FattyMcJ

Ok I read a lot of BoilerMaker's posts and he is always talking about how cool autocrossing is.

Sooo....I decided to check it out. And to my surprise, it's fairly popular here in Denver, CO.


I was just wondering if you guys had any suggestions as to whether or not I should enter with my car being pretty much stock (AEM CAI, Enkei 5+ Rims, Ecsta Supra tires both installed last night) or should I wait until I get more bolt-ons?

Also, the site I'm looking at is http://www.rmsolo.org/

BTW, they have this VIDEO there...is that what it's really like?!?!? COOL...I'm IN!!!



BTW, I know I sound like a NOOB, but the only racing I've ever done is usually between stop lights...not many turns, lol. ANY HELP IS APPRECIATED!!!!

lberry

Right now you will be running in STS class (because of your CAI). What size are your rims?
If you want to run in the stock class take off the CAI and put on your stock box and if your rims are any bigger than 15s I think you can't be in stock class.

If you want to do mods just for AutoXing I would suggest getting tires first....Falken Azenis are bad *** but do not last long for everyday driving.

Just my .02

FattyMcJ

THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!

I have 16" rims.

STS class? I thought I'd be in the HS class

NOW I'm confused. I don't want to remove the CAI and I don't have money for new tires, besides the tires I have on them now are used anyway...bought the set up from a friend last night. $500 for rims/tires...not bad huh?

I think my G/F might buy me either the GReddy Evo cat-back or Tanabe cat-back (don't know which one) soon. Good/Bad?

lberry

Yes, STS (Street Turing Street Tire)
I run in this class and it isbecoming a very popular class in Autoxing.
Basically you can do any bolt-ons... externals only to the engine as long as they are street legal. (I,H,E)
You can do a jetchip or fuel regulator. Suspension wise....most any springs, shocks, strut bars, sways..etc

Check out this site for rules of each class:
http://www.autocross.com/autoc/started.htm

When you go to an event ask questions. The people in this sport are very helpful..at least that been my expierience.

FattyMcJ

Will do....thanks again man!!! BTW...great site...much more user (retarded NOOB) friendly than my local site!

I hope to do well in my first event. If all goes according to plan I'll be running in the Dec. 13th event at my local stadium parking lot. I don't quite know how to register for a "SCCA Membership" but I'm sure I'll figure it out.

ANY LINKS OR TIPS FOR ANYTHING!!!??? You've been a BIG help!

kjgracing

iTrader: (3)

Yes autocrossing is getting more popular.

I am preping my car for STS class. I now have 15" rota slipstreams with
205/50/15 falken azenis sports with a 200 tread wear. My 150tw pirellies
just wore down too quickly.

l00pb4k

If you are interested in an SCCA license or registration...
Forms

For some you are going to need some driving course time, but for Road Rally and Solo classes I don't think they are required. Also there are some regional sites listed on the SCCA Homepage.

oh, and welcome to the twisties...you graduated from straight line and "Stop Light" racing

FattyMcJ

THANKS!!!!

FattyMcJ

Good stuff...thanks again guys!

Zzyzx

Welcome To autocross.

The best place to learn is in the stock classes, but your 16 bump you out of that. the next best place would probably be STS (Like I run). Classing is not really an issue right now because you've never done this before. Most likely you'll be placed in the N classes (novice) if your region has a novice program (Mine doesnt).

as far as preping You and the car, spend more time Preping You rather then the car. (Because any extra prep you do to the car isnt going to help you now anyways).

Start out by praticing proper hand position on the wheel.
1. 2 hand on the wheel! Allways!!!! the only time your hands leave the wheel is to shift, then its straight back to the wheel. (Dont rest your hand on the shift ****).

