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7th Gen In the years from 2001 to 2005 Honda released it's 7th Generation Civic. Chassis codes: EM2, ES1, EP3, EU1

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Old 08-04-2009   #1
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8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

One thing for sure with the goal in this project and that is to make my car unique.

I am going to take the attached photos into photoshop and try to create how I plan on having the dash made. If anyone else wants to take a shot at it to show me your ideas that would be awesome as well!

Speedfoos has been helpful enough to get me the Circuit Diagram for the 8thgen but as far as being able to tell what all the pins on the back of the cluster would do I can not figure out too well. I am just starting my engineering major this year so I am winging all of this and getting help from a friend.

For the majority it seems like kinda simple, I am hoping that not much really changed between the two as far as Tach,Turn Signa, warning lights, ect goes. The only thing I can see needing done is a multiplier for the digital speedo because I know thats whats needed to make the s2000 cluster work(everything else on the s2000 hooks right up without anything else needed). I do think the 8th gen civics have a smaller tank? My google search came up with 13.2 and I think 7th gens are 14 so I might have to do some work on the signal going into the cluster to make it accurate.

Comments tho? Am I crazy? This is just going to be one of those little ongoing projects for me since I am studyin to be a Computer Engineer..I learn things a whole lot better when I am actually applyin them to things I like and since I really wanted the new civics because of the whole layout of the instruments then this seems like a great idea.

Also due to how much the radio section sticks out on a 8th gen, there really isn't a way to make that fit in my car so I only plan to have the instruments molded into my dash.(Wish I could do the steering wheel too but I am not going to mess with the airbag)
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Old 08-04-2009   #2
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

First things first... measure! If its small it will look funny, too large you better make it look nice as you could always make little plates so you dont see the edges...

If it fits just right then I guess it could look nice though I have my doubts.
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Old 08-04-2009   #3
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

i've been waiting for some one to do this. imight be intetrested in this if it turns out good.

what i'd like to see more is if some one caould de-network all the signals and make a bezel/bracket so we could swap in the S2000 clusters.
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Old 08-05-2009   #4
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Interesting project. Wish I knew how to do it.
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Old 08-05-2009   #5
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

I am having trouble finding the pinout sheet for the newer civics. I have the Circuit Diagram for it but its really funky and it is not detailed enough to explain what they do. If anyone has any ideas on this that would be great.

Die, I know someone on another forums swapped a S2000 Cluster into a RSX. Since I know that we can swap a RSX cluster in our car I would assume that it means the S2000 would work on our car with the same setup. Gotta google it tho cause I don't exactly remember where I saw it at.
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Old 08-05-2009   #6
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

The only problem I can see is that the 8th gen dash is way wider then 7th gen. May look kinda weird with them right on top of each other instead of off set. Best of luck if you can do it I think it will look sweet
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Old 08-05-2009   #7
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Yikes... This looks like it could be tricky best of luck!
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Old 08-05-2009   #8
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Yeah I'm going to have to have the Speedo basically touching the windshield to try to keep the offset as large as possible.
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Old 08-06-2009   #9
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

If you do this, you had better DIY the crap out of it, cause that would be tight!!!
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Old 08-10-2009   #10
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Def. Will do. Hell once I figure out everything I could make a simple board where you just plug the old harness into it and then the new one into the new cluster.(For those who would want it) As far as making the dash for it you would be on your own or you would just have to hit up the person I am going to have make mine.

