My New Addiction
08-10-2004
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My New Addiction
Well, i attended my first autocross this sunday( the 8th).
I did ok. My first two runs i got a little over rambuctious and had an off course. my third run i had a 45.xxx. and my last run i got a 44.3xx but hit a cone.
my main problem was that i was pushing myself and my car too hard due to the excitement and i believe that i could have, and will have better times.
i also learned that i need to consider upgrading to a bigger rear bar, better rubber, and maybe some springs/shocks/struts. i think ill look into getting some strut bars and tie bars. but before i purchase anything, i want to get some more seat time.
oh, and just for reference, i ran STS. the class winner was a '97 EX(?) with a 39.xxx, second went to an 02 Si, with a 40.xxx and third was a '00 Si with a 40.xxx im not sure what place i came in, but there were 8 or 9 cars in STS.
I did ok. My first two runs i got a little over rambuctious and had an off course. my third run i had a 45.xxx. and my last run i got a 44.3xx but hit a cone.
my main problem was that i was pushing myself and my car too hard due to the excitement and i believe that i could have, and will have better times.
i also learned that i need to consider upgrading to a bigger rear bar, better rubber, and maybe some springs/shocks/struts. i think ill look into getting some strut bars and tie bars. but before i purchase anything, i want to get some more seat time.
oh, and just for reference, i ran STS. the class winner was a '97 EX(?) with a 39.xxx, second went to an 02 Si, with a 40.xxx and third was a '00 Si with a 40.xxx im not sure what place i came in, but there were 8 or 9 cars in STS.
08-10-2004
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Originally Posted by EternalVTEC
Well, i attended my first autocross this sunday( the 8th).
I did ok. My first two runs i got a little over rambuctious and had an off course. my third run i had a 45.xxx. and my last run i got a 44.3xx but hit a cone.
my main problem was that i was pushing myself and my car too hard due to the excitement and i believe that i could have, and will have better times.
i also learned that i need to consider upgrading to a bigger rear bar, better rubber, and maybe some springs/shocks/struts. i think ill look into getting some strut bars and tie bars. but before i purchase anything, i want to get some more seat time.
oh, and just for reference, i ran STS. the class winner was a '97 EX(?) with a 39.xxx, second went to an 02 Si, with a 40.xxx and third was a '00 Si with a 40.xxx im not sure what place i came in, but there were 8 or 9 cars in STS.
I did ok. My first two runs i got a little over rambuctious and had an off course. my third run i had a 45.xxx. and my last run i got a 44.3xx but hit a cone.
my main problem was that i was pushing myself and my car too hard due to the excitement and i believe that i could have, and will have better times.
i also learned that i need to consider upgrading to a bigger rear bar, better rubber, and maybe some springs/shocks/struts. i think ill look into getting some strut bars and tie bars. but before i purchase anything, i want to get some more seat time.
oh, and just for reference, i ran STS. the class winner was a '97 EX(?) with a 39.xxx, second went to an 02 Si, with a 40.xxx and third was a '00 Si with a 40.xxx im not sure what place i came in, but there were 8 or 9 cars in STS.
Is the owner of the 02 Si a member of this site? or ephatch.com ?
What mods does he have?
08-10-2004
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Rep Power: 0 Glad to hear you had fun. This past Sunday was my 1st Autocross as well. The course was 9 tenths of a mile long and FAST! FattyMCJ ran a 75.297 while my best was 82.209. I really think it's time to get springs and shocks. There were 22 cars running in STS alone and I'm just glad I didn't come in dead last my first time out.
08-10-2004
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Glad you had fun, soon enough you'll find your self driving for 8 hours just to do 6 runs over 2 days at the national tour.... ya, were sick like that.
as far as what to do with the car Right now...... my recomendation.... DO nothing. Run a handfull of events with the car as is. Learn as much as you can with the rock hard tires, and understeering suspension. It will make you that much better of a driver. after that, the right wheels and tires should be your #1 part. (make sure you get a set of 15X7s).
good luck, have fun, and soon enough you'll find your self at the front of the pack.
as far as what to do with the car Right now...... my recomendation.... DO nothing. Run a handfull of events with the car as is. Learn as much as you can with the rock hard tires, and understeering suspension. It will make you that much better of a driver. after that, the right wheels and tires should be your #1 part. (make sure you get a set of 15X7s).
good luck, have fun, and soon enough you'll find your self at the front of the pack.