2. Hands at 3 and 9 (10 and 2 like your driving instructor tought you dosnt give you enough leverage on the wheel).

Second is Proper seating position:
3. First, your seat should be adjusted so that you are able to depress the clutch completely and perform heel/toe braking without banging your knee on the steering column. You should also be able to use the dead pedal for support through high-g turns. Your shoulder harness should be tight so that you do not need to rely upon the steering wheel for support.
Next, you should have a 90- to 120-degree bend in your elbows with your hands in the proper 3 and 9 o'clock positions on the steering wheel. This will allow you to make a 180-degree turn of the wheel when you need to correct an oversteer slide.
Finally, your butt should be tucked firmly into the seat back so that you can get feedback from the chassis and up through the seat. This will give you a better feel as to what the rear end of the car is doing. In keeping with the Zen philosophy of racing, you should become one with your car. Get comfortable, go faster.


Third, Learn to be smooth with the controls
meaning dont pounce on the brake or the gas, dont whip the wheel around and dont slam it in to gear and drop the clutch.... but remember Being smooth does not mean being slow. it just means that you are giving the car enough time to react to what you are telling it to do.

Fourth and Very important, Look ahead!!!!!!!
Drive by looking, look where you want to put the car on the corner exit and you will put the car there. Simple and smooth. Keep your head up and looking to where you are going, not just at whats in front of the hood. ANd NEVER EVER look in you mirriors to see if you hit a cone.


There is tons more, but that would just confuse you. Right now you just need seat time, so go out and Drive. Dont worry about being faster or slower then any body, as long as you are geting faster then you use to be.

For car prep, leave the thing as it sits now. Dont put another dime in to it or change a part. None of that is going to help you now any way. This is one of the few autosports where throwing money at the car will not nessisairly make it faster.


now on to some tips.

1. your going to need to run your tires at a higher pressuer then you would normally run on the street. when I had 17s I ran the fronts at 45-50 and the rears at 35-40 depending on the track. Pick up an air tank if you can and a good pressure gauge.

2. Bring Water, sunscreen, a jacket ect...ect...ect..... autocross is a run/work sport. so if you race, then you are going to work the track too. and standing on the asphalt chasing cones is no fun if your thersty and burnt.

3. check all your fluids the day before the event. and empty out the car of any thing not bolted down. (Spare tire, jack, subwoofers, any and all free floating objects ect....)

4. IF you have a helmet and want to use it, it has to be Snell 98 or newer (Most regions have loaner helmets)

5. Talk to every one and any one who looks like they know what they are doing.

6. walk the course untill they kick you off of it..... Preferably with a more experianced driver.

7.Have fun cause thats the point really.


Links:

Solo II car classifcation and rules
Autocross.com a site dedicated to autocross
Racer Wholsale, good place for helmets and other safty equipment I reccomend getting this if you dont have a Harness
Physics of Racing
Some tips from the pros
Novice handbook

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

www.moutons.org
Read the rules before you do ANYTHING to the car. One stupid part that doesn't conform and you'll have problems.
The car will run STS in that form. It DOESN'T mean Street Touring Street Tire.
The Street Touring rules require the use of street tires for ALL ST- classes, thats why these classes were created. There's STS and STX. S is a more mildly prepared class than X, X is also open to factory Boosted cars. The STX rules loosen the STS rules a little bit, but not much. I don't recommend you go there until you know what you're doing and you feel you have the control of the car to out handle WRXs and Mini Cooper Ss (cuz you're not going to be able to out power them).
If you're just starting out, then just take the car and go. It doesn;t matter how you have it set up because you yourself are the limiting factor to the car's performance. You will drive harder on the course than you ever would think of driving on the street (once the risk of hitting anything subconciously leaves your mind, you'll be able to drive harder) and you need to find the limit of the car without overdriving it. Once you can do that, THEN start messing with things. I would just leave it as is for at least 4 events until you feel you understand what the car will do. Then go to town on the suspension. If you're serious, most of the money you spend will go into the suspension, and its the first thing you should worry about. Just know that those X braces, box braces, and whatever for the lower front are illegal in STS, but I don't think you really need a lower front bar anyways. You want to notice a big difference real fast, get an RSX rear sway bar and a Neuspeed Upper front bar (Thats like $200 total). Then go see how much better the car moves. Power is nothing without control, especially when straightaways are about 100 ft. long and they're only there so you can set up for the next corner. Your tires will be fine for now, don't worry about them, just pump them up about 5-7 PSI higher than you would on the street. I was running 215/45/17s all last season, 36F/35R all around on the street and about 43/39 on the track. It helps keep the tire from rolling over.
Last (for now) and most important, HAVE FUN. Thats the whole point. Theres no sense getting bent out of shape for more than 30 seconds for hitting a cone, DNFing or any of the other crap that can happen (even good drivers scrub runs). Just go out and have a good time, make your goal the first time to beat SOMEONE, ANYONE, just so you're not last. Then as you get better, you'll also find some friendly rivalries start up, which just adds to the fun.