I havn't purchased the new civic cluster yet just because I still cant find the freaking pinouts.
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Old 08-11-2009   #11
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Yay finally got the pinouts from over at 8thcivic.com

1 Gray DATA to Tach
4 Black Ground
5 Brown No 10 fuse under Dash
6 White No 23 fuse under Dash
7 Light Green DATA to Tach
11 Blue MICU (L Turn Signal)
12 Green MICU (R Turn Signal)

The lower unit containing everything else, has a 36 pin input, pinout as follows:

1 White FCAN to ECM/PCM, ABS/VSA, SRS, DATA Link, EPS, TPMS
2 Gray to upper unit
4 brown to dash brightness control -
5 yellow to dash brightness control +
6 blue to dash brightness sel/res
7 purple to dash brightness mph/kph
8 blue washer fluid level switch (not used USDM)
9 Yellow cruise control main switch
10 Lt green cruise control set/resume/cancel switch
11 orange cruise control set/resume/cancel switch
13 red ambient light, seat heater switches
14 red hazard warning light, heater control panel, hvac, audio, at gear position, moonroof, dash brightness
15 black ground
16 black ground
17 Brown to underdash fuse box
18 white to underdash fuse box
19 Red FCAN Same as #1
20 Lt Green to Upper unit
21 Pink BCAN Immobilizer/MICU
27 Green brake fluid level switch (closed = float down)
28 lt green parking brake switch (closed = engaged)
29 shown as in use, but not shown on diagram
30 Yellow Outside Air temp sensor
31 Blue Outside air temp sensor
32 Purple fuel gauge sending unit
33 orange fuel gauge sending unit


Seems that for some of the things in this cluster it might be easier to pop the back off and bypass everything straight to the indicator light.

Honestly the only trouble I see it figuring out how to make the tach,speedo, and fuel and temp gauge work. Much easier than I thought it would be. One of my more fav options is the temp sensor that I didn't think I have a chance in the world at makin work and its simply pin 30&31, all I gotta do is purchase the sensor and hook it up

Now I just gotta figure out what all is being sent on the data lines.
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Old 08-15-2009   #12
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

the problem with these newer cars. (7th and 8th gens) and all 2001 up cars in general is that with computers controling evreyting in the car it makes more since for the manufacturs to add some more code to the firmwares (code that makes a computer run in a car) and have them talk to each other over a CAN (controled area network) (similar to a LAN netork in a bussness mith multipul computers taking to each other) rather than sending descrete wires to 2-3-4 locations. this also make the cars lighter as your sending ~ 6 wires vs (for a cluster) > 40 wires.

bottom line is the #1 and #19 are that network. thats why u dont see the basic CEL or battery or oil lights etc. they proaly go to the ECU and get sent over a data network to the cluster.

bottom line for joe q tinker is u cant swap parts unless u can reprogram the computers (in your case send 8th gen instructions the 8th gen cluster understands from your 7th gen computer) OR create a interpriter box that translates the comands. these are not something that u can do in a weekend. a software engere might if he had the comands etc.

EDIT: when i read the post for the first time i had a gut feeling this would happen.
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Old 08-15-2009   #13
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

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the problem with these newer cars. (7th and 8th gens) and all 2001 up cars in general is that with computers controling evreyting in the car it makes more since for the manufacturs to add some more code to the firmwares (code that makes a computer run in a car) and have them talk to each other over a CAN (controled area network) (similar to a LAN netork in a bussness mith multipul computers taking to each other) rather than sending descrete wires to 2-3-4 locations. this also make the cars lighter as your sending ~ 6 wires vs (for a cluster) > 40 wires.

bottom line is the #1 and #19 are that network. thats why u dont see the basic CEL or battery or oil lights etc. they proaly go to the ECU and get sent over a data network to the cluster.

bottom line for joe q tinker is u cant swap parts unless u can reprogram the computers (in your case send 8th gen instructions the 8th gen cluster understands from your 7th gen computer) OR create a interpriter box that translates the comands. these are not something that u can do in a weekend. a software engere might if he had the comands etc.

EDIT: when i read the post for the first time i had a gut feeling this would happen.
Question is, is this information going to be in the electrical manual or is it one of those topics thats just never discussed because honda doesn't want you knowing that type of information. For all the indicator lights which most seem to be on the pinouts, I wouldn't see a problem opening the cluster up and running it straight too the indicator light but I am not sure if when I turn that indicator on if the wire is sending a voltage to the cluster or just grounding that line? I am going to have plenty of engineers in my dorm for assistance I am sure of to help me with this project. Don't worry I don't expect this project to have any type of major breakthrough for several several months.
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Old 08-16-2009   #14
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

no honda dosennt relese that information. like the $20K code reader that dealers and some car shops have. 90% of that cost is the actual "codes" information from honda. it's not somitng the avrage joe can get or afford.