08-11-2004
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Originally Posted by Zzyzx
Glad you had fun, soon enough you'll find your self driving for 8 hours just to do 6 runs over 2 days at the national tour.... ya, were sick like that.
as far as what to do with the car Right now...... my recomendation.... DO nothing. Run a handfull of events with the car as is. Learn as much as you can with the rock hard tires, and understeering suspension. It will make you that much better of a driver. after that, the right wheels and tires should be your #1 part. (make sure you get a set of 15X7s).
good luck, have fun, and soon enough you'll find your self at the front of the pack.
as far as what to do with the car Right now...... my recomendation.... DO nothing. Run a handfull of events with the car as is. Learn as much as you can with the rock hard tires, and understeering suspension. It will make you that much better of a driver. after that, the right wheels and tires should be your #1 part. (make sure you get a set of 15X7s).
good luck, have fun, and soon enough you'll find your self at the front of the pack.
Listen to this man. I didn't when I first started and I regret it. (Wasted a TON of money.....like $2k on suspension **** that didn't really make ME any faster
)Now that I have the new EP3......I AM listening...and I AM doing MUCH better than I ever thought I would with a COMPLETELY STOCK EP3..on ROCKS for tires....
Actually....if you take his advice....and try different things when you can....you will learn a TON, like how to make the *** end come out from behind you in a FWD car.
SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME, SEAT TIME....save the money you'd spend on parts and put it into seat time, i.e. Go Kart racing, Track "Test-n-Tune" days, and AS MANY AUTOX EVENTS AS YOU CAN ATTEND. That will be your best investment.
*I sound like an "Info-mercial" salesman...
08-11-2004
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Rep Power: 0 Fatty, yeah, he is a member on the Hatch. He is amctmg over there. he had an eBay SRI, eBay springs, hondata, azenis on 15's, an 04 rear sway, a literaly home made RUSB, i think an ebay header, a custom mid-pipe, and a generic rear section/muffler.
he saw me roll in, saw my 7thGen License Plate Frame, and he said that he thought "....Hmmm, I wonder if he knows about ephatch.com."
i actually approached him first. i was kind of expecting him there.
Also, Fatty and Zzyzx....
that was what i was planning on doing. i mean, if you learn how to control a car with less than optimal handling, you are using the optimal learning technique.
i think while im learning the suspension, ill buy some exhaust parts, and some asthetic parts. you know how money has a nasty way of burning holes in your pockets... 
he saw me roll in, saw my 7thGen License Plate Frame, and he said that he thought "....Hmmm, I wonder if he knows about ephatch.com."
i actually approached him first. i was kind of expecting him there.
Also, Fatty and Zzyzx....
that was what i was planning on doing. i mean, if you learn how to control a car with less than optimal handling, you are using the optimal learning technique.
i think while im learning the suspension, ill buy some exhaust parts, and some asthetic parts. you know how money has a nasty way of burning holes in your pockets...
08-11-2004
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Originally Posted by EternalVTEC
Fatty, yeah, he is a member on the Hatch. He is amctmg over there. he had an eBay SRI, eBay springs, hondata, azenis on 15's, an 04 rear sway, a literaly home made RUSB, i think an ebay header, a custom mid-pipe, and a generic rear section/muffler.
he saw me roll in, saw my 7thGen License Plate Frame, and he said that he thought "....Hmmm, I wonder if he knows about ephatch.com."
i actually approached him first. i was kind of expecting him there.