Jeez... wouldn't you know that me and Zzyzx see this at the same time... and whaddya know, we said the same thing. Funny.

FattyMcJ

So would these be ok...or good to use?

Zzyzx

They will do fine, just wipe off that grease before you go racing....

i.e. NO Wheel shine! you're going to use more of the tire then you ever have before, and that includeds the Very edge of the tread. so you dont want any of that greasy shinny stuff any where near the tread.


Heres an example as to how much of the tire you are going to be using.....



notice how much bigger the rear tire is.... that front tire is REALLY rolling over (Common problem with street tires).

00celicagts6spd

wow awesome pic!

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

Thats probably a little extreme... but yeah... a lot of tire.

I don't have any cool shots like that... but here's the aftermath....


The white stuff is shoe polish. Use it as a marker to find out how far the tire is rolling. You don't want it to go past the wear markers (the little triangle molded into the wheel)... any further and you're riding sidewall. The tip of the triangle is a pretty good reference for the front tires being the right pressure. You'll never hit the triangles in the back unless you're doing something very wrong.

Are those Kumho 711 or 712? If they're 711s... I'd be very weary of them chunking/blistering if the pavement is rough. They're a little prone to doing that as a guy I race with found out. If they're 711s I'd take some water to the grid and keep them cool... that seems to help.

Zzyzx

These are my current Race tires (Falken Azenis Sports 205/50-15)

FattyMcJ

WOW, I'll have to check which they are, 711's or 712's. I dunno.

Dang, I didn't know it was THAT rough on tires. Maybe when I do some racing it would be a good idea to put the stock steelies back on? Like Zzyzx has, even though they roll HARD CORE, I'd rather mess up the stock crap tires, than the low pro tires. Just an idea, lemme know if it's good or bad.

Shambler

Im not sure where i heard this, but i read somewhere that on stock tires and stock steelies if not properly prepped, or just running as it, the tire can sometimes hop off the rim... basically leaving the rim scratched to hell along with some other problems...

Is this true, and a fairly common event? Anyways to fix that while keeping stock rims and tires, i.e. pressure, ride height, strut bars...

I really wanted to start Autocrossin and i would like to find out as much as possible before i go out and try.

Thanks
Shambler

lberry

This is why you put more pressure in the tires....to keep them from rolling over. (35 to 40 PSI)
Mark your tires with chalk and see how far they are rolling over after each run.
Low profile tires with more pressure than normal are more than likely not going to roll very bad.
Sure you will get some side wear, but I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Like the other guys said, work on preparing you (The Driver) and worry about all the other things later.

