block and as strange as it sounds hoping that burning plastic smell was the head gaskets lol. I can't afford a new car and my credit is warped from this divorce.

Cmac84

Hmm... I had to move my car to another parking spot (easier for the tow) and noticed the rad fan isnt blowing at all anymore, kinda hoping the burning plastic smell was just the fan, I know its unlikely an I'm being super optmistic hoping its not worst case, if its just a blown out fan and coolant leak Illquit smoking. At least I talked to my mech and he said he'll cover it till I can pay.

ezone

Divorce? Sorry bub. Been through it myself.

I'll try to address some of the statements without quoting (and my memory sucks):

Your financial situation has nothing to do with how broken the car is either. The car didn't maliciously malfunction because of your funding.

When you topped up the reservoir: Did you fill it to the top, or only to the FULL line? The reservoir is never supposed to be filled to the top, it WILL puke the excess all over and on the ground as the fluid in the radiator normally expands when heated (laws of thermodynamics).
On top of that, the bad head gasket tries to fill the cooling system with "air" and pushes out much of the antifreeze as it does.

The blocks don't crack. (I can't say "never", because I'm certain to be proven wrong.)

When the head gasket goes on this engine, they don't usually do "all the normal things" most people expect from a bad head gasket. This is one reason why so many are misdiagnosed and/or the last thing to get replaced, after exhausting all other possibilities and money.

The sickeningly sweet smell is antifreeze. Locating the source will help tell what the leak is. It's probably coming out of the reservoir and spraying all over the place.

Not sure what you think the "plastic" smell is though.

The radiator fans don't run until the temp sensor tells them to. Yiou just started the car they should not be running unless it is still in the middle of being HOT. (Unless the AC compressor is running.)

Don't ever reuse a used head gasket. Gaskets are usually throwaway items.

The spare car is full of good used parts though.
Using a used cylinder head might be ok if it is good (flatness and valves, etc.)....but now you must figure up the labor charges to remove it (if you can't do it yourself). Does that make economic sense?

How about using the whole engine?

Can you take it apart yourself?

Better plan on getting the radiator out of it too. The overheat could have easily damaged the area of the neck where the cap gaskets must seal. (Steam erosion.) If the cooling system cannot hold and maintain pressure properly, that can allow the antifreeze to boil and that is bad.


You still haven't said what sort of water pump was installed.

Here's another SWAG: What do you think would happen if your mech got almost done with the job and ran the engine.....before filling it with coolant?
How quick would damage happen?
How long would he have run it before realizing his mistake?
(I'm not saying this is what happened, but I have seen it happen in the past, and seen amazing amounts of effort go to cover it up.)


The car runs? You figured out that refilling the radiator with coolant makes it stop overheating?
You have been driving it all over the place in spite of all these problems, why bother to tow it now? That makes no sense.
Fill it with coolant and drive it to the shop. The damage is already done.

I just hope your mechanic is smart enough to figure out all the issues. You made him sound like a parts installer%u00AE, not someone who can figure out problems.
The wrong person doing the work can cost you far more than what the job alone cost.

Cmac84

I know the diff between the smell of coolant etc, thats why the plastic threw me off and was worried some coolant sprayed and maybe melted some electrical wiring :S

I dont get where you think I implied it malfunctioned because im in a bad financial situation, I stated its the worst time for this.... thats all... Im not crazy lol. the worlds not out to get me lmao.

annnnyways, my mechanic isnt a parts guy, hes a family friend who owns a dealership and multiple garages in the city, i brought it to his home garage though cause hes working on it now for me, was a 20m drive.. i dont get why it didnt act up.. but
He knows his ****, im thinking he had one of his guys do the pump, cause any work hes done on my old gti or porsche (had an audi engine) was beyond perfection... dont know what to say and dont want to insult him....