Also, Fatty and Zzyzx....
that was what i was planning on doing. i mean, if you learn how to control a car with less than optimal handling, you are using the optimal learning technique.
i think while im learning the suspension, ill buy some exhaust parts, and some asthetic parts. you know how money has a nasty way of burning holes in your pockets...
he saw me roll in, saw my 7thGen License Plate Frame, and he said that he thought "....Hmmm, I wonder if he knows about ephatch.com."
i actually approached him first. i was kind of expecting him there.
Also, Fatty and Zzyzx....
that was what i was planning on doing. i mean, if you learn how to control a car with less than optimal handling, you are using the optimal learning technique.
i think while im learning the suspension, ill buy some exhaust parts, and some asthetic parts. you know how money has a nasty way of burning holes in your pockets...
BTW...who are you on epsnatch.com ?
Same SN ? We need to get that AutoX forum goin' over thurr...it's DEAD. 
But yeah....about the "asthetic" parts.....just remember, it's extra weight if it's not stock. (Like my body kit....just extra weight). But I TOTALLY feel ya on the "burning a hole in your pocket".....
About the exhaust....you MIGHT lose some low end torque with an aftermarket exhaust (ask Zzyzx)....but you'll SOUND better! lol
08-11-2004
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Rep Power: 0 i know, but my car is a DD, so those little things dont matter to me as much
on a side note, before hitting the track, i had the front set at 45psi and the rear at 42psi. since i read on a website that that was a good starting point for FWD cars. i only checked them again after the last of the 4 runs. they were now at ~50psi or less.
i didnt feel any differences with those extra 5 psi, or maybe in not sensitive enough to feel the difference. anyway, any responses to that, anoyone?
on a side note, before hitting the track, i had the front set at 45psi and the rear at 42psi. since i read on a website that that was a good starting point for FWD cars. i only checked them again after the last of the 4 runs. they were now at ~50psi or less.
i didnt feel any differences with those extra 5 psi, or maybe in not sensitive enough to feel the difference. anyway, any responses to that, anoyone?
Last edited by EternalVTEC; 08-11-2004 at 03:02 AM.
08-11-2004
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Originally Posted by EternalVTEC
i know, but my car is a DD, so those little things dont matter to me as much
on a side note, before hitting the track, i had all 4 tires set at 45psi. since i read on a website that that was a good starting point for FWD cars. i only checked them again after the last of the 4 runs. they were now at ~50psi.
i didnt feel any differences with those extra 5 psi, or maybe in not sensitive enough to feel the difference. anyway, any responses to that, anoyone?
on a side note, before hitting the track, i had all 4 tires set at 45psi. since i read on a website that that was a good starting point for FWD cars. i only checked them again after the last of the 4 runs. they were now at ~50psi.
i didnt feel any differences with those extra 5 psi, or maybe in not sensitive enough to feel the difference. anyway, any responses to that, anoyone?
Ok...Hot air rises...why? Because it's less dense....
being so....it takes up more space (more volume) thus creating a higher PSI in an enclosed area. When the molecules of air heat up, they move faster and farther apart, creating more volume, but since air can be compressed, that volume is transferred into PSI.
If that makes sense....it's late, and that's the best I could do, lol.
As far as being able to "feel" the diff.....well...unless you REALLY know your car/tires (which most amateur's don't) you won't be able to "FEEL" a difference from such a minute change. But you WILL notice a difference in cornering/handling/tire wear. You see a lot of people marking the sidewalls of their tires with chalk or shoe polish, kinda a cheap tire pressure guage, but it also tells you how much of the contact patch you're actually using. You don't want to go onto the actual sidewall, so if you reach that FINITE point, it's just about perfect.
*on a side note, start with a higher PSI. It's easier to let out air inbetween runs than it is to hook up the pump, and try to dial in the PSI. Just push the pin, and listen to the PSSSS, check with a guage (or do what I do and count 1 onethousand, 2 onethousand, per removal for consistancy, and go from there.) It's not an exact science, but it works.
