ssshassan

Hi everyone, I have been trying to find the issue with my 07 civic starting but can't seem to pin it down.

-First sign of trouble that I noticed, if I put my key into the ignition and then went through accessories 1 and 2 positions and starting rightaway it would not start. (Previosly it was never an issue)
-So I started waiting for the fuel pump to prime before attempting to start the car(when the fuel status bar goes down and then comes up). This would be maybe 5 secs and then the car would start. This worked fine for a month or so.
-Today though, it wouldn't even do that. I was able to start the car 2 or 3 times today, however, seems I had to press on the gas to get it going juust at the right time, otherwise it wont do anything.
-Now that doesnt work either, the car just wont start.
-Now I am not sure what may be causing this. The battery is new, lights, horn, radio, work, just fine. So I am guessing the alternator is fine too.
-My question is how can I tell if it's not an issue with the fuel pump.
-At startup now the dash lights up but I dont hear anything, just a very muffled kind of click. No cranking sound.

Please help, I dont wana have this towed and then the mechanic says to change the starter and fuel pump when probably there is just one thing that's gone bad. It was a little cold today, if that helps.

ezone

I get that it won't start, but that doesn't help me make a very good educated guess since there are like 300 different things that all have to happen before it will run.

The only usable piece of info I got out of that was "very muffled kind of click. No cranking sound", so I'll run with that.
I don't suppose you can post a video of this happening?

First: No, it can't be a fuel pump related problem if the engine doesn't crank. Why would you even think it could be a fuel pump? Nevermind, I can guess why.


What else do you notice?

Do all the dash lights-- go out, dim, or stay bright? I'll assume they stay pretty bright when you turn the key to crank it. Correct me if it does something else.

Can you locate the general area of this CLICK you hear when it won't start? Somewhere on the engine itself, the side of the engine compartment, or does it come from somewhere in the interior of the car?

I'm going to sit here and guess it will be a starter. It would only take like 10 minutes or less to verify if it is really the problem or not, if one knows how the starter system works and has some simple test equipment. I know I would want to be absolutely sure of what the problem was before wasting a bunch of time and money replacing a perfectly good part.
These cars also have ground cable issues from time to time, but all they need is some cleaning. Again, simple tests are needed to figure out if this is even an issue.

If your mechanic wants to replace both the starter AND the fuel pump, he damn well had better be able to prove both are bad. If he can't, then run away and replace your mechanic. HINT: The fuel pump is not the problem here.

How many miles does the car have? US cars have 5/60 powertrain warranty, and that ought to cover the starter (IF that is the problem).

ssshassan

Thanks ezone, I am new to this so maybe wasn't that clear.

I thought it was the fuel pump, because I had to wait for it to prime before it would start and then it would start only with a little tap on the gas pedal. That was before it died completely.

The dash lights do stay bright, no sign of power loss as such.

Just tried to isolate the source of the click. It seems to be from the bottom of the engine block, maybe a bit towards the rear. Hope that helps.

It's a Canadian car, has 170 km on it. Our standard is 5/120km it's over the warranty

Thanks for all your help. Are there any tests one can do to confirm it;s the starter, if one doesn't have too much know how and equipment?

ssshassan

Would you say it's easy to change the starter if I wanted do it on my own. Havn't done any serious manintanence myself before, but am willing to give it a try. Was looking for a TSB, but couldn't find one, on how to replace it.

ezone

"I thought it was the fuel pump, because I had to wait for it to prime before it would start and then it would start only with a little tap on the gas pedal."

So was the starter only clicking this entire time?


"Just tried to isolate the source of the click. It seems to be from the bottom of the engine block, maybe a bit towards the rear. Hope that helps."

That's exactly where the starter lives. Back of the engine block, and the intake manifold kinda wraps around it.

The click (it's actually a rather heavy KLUNK I bet) is the solenoid of the starter engaging, but not closing the contacts to operate the starter motor. (My guess.)

"Are there any tests one can do to confirm it;s the starter, if one doesn't have too much know how and equipment?"

Maybe. I have no idea what your abilities are or what tooling you have available to you.

It is probably safe to assume the starter is bad, but I always test (because I diagnose for a living and I hate looking like an idiot after telling a customer they need to spend $$$ to fix something).

I have 3 ideas. Simplest first.