Ironically it didnt overheat, leak fluid or give me any problems enroute to his house and while I ran the AC to be safe (if only in my mind) the heat kicked in instantly before switching. wtf. I dont get it... it ran perfect with no overheating for a 20m drive :S


Either way its in good hands, now off to jack up the stang... Im normally ambivalent towards online drama/bait type comments towards a shitty personal situation, but I understand that I could of handled it better, but I also had few options, I have a high demand always on call job, im a single dad and have about as much free time to pinch a loaf as I do to change tires. I stupidly took advice from a member I wont name that I was assured it was just an air pocket in the rad and I could drive it till I could get it to the garage this weekend, I should of listened to my gut or started this thread immediately... lesson learnt the hard way. No need to rub it in, ive just never experienced such major issues without prior indication... However thats a little bit two sided as the intermittent overheating when in park was the indicator.. so im kind of at fault no matter how you look at it.

all fairness though, civics are weird compared to all other cars ive owned, issues seem to present themselves sneakily with a fast progression of f*** to fubared (or maybe its just me).

I shouldnt have trusted the lag in heat kicking in was due to an air pocket and couldnt of waited.. what can i do. Lesson learnt possibly the very hard way.

anyways, no the res was never filled above the max line, in fact in between min/max in case more flushed through.

When I was 16 and green I let my 626 overheat and cracked the block... thats why im concerned.. This mustang doesnt have much life left and I hate putting it on the road in the winter... argh.....

sorry for wasting anyones time. thanks for input everyone... i appreciate .your time

ezone

Won't happen. The wiring is pretty tough.
Still can't picture what might cause a "plastic smell" that would be noticed over the sickeningly sweet antifreeze smell.
Maybe it is burned oil you smell?
IDK.

That comment was more for others that might find this thread later. And entertainment value.


I bet if you had been refilling the radiator before every trip and kept trips to short distances, you wouldn't notice many of the symptoms.


Aaaah ok.

2 completely different sides of the freekin' PLANET.

Euro is a whole entirely different animal from Asian.
Having 4 wheels is where the similarities end.
The thought processes behind the engineering is just....different. They do not think the same way as Asians or Americans.

I know, I have been on both sides of this.

My first car was a 63 Bug.
My first mechanic job was at a shop where 50% of the business was VW, mostly air cooled.
My first dealer job was at a VW and Honda dealer. I was in VW most of the time.

My second dealer job was at a Mercedes Benz, Porsche, Audi and Mazda dealer. (I learned to despise Audis there. This was back when they had their "unintended acceleration" problems. I also hated the engineers at BMW. )

The rest of my work has been American, Asian and independent. I now hate the engineers at Chrysler, Mitsubishi and Nissan too.


Back on track........Your guy might be fabulous with Euro cars, but he may not be used to "the Asian way of thinking". Back when I was used to VW, those old Hondas were just weird to me. I didn't "get it" and trying to do what was natural for a VW just wouldn't fly on the Hondas.
The MB-Porsche guys wouldn't touch the Mazdas. Some seemingly simple stuff got done wrong when they did.

Now that I am so used to Hondas, I really hate to touch many other brands.


Rear wheel drive or front?
I had an 84 626, was rusted away to dangerous in only 10 years/200,000 miles.
My lowrider is a 87 B2000. Still have it tucked away.
In the 10 years I spent at the dealer, I saw a lot of overheats, but none cracked the block. Saw some literally run until they melted down. Melted the aluminum head. Most got a used engine if they got hot enough to really lose compression (collapse rings), was cheaper to replace than to rebuild.


They are run on the ragged edge of the limit, in some aspects. No built in room for error (like old American iron had room for an extra gallon in the radiator and would be just fine with a leak for a while). And they don't tolerate abuse or neglect very well.
YW.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I didn't read all this. But have you tried bleeding the air out yet?

Cmac84

I didnt get a chance, enroute home from work when I initially created this thread is when **** hit the fan.. its at the garage, stangs on the road fishtailing every fudging time I hit a snow covered street. trying to stick to highways/major routes and min driving till I hear back on the beater.