Kinda hard to explain, but I know that I run 50psi to start with in the rears of my stock rocks, and 48psi in the front. The psi increases as they heat up, but so does the grip, thus keeping the tires on an even keel, so to speak. When I ran my Azenis, I ran a bit higher on the rear than I did on the front (from expierence with FWD cars it's normal), in an effort to "kick out" the rear end, by way of removing some of the contact patch, thus dropping the "stick" of the tires.
Again...it's late, so my explainations may not be the best....Zzyzx? Rob? Boilermaker? You guys could prolly sum this up in a shorter/better post.
Last edited by FattyMcJ; 08-11-2004 at 03:03 AM.
08-11-2004
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Originally Posted by FattyMcJ
Ok...Hot air rises...why? Because it's less dense....
being so....it takes up more space (more volume) thus creating a higher PSI in an enclosed area. When the molecules of air heat up, they move faster and farther apart, creating more volume, but since air can be compressed, that volume is transferred into PSI.
If that makes sense....it's late, and that's the best I could do, lol.
As far as being able to "feel" the diff.....well...unless you REALLY know your car/tires (which most amateur's don't) you won't be able to "FEEL" a difference from such a minute change. But you WILL notice a difference in cornering/handling/tire wear. You see a lot of people marking the sidewalls of their tires with chalk or shoe polish, kinda a cheap tire pressure guage, but it also tells you how much of the contact patch you're actually using. You don't want to go onto the actual sidewall, so if you reach that FINITE point, it's just about perfect.
*on a side note, start with a higher PSI. It's easier to let out air inbetween runs than it is to hook up the pump, and try to dial in the PSI. Just push the pin, and listen to the PSSSS, check with a guage (or do what I do and count 1 onethousand, 2 onethousand, per removal for consistancy, and go from there.) It's not an exact science, but it works.
Kinda hard to explain, but I know that I run 50psi to start with in the rears of my stock rocks, and 48psi in the front. The psi increases as they heat up, but so does the grip, thus keeping the tires on an even keel, so to speak. When I ran my Azenis, I ran a bit higher on the rear than I did on the front (from expierence with FWD cars it's normal), in an effort to "kick out" the rear end, by way of removing some of the contact patch, thus dropping the "stick" of the tires.
Again...it's late, so my explainations may not be the best....Zzyzx? Rob? Boilermaker? You guys could prolly sum this up in a shorter/better post.
being so....it takes up more space (more volume) thus creating a higher PSI in an enclosed area. When the molecules of air heat up, they move faster and farther apart, creating more volume, but since air can be compressed, that volume is transferred into PSI.
If that makes sense....it's late, and that's the best I could do, lol.
As far as being able to "feel" the diff.....well...unless you REALLY know your car/tires (which most amateur's don't) you won't be able to "FEEL" a difference from such a minute change. But you WILL notice a difference in cornering/handling/tire wear. You see a lot of people marking the sidewalls of their tires with chalk or shoe polish, kinda a cheap tire pressure guage, but it also tells you how much of the contact patch you're actually using. You don't want to go onto the actual sidewall, so if you reach that FINITE point, it's just about perfect.
*on a side note, start with a higher PSI. It's easier to let out air inbetween runs than it is to hook up the pump, and try to dial in the PSI. Just push the pin, and listen to the PSSSS, check with a guage (or do what I do and count 1 onethousand, 2 onethousand, per removal for consistancy, and go from there.) It's not an exact science, but it works.
Kinda hard to explain, but I know that I run 50psi to start with in the rears of my stock rocks, and 48psi in the front. The psi increases as they heat up, but so does the grip, thus keeping the tires on an even keel, so to speak. When I ran my Azenis, I ran a bit higher on the rear than I did on the front (from expierence with FWD cars it's normal), in an effort to "kick out" the rear end, by way of removing some of the contact patch, thus dropping the "stick" of the tires.
Again...it's late, so my explainations may not be the best....Zzyzx? Rob? Boilermaker? You guys could prolly sum this up in a shorter/better post.
ok, i know WHY the pressure goes up, but i was just wondering, if you were in my shoes at that point in time, what would you have done... anyone?