First idea: Climb under it with a small hammer, and maybe a block of wood or an extension of some sort for banging purposes. Have someone crank it and hold the key in the cranking position. (Don't do this longer than like 20 seconds at a time.) Knock on the starter at the same time, may take many many beatings. If it cranks even once, replace the starter. Don't hit it hard enough to bend anything, the starter can be damaged easily. Use the wood to dampen the blows (because I have no idea if you have any "mechanics sense" about swinging a hammer). The idea is to jar the bad contacts in the solenoid so the starter motor turns on.


The second idea: Find the single wire connector attached to the drivers side strut tower near the brake reservoir, it should have a fat 12ga black/white wire on the side you can see, and red wire on the obscured side. Disconnect it, stick a jumper wire into the blk/wht side (it needs to fit properly so you don't damage the terminal), and tap the end of the jumper to a battery positive repeatedly. The starter should click as is now usual when you turn the key, but eventually it may try to crank. It could take a hundred taps before it does, if it even can. If it engages and cranks even once while doing this, then all the connections on the battery pos cable to starter are probably good, and grounds are probably good.

Tap tests are usually perfectly valid tests, but once in a while they can lead you astray.

Those both assume there might have been just a little bit of life left, one last desperate crank to be had....
If no joy with either of those........

Got a 12v test light? Connect the clip to a good ground (battery neg) and touch the probe to the stud and nut (preferably right on the stud) that the battery cable attaches to on the starter.

Have someone try to crank the engine so the starter will click. If the light remains ON brightly (and the click is actually coming from the starter), then the available battery power for the motor section is fine.
(If the light went out, then you have connection problems in the positive cable between the battery and starter.)

While under there, attach the test light clip to the nut and stud in the pic above (or move it to the pos battery cable), and touch the probe to the housing of the starter, or engine block, or any clean steel or aluminum on the block or trans, and have someone crank it again. If the light dims significantly or goes out, the engine and trans have bad grounds that need cleaned up or fixed. (Also somewhat common, and probably a good idea to do anyway since you are in Canada.)




TSBs only address known issues, they are not repair manuals. You need a shop/service manual for repairs.
'06 thru '11 are all the same here, except for the SI....The How-To:
http://www.2carpros.com/questions/ho...is-the-starter



Hope that helps.
Merry freekin' Christmas, huh?

ssshassan

When I was waiting for the fuel pump to prime and the gas gauge bars to go down and come back again and then start, it would start fine. If I didn't wait it would kind of start halfway but then never actually start. No clicking sound. The clicking sound just started now, so I am assuming it was slowly dying and then just totally died.

The click is infact a very soft one, not a klunk at all.

I will now try to get on the diagnostics, don't have much equipment and expertise but will try and see what I can do.

Thanks very much eh, yeah these kinda things have to happen on the holidays

Will report back.

ezone

Not sure what to think about this without seeing it myself.

You are 100% positive the battery is fully charged? A weak battery can still light up the lights but not have enough power to crank the engine.

But it comes from the starter itself, correct? Make sure of this. You could use the test light in the connector in step 2 to make sure the ignition switch power is getting into the engine compartment, it connects to the small terminal on the starter.


I could do it with a #194 light bulb and some wire (I have had to improvise on the side of the road before), but if it isn't a bad starter, then I would probably need more tools.

YW, I can't do much from here though.

Edited a few times, make sure you read the final version.

ssshassan

Got busy with holiday stuff, so couldn't get to it. I was hoping to swap out the starters if it's easy enough to see if that fixes the problem.

However, in this particular Civic seems you have to get underneath the car and remove part of the exhaust system. Am not sure I would be comfortable doing that.

Was hoping that I cold do it myself, as currently it would involve paying to have it towed and then the shop as well.

I have never done much work on a car, except for the odd light bulb change etc..

Would you say it's ok to try this or just leave it for the shop...

ezone

That is totally up to you and your comfort level.

If all you have ever done is replace light bulbs and you need your wheels right away, this may not be the time to start learning.
A pro should be able to get it changed in an hour and a half. (Unless there is rust issues!)
If you have a lot of rust on the exhaust hardware, you might need a torch.

I DIY everything, but I make my living doing this stuff.
I started learning with a broken car, no money, and plenty of time.