gunbunny119

hello everyone,

I'm working on a friend's civic and was hoping I could refer to you guys for some advice.

It's an 01 Civic EX. It died quite suddenly with no attempt at firing. It cranks, but not even a sputter...just spins forever. I pulled the first plug and confirmed it has a strong spark. Pulled the air cleaner and sprayed ether into it and it didn't even sputter. Pulled the upper timing cover and noticed about 5 teeth had been burned off the belt. Just replaced the timing belt following Mitchell instructions to the letter, put everything back together and it is doing the exact same thing. I checked all the fuses and everything seems good. Still gets spark. I noticed that I do not hear the fuel pump prime, so I'm still stuck at fuel delivery problems as a possible cause. I didn't personally spray the ether into the TB (my business partner did), but wouldn't it have at least sputter if there were fuel delivery issues when something is sprayed in there?

I'm going to get back to it tomorrow and try the starter fluid again and see what happens. After that, I may follow Mitchell and go through all the fuel delivery relays and circuits. Otherwise, I'm at a total loss.

Any suggesions?

Thanks to all in advance for your help

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

So you own a shop and cant fix a car you got on your hands?

Hows the timing? The marks to get TDC is a little confusing at first- people get them wrong all the time. Any CEL's being thrown? How about plugs 3-4, they sparking and not wet?

I never done this, but I guess you could pull the injectors and fuel rail out and try to start it to test the fuel easily. Sounds dangerous but you'd know if the fuel system is working. Must be the timing if you got fuel and spark.. compression test?

gunbunny119

"So you own a shop and cant fix a car you got on your hands?"

Not an auto repair shop. My partner is a body man and I do powdercoating. We're just helping a customer/friend out. Never claimed to be an auto repair professional. Just a regular guy with average automotive knowledge who's helping a guy out.

Haven't done the compression test yet, but I'll knock it out tomorrow and let you know what kind of numbers I'm getting. No codes are coming up.

So the timing marks are tricky? Didn't realize this was a problem with Hondas. I followed our Mitchell software to the T. Lined up the crankshaft timing sprocket with the arrow, matched the camshaft timing marks with the top of head, making sure the "UP" stamp was on top. To the best of my knowledge, I seem to have done everything properly. However...I'm no expert, so I won't say I couldn't have made a mistake. Do you think there's something I missed or maybe could have done differently? To line up the cam sprocket, I laid a putty knife against the top of the head to be sure the marks were lined up since I was looking down on it.

I'll hold off before I try the injector test, but I never thought to have a look at the other plugs for fire. I'm used to just trying #1 and leaving it at that.

Thanks for the advice.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Its all good.

Dont know what this "Mitchell software" is, but I guess its something shops use? Can I download that for personal use somewhere?

I'd do the compression test... what made the friend bring the car to you in the first place, like did they just go out and it didnt start one day, or did they try to do an install and it completely failed? Something must have triggered this.

Battery has good juice too right? I'm assuming starter is good?

gunbunny119

The software I'm referring to is Mitchell on Demand....Auto repair software, but man it's expensive. I'm a gearhead but I was brought up on American muscle. If it's front wheel drive or transverse mounted, I'm a fish out of water. This customer/buddy of ours we've done other work for and his car actually died in our parking lot. He had just finishing "servicing" it (ie plugs, fluid changes, etc.) He said it ran beautifully after he had finished it, he drove down the street to gas it up and when he brought it back it died in our lot.

battery and starter are good. Engine will crank all day, it's just dead. I figure once I get some numbers on that compression check I'll know a lot more. Man, I really hope I didn't make a mistake on that timing belt, but I'd swear it I did it right. Who knows.

lazlong

Do a compression test. Bent valves may be the cause since it was the timing belt. I THINK compression should be around 120 +/-10.

The Mitchells data is fine, I've seen that exact page.

@TRIZ: If your doing troubleshooting or need electrical diagrams (like the whole harness instead of one circuit at a time) then Mitchells is far, far superior to Alldata (it's also hella more expensive).

gunbunny119

Hey lazlong, let's say I didn't have the cam sprocket lined up just perfectly and ended up 1 tooth off. That would stop it from starting, wouldn't it? I'm really hoping it's not as simple as the belt being 1 tooth off, then I'd be pretty embarassed. I'll also get a timing light and see if the spark on #1 matches the timing notch on the balancer. I remember that right on the TDC marks I felt a lot of resistance and it either wanted to go one way or the other. Considering the spark plugs were all out, it may be indicative of bent valves.

Yeah, we got a killer deal on the Mitchell software. Bought it from a shop that was closing down. Got the 2nd quarter 2010 set with all DVDs. I hear that set is about 10k, but I'm not sure. I'm just glad to have gotten it for a fraction of that.

I'd be happy to print down any procedures or diagrams for anyone that needs them. You guys have already been a great help, so it's the least I can do.

lazlong

I'm not certain but, I think with this engine it won't run being 1 tooth off.

gorkybolanos

Hi guys, I hope this helps someone. I have a 2001 Civic EX Coupe automatic with 167000 miles. Everything began when I started having the intermittent overheating issue. I did the head gasket job, during this procedure I replaced the following parts: timing belt, all gaskets, timing belt tensioner, water pump, had the head milled, thermostat, fan switch sensor, temperature sensor and transmission motor mount. After this, the car started right up but it was running rough. The solution to that was a vacuum hose I had left unplugged, the reason I didn't see it was because it is located underneath the intake manifold. After I fixed that my wife drove the car for a couple days and suddenly on her way to work one morning the car shut off and wouldn't start. The car kept cranking over forever until the battery would die but it would not start. After I towed it home, I checked everything I had done, my first thought was that it might have jumped time or something, I then noticed the bolt that holds the timing belt tensioner wasn't tight enough. It turns out the threads on the engine block were stripped. I thought this was the issue so I put it a hellicoil and re-installed everything. I timed it perfectly, the tensioner was properly installed and the bolt tighten to 30+ lbs. The car still would crank but no start. I took the starter, battery and alternator to Pepboys and Autozone and had them tested, the alternator and battery tested bad. I replaced them both, I re-installed everything but the car still wouldn't start. I checked for fuel, fuel pressure, ecm, spark, etc...everything checked out fine. I finally started unplugging every single sensor and sprayed contact cleaner and plugged them all back up...but still nothing. While looking at the crank position sensor (the one by the crank pulley) I noticed that the timing belt drive pulley at the crank (not the actual big crank pulley) had a broken tooth. I must have bent or hit this tooth while doing the timing belt job the first time and while my wife was driving it finally just broke off, the magnet on the crank position sensor was not reading the revolutions of the pulley right since the tooth was missing. I ordered the timing belt drive crank pulley from Majestic Honda for $13, installed it, put everything back together and the car started right up. I am sorry this post is so long but I just wanted to write in detail everything I did (including what I did wrong) I figured it might help someone. This forum helped me a lot through everything I had to do before I could fix my car.