Zzyzx

Don't get too worried about tire wear just yet, those falkens are after a year of autocross (22 events with approx 5-12 Runs each event) and they are a soft compound tire so they wear much quicker then a "True" Street tire any way. There are other issues regarding tire usefullness as a race tire (Heat cycling) but you need not worry about that just yet. I'd run your 16's you'll get much better performance out of those Vs the stock tires. and because they are True Street tires, and thus Have a Hard compound, you will probbably not notice much of a difference in tread wear or performance over the life of the tire. (Some one calculated that on average a Mile of autocross = 50 miles of Street use)

Just to show the difference in wear:
Falken Azenis tread wear = 200 and on the street should last around 10-15,000 miles (One of the guys I autocross with put 8,000 miles on his and they are bald). The Kumho MX is about the equivelent in performance as Azenis and it has a tread wear of 200 too. 711s have a tread wear of 320 and the Top end 712 has a tread wear of 280. So it could be assumed that if you have the 711s you probably will not see that much extra wear, the 712s mighe wear a bit quicker. BUT....... the MX and the Azenis will greatly out perform the 711 and 712 in dry traction, at the cost of longevity. (I droped about a second and a half when I switched from street tires to the Azenis).

Shambler, Ive never heard of nor seen a tire pop off a wheel when autocrossing.
RallyCross Yes, autocross no. Its possible if some one was running excessivly low pressures though.

There is all sorts of info on autocross on the web, and there are a handfull of us 7th geners that do it to, so just ask away.

FattyMcJ

WOW, thanks Zzyzx!!! You guys have been REALLY helpful!

Green Civic

You can practice by setting a few cone out in a parking lot and going around them at different speeds. This will show you the limits of you current setup. When you are at the event, talk to people before the race. Learn some pointers before you even start. And while the race is going on, watch how people are entering and exiting the turn. Watch their braking and accelerating points. You'll be surprised in what you can learn in one race. Thats what happened to me.

If you do real bad the first time, dont worry about it. You just have to ajust from straight to corners. Keep going, that is the only way you will get up to Zzyzx's or boiler's level of driving. So, just be yourself and go to have fun. You wont have fun by getting upset that you last place your first race. I was surprised when I finished that day. It was my first time racing and I placed 7th out of 50 or so novices in h stock.

Zzyzx

My first event....... Dead last in my class. (But I did beat a corvette that day, of course it was his first time too.)

Just keep going, there is no replacemt for seat time. This is one of the few automotive sports where throwing money at the car wont nessisarily make you faster.

Shambler

very cool. Thanks for the tips, could you guys recommend a brand(and make) of tire to go over stock 14" steelies?

Zzyzx

Falken Azenis Sports, in 195/60R14. Its a good Streetable race tire. and I say streetable meaning that on the street they should last about 15,000 miles, but with autocross don't expect to get 10,000 out of them. For me, my 205/50-15's last about one season of usefullness due to heat cycling them to death.

They are cheep to, the 14s can be picked up for as little as $45 each.

EternalVTEC

iTrader: (3)

280 treadwear on the 712? hmm, didnt know that, i have 25,000 miles on my set of 215/45-17s and have about 1 to 2/32 left before the wear bars, now, i dont autocross with them, but i dont granny drive either

Just_Call_Me_J

Did you by some chance compete at the last Autocross in the Dallas area? I think I recall seeing your car there. Did you do well? Was that the last competition of the year?

Do you know where I can find out more about Autocrossing in the future?

Good luck!

robbclark1

iTrader: (8)

like whoa, i go away on vacation and all of a sudden everyone is interested in autocross! Being a noob at Autox too, i think the best money you can spend early on your car is a nice set of sticky tires. If ya can't afford small lightweight rims, then maybe just throw some stickies on your stock rims. The suspension stuff sure helps, but I think you get to be a better driver over time.

Shambler

bitchin, i may have to pickup a set of tires whever my season starts up again around the Sears Point(Infineon Raceway) track...

FattyMcJ

HA!!! So not ALL of my threads are useless!!! I've learned a LOT and I think others have learned a LOT as well. COOL INFO guys!!! Maybe our paths will cross during the summer at some meet sometime...who knows but for all, like me, that are noob's to Autoxing, GOOD LUCK!!! We're gonna need it! lol j/k