Ezone: The 626 was my older brothers, I got it in 97/98? I never knew the year was just a skatepunk/metal musician who smoked out listening to bathory and venom in my ugly gold 626 lol. Young stupid city kid. But was definitely a cracked block, mind you I also was dumb back then, no oil changes no checkups, drove with the idiot liht on for months doing donuts and trying to race CRXs.. kid stuff. I was more interested in Kerrang!, Thrasher and learning sweeps (guitar).

Cmac84

I didnt get a chance, enroute home from work when I initially created this thread is when **** hit the fan.. its at the garage, stangs on the road fishtailing every fudging time I hit a snow covered street. trying to stick to highways/major routes and min driving till I hear back on the beater.

Ezone: The 626 was my older brothers, I got it in 97/98? I never knew the year was just a skatepunk/metal musician who smoked out listening to bathory and venom in my ugly gold 626 lol. Young stupid city kid. But was definitely a cracked block, mind you I also was dumb back then, no oil changes no checkups, drove with the idiot liht on for months doing donuts and trying to race CRXs.. kid stuff. I was more interested in Kerrang!, Thrasher and learning sweeps (guitar).

Cmac84

K guys.. little frustrated here.

So its been at the mechs for 4 going on 5 days. They can't re-create the problem. It wont overheat, compression tests are good, no vapour trail, no water/fluid in the oil, spark plugs have no discoloration.

Im suppose to pick it up tomorrow.

But I dont get it, I went through about 4 jugs of coolant just getting maybe 20km home that night, could it be that there was an air bubble that burped and resolved the issue? He even drove it home, let it run in the lot for hours, it wont over-heat again... so frustrating for me!!

What the heck else can I do here? Its being sneaky. It also has an issue with shaking wildly on the highway above 100km an hour but it happens intermittently and also nothing showed up at the mechs.

he's a competent guy, and has worked on a number of Asian cars including lots of 7th gen civics, my father brought up a point that maybe because I bought it off him he is fixing the issues and not telling me out of guilt? Is this common?

the fan apparently is working now too.. I dont understand...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

The shaking, if it's intermittent is either snow buildup in the wheel wells behind the tire where you can't see it or the wheel balance is out. Most likely snow buildup.

The overheating is probably air in the system. How big were the jugs of coolant?

Cmac84

I literally had to refill the coolant twice completely enroute home (which took about three hours for a 10 minute drive), there HAS to be a bigger issue.. hairline fracture of the rad?

As for the "snow in tires" I was able to rule that out easily (it happens on snowy or non snowy days). If I let pressure off the gas pedal and gently press back down it stops it. I explained this back a month ago and they found nothing (and was slightly offended at me asking him to re-balance the tires after he had done it a few weeks before)

but back on track the coolant has to be somewere.......

Maybe the smell of coolant and burnt plastic was coolant spraying out of my rad and melting something, all I know is that there was no overflow, I waited until it was well cool and checked the rad for any fluid (none) and also saw none in the res, I had to top it in the morning with another 1.4 litres (estimating)

so frustrating, I mean I had to pull over so many times it was ridiculous and it hit H at least 4-5 times out of the 20 times I pulled over (guessing), I dont understand one bit how I didn't ruin a gasket/warp a head/blow the fan (I mean it wasn't even spinning the next morning when testing with AC on full and after warmed up and dropped off

can any dealers say whether when mechanic friends sell cars to you if they secretly fix things? If there was nothing wrong I would of gotten it back Mon not Wed if it was dropped off Saturday no? I dont know...

What are your thoughts on that liquid gasket/block sealant just for sanity? Is it ****?

I mean this stuff: http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/AutoRepairAccessories/SpecialtyRepair/PRDOVR~0380846P/Rislone+Liquid+Copper+Block+Seal+Intake%2BRadiator +Stop+Leak.jsp?locale=en
or this
http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows...=en#product_aa

is that a waste of time just for sanity sake? I realllllly can't afford to bring it to another mechanic.

pjb3

I would not use stop leak in any of my cars. In most cases they stop the leak by containing particles that build up at the leak to stop it. The problem is they can also block small passages that are needed for cooling. They may stop the leak but cause bigger problems later.