08-11-2004
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Originally Posted by EternalVTEC
ok, i know WHY the pressure goes up, but i was just wondering, if you were in my shoes at that point in time, what would you have done... anyone?
Well....
As long as you didn't notice any adverse effects from the increase, I'd say you were fine.
If you started sliding around more, like an increase in under/over steer...then I would have adjusted the PSI accordingly (increase the front, drop the rear- to compensate for oversteer/drop the front, increase the rear- to compensate for understeer).
But if you didn't notice a diff. (which it sounds like you didn't), at our skill level.....I prolly wouldn't have changed it. Then again, I'm not **** like some people so I don't HAVE to have the SAME psi EVERY run.
Honestly...I think TOO much emphasis is placed upon tire pressure. If people would just learn to loosen up on the wheel when turning, and don't SLAM the gas pedal, understeer wouldn't be such a problem. It's all about preparation, and setting up for three turns ahead. (that's how I look at it, like a Chess game). Tire pressure is such a FINITE adjustment, that most amateurs won't be able to USE that adjustment to it's fullest. Just set it at a reasonable PSI, and leave it. Adjust your driving, it's easier.
Just my $0.02
Last edited by FattyMcJ; 08-11-2004 at 03:31 AM.
08-11-2004
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basicly what youre saying is that tire pressure acts in the same way as sway bars:
bigger rear/more oversteer/less under steer
bigger front/more understeer/less oversteer
basicly what youre saying is that tire pressure acts in the same way as sway bars:
bigger rear/more oversteer/less under steer
bigger front/more understeer/less oversteer
08-11-2004
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Originally Posted by EternalVTEC
some good points
basicly what youre saying is that tire pressure acts in the same way as sway bars:
bigger rear/more oversteer/less under steer
bigger front/more understeer/less oversteer
basicly what youre saying is that tire pressure acts in the same way as sway bars:
bigger rear/more oversteer/less under steer
bigger front/more understeer/less oversteer
LMAO.....
Pretty much.
In a smaller, less noticable, way. It's more of a fine tuning adjustment, whereas sway bars can make a BIG difference. IMO
08-12-2004
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Rep Power: 356 In the begining you'll run some funky tire preasures... as you dial in more negitive camber and set up the suspension properly, your tire preasures will come down to a more Reasonalbe level....
Example, when I was running the car with -.6 deg negitive camber on the front, I ran my falken Azenis at 45-47 PSI.... now that I'm running -2.5 PSIs have droped to 37 on the front..
Example, when I was running the car with -.6 deg negitive camber on the front, I ran my falken Azenis at 45-47 PSI.... now that I'm running -2.5 PSIs have droped to 37 on the front..
08-21-2004
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Rep Power: 0 i will be running my second event tomorrow(sunday) i think im going to *try* to be more calm so i can actually improve my times some
08-21-2004
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Rep Power: 0 oh, hey, i just found the results for my last event. i came in 7th of 8 drivers.
Run #1- O/C
Run #2- O/C
Run #3- 45.208(0 cones)
Run #4- 46.228(1 cone)
Pax- 35.760
Reference,
Fastest PAX, '04 SRT-4, 30.092, he also had the fastest stock time of 37.899
Fastest STS(my class), '91 Civic, PAX of 30.709, and a best time of 38.823
Overall, i placed 64th out of 89 drivers
not toooo bad i guess
Run #1- O/C
Run #2- O/C
Run #3- 45.208(0 cones)
Run #4- 46.228(1 cone)
Pax- 35.760
Reference,
Fastest PAX, '04 SRT-4, 30.092, he also had the fastest stock time of 37.899
Fastest STS(my class), '91 Civic, PAX of 30.709, and a best time of 38.823
Overall, i placed 64th out of 89 drivers
not toooo bad i guess
08-23-2004
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Rep Power: 356 Not bad, My 1st event I came in dead LAST... 
Of course now I just come in 2nd... (Damn 89 Si!!
)
Of course now I just come in 2nd... (Damn 89 Si!!