The head gasket repair stuff I don't see working either. The way the head gasket fails most commonly in a Civic allows combustion gas to enter the cooling system. The pressure difference between the combustion gases and the cooling system will prevent anything from sealing it.

To answer your question about the mechanic, they are like anyone else. Some are extremely honest and some aren't. Just because the car was there from Sat to Wed doesn't mean anything. If he was looking at it as a favor then he may have waited until he had a break from paying jobs, or it may be that he really tested it for extended periods and found nothing. My guess is if he did find a problem and fix it he would tell you since the problem would be solved. Your problem would be if he found a major problem and put a "band-aid" on it so it would last long enough for the seller to be off the hook for repairs.

ezone

Inner CV joint(s) bad.


I still think it has. Someone just hasn't proven it yet.


I pressurize each cylinder with 170 PSI air pressure, then watch what happens in the radiator.


More reading:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...ml#post4631814

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...ml#post4631814



You need to understand the hows, whys and whens about the radiator fans before you can judge this.

Cmac84

I actualled asked him to test everythin from compression to whether there was carbon/particles in my res. The full make sure kinda thing.

I suppose I can drop it off at Honda and really bite the bullet hard, but he has no reason to lie. Monday he said it was fine I talked him into doing the compression tests and checking for a blown gasket (he was just trying to recreate the problem sat n sun)

So one person is against the stop leak, anyone else agree on that?

Realistically I just need this to last till summer NEXT year (ie. one more winter).

Maybe Ill check out an ad on kijiji for someone to do the same testing and buy the parts myself and get em to do it for cheaper than honda. At least my buddy is a machinest who can take care of that part of the process, Ill get an OEM HG if needed.

as for the inner cv joints apparently there is no issue... but this all makes my mech sound suspect when he really is good at hia job. The drive today was smoother and temp was cooler than ever (instead of riding right at 50% was at 35%) the whole drive, rumble was gone when starting.. im thinking something was done its just 'what'.

there's no reliability, and the favor was the diagnosis but i was gonna pay for the work so he had nothing to lose.... but to play it safe I guess Ill have to bring it somewere for a second opinion.
just gotta decide, the guy off honda-tech i know from here, or a honda dealership.

Was also thinking of doing my own oil change after driving the next 2 days and inspecting the pan... at least as a start.....

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Obviously this is going to be very hard to diagnose unless the problem reappears. Keep driving the car, if the coolant does something funny again take it and get it diagnosed. Keep some coolant in the car so you can make it home. It seems you have all the bases covered at this point since the car has been so thoroughly checked. Keep a close eye on the temperature gauge if it starts to go up stop right away to prevent further damage if something is actually wrong with it.

Cmac84

enroute right now to work I needed some de-icer/washer fluid and checked my oil, noticed its at about 50% what it was before bringing it in (had checked prior). Going to do an oil change Friday after work when I'm done work (running fiber in the office the past two weeks hence nights) so I'm exhausted.

I'll check again when I get home and if it's dropped considerably more I'll bring it right back in. Although I suppose when I was overheating Ezone could be correct that the smell I observed was burning oil... getting annoyed here. But burning oil has always smelt like burning oil to me, not plastic. My mustang burns oil bad being an 80s FORD so I'm used to the smell.

Cmac84

heh. So apparently my guy worked exclusively on Civics for almost 10 years before moving onto more ****. I never knew that. (is my sons godfathers father). He sent a text saying that I shouldn't worry, if it overheats again we'll drop the block from the parts car in for free labor. So what can I complain about.

meh.. you learn something new about people everyday. You guys had me all riled up that little satan was toast. She's just fine even if she did burn up..