)
08-24-2004
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Rep Power: 0 lol, thats kind of how it is in our STS class, theres a 91 Si that always wins the class. supposedly hes got a little weight reduction done
here are the results for the race on the 23rd.
Best overall PAX- 1992 Honda Civic, 30.588
Best Overall Time- 37.624
Best STS Pax- 31.133
Best STS Actual Time- 39.359
My PAX- 35.714
My Actual Time- 45.150
I placed 4th of 6 in STS and 49 of 79 overall
First i will say that this was a very tight, and technical course. you did not want to be a novice and have this as your first track. it was very confusing, mainly at the crossover. atleast 2 dozen cars went off course atleast once, and several just couldnt get it and went off multiple times. i will note that i was able to get all the exitement out of my system during the last event and was 100% more calm and more focused on the task at hand.
Going in to this event, i switched from my 17's to my stock 15's cause i'd rather ruin my sh*tty michelins than my $600 Sumitomo's. other than that i had my amp removed temporarily.
My first run was a 50.193. the whole run was in first gear, thought id try it since its a tight course. only hit the rev' limiter twice.
The second run was run in 2nd, with the occasional downshift. That netted a 46.966.
From the drivers seat, i felt that shifting took up more time than it saved, so for the final 3 runs, i stayed in second.
Run3- 45.262
Run4- 45.150
Run5- 45.507
The 5th run i lost concentration and braked too late, thus making me lose more speed than i would have had to. I believe that had it not been for that misque, the 5th run may have been my quickest since i only lost less than 4 tenths from my 4th run.
airpressure was set at 48ish front and 50 rear.
my michelins seem to have worn less than my Sumitomos, even with the extra run.
one observation i did make was seeing that my times were all in the same area, and then comparing my times to an 02 Si (i have an 03) with similar mods to me, i came to the conclusion that, for the most part, his Azenis were what was netting him better times(39.834 actual/31.509 PAX), and his more lengthy Solo II experience (~2/3 - 3/4 of a season i think) made up some of our time differences.
sorry for being so long, just wanted to share what i found
thanks for your time!
here are the results for the race on the 23rd.
Best overall PAX- 1992 Honda Civic, 30.588
Best Overall Time- 37.624
Best STS Pax- 31.133
Best STS Actual Time- 39.359
My PAX- 35.714
My Actual Time- 45.150
I placed 4th of 6 in STS and 49 of 79 overall
First i will say that this was a very tight, and technical course. you did not want to be a novice and have this as your first track. it was very confusing, mainly at the crossover. atleast 2 dozen cars went off course atleast once, and several just couldnt get it and went off multiple times. i will note that i was able to get all the exitement out of my system during the last event and was 100% more calm and more focused on the task at hand.
Going in to this event, i switched from my 17's to my stock 15's cause i'd rather ruin my sh*tty michelins than my $600 Sumitomo's. other than that i had my amp removed temporarily.
My first run was a 50.193. the whole run was in first gear, thought id try it since its a tight course. only hit the rev' limiter twice.
The second run was run in 2nd, with the occasional downshift. That netted a 46.966.
From the drivers seat, i felt that shifting took up more time than it saved, so for the final 3 runs, i stayed in second.
Run3- 45.262
Run4- 45.150
Run5- 45.507
The 5th run i lost concentration and braked too late, thus making me lose more speed than i would have had to. I believe that had it not been for that misque, the 5th run may have been my quickest since i only lost less than 4 tenths from my 4th run.
airpressure was set at 48ish front and 50 rear.
my michelins seem to have worn less than my Sumitomos, even with the extra run.
one observation i did make was seeing that my times were all in the same area, and then comparing my times to an 02 Si (i have an 03) with similar mods to me, i came to the conclusion that, for the most part, his Azenis were what was netting him better times(39.834 actual/31.509 PAX), and his more lengthy Solo II experience (~2/3 - 3/4 of a season i think) made up some of our time differences.
sorry for being so long, just wanted to share what i found
thanks for your time!
Last edited by EternalVTEC; 08-24-2004 at 02:48 AM.
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