HOWEVER the newer shematics have (for ex a cluster) a drawing of whats inside instead of a box with wires going to it. so, again for ex., u can see what is needed to get the turnsignals working.

i know that the 7th gens use a network like this. so the trunk, battery, seatbelt, and some other things like the coolent gauge come from the network. this is where that interpriter would come into play.

EDIT. if your going for the digital look. i'd look into S2000 or first gen insight clusters. they should be descrte inputs. even the 7th gen hybrid cluster is 1/3 digital but again it dosent get the corect codes thus inoperitive.

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Old 08-17-2009   #15
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

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no honda dosennt relese that information. like the $20K code reader that dealers and some car shops have. 90% of that cost is the actual "codes" information from honda. it's not somitng the avrage joe can get or afford.

HOWEVER the newer shematics have (for ex a cluster) a drawing of whats inside instead of a box with wires going to it. so, again for ex., u can see what is needed to get the turnsignals working.

i know that the 7th gens use a network like this. so the trunk, battery, seatbelt, and some other things like the coolent gauge come from the network. this is where that interpriter would come into play.

EDIT. if your going for the digital look. i'd look into S2000 or first gen insight clusters. they should be descrte inputs. even the 7th gen hybrid cluster is 1/3 digital but again it dosent get the corect codes thus inoperitive.
There was a guy that swapped the hybrid clocks into his 7th gen, he said it was just re-wiring no interpritter needed or out.
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Old 08-17-2009   #16
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Afaik, you can swap the hybrid cluster in and everything will work except Temp, Battery, and I think the other one is the charging.
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Old 08-24-2009   #17
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Food for thought here. What if I ran the newer civic ECU with the harness for the dash along with my cars. Just feed the newer civics ecu with power and split my vss, fuel, ect lines into it and let it do the work for me. I know nothing about the cars ECU so I am not sure if that would even have a change at working assuming they change the sensors and such for each engine but I wouldn't assume it would be too much different. Its just a thought tho. Assuming that this could possibly work any differences in the gauges could just be adjusted by intercepting the lines before they go into the ecu.
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Old 08-24-2009   #18
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Why not just swap a k20z3 or z1 or whatever motor comes out of the new Si along with the ecu, engine and dash wiring harness.
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Old 08-24-2009   #19
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

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Why not just swap a k20z3 or z1 or whatever motor comes out of the new Si along with the ecu, engine and dash wiring harness.
Not sure if your trying to be cute or serious? Trust me that Idea rocks and if I had the money I would do it.... but college wouldn't have such a thing.
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Old 08-24-2009   #20
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Kind of both honestly man. What you are trying to do is cool and all, but I don't see the wiring being worth it. If you are doing the engine swap, it's a nice extra touch, but not a lot of crazy wiring is really involved. The way you are doing it is a huge electrical nightmare without the cool engine to go with it. Now you are talking about running two separate ECUs just for a gauge cluster. Is it really worth it? I don't mean to be a hater or anything, it just seems like you need to take a step back and reconsider.
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Old 08-24-2009   #21
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

I'm just trying to think outside the box. Its just my geeky side coming out of me, like I've stated before my career will be based around circuits and programming so I just in general love doing stuff like this. If I had the money I would do exactly as you mentioned but right now I don't, but a stock ecu can be picked up on ebay for around $150. I take no offense I know what you mean, maybe if I don't get this project rolling till next summer I might be able to get a good deal on a k20 and then swap everything at once. As far as my original plan goes, there is no way for me to figure out that network so that option is out the window. I just feel this way could work.
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Old 08-25-2009   #22
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Now this is for a RSX K20 because it has 5 connectors instead of 3 Big ones but from looking at all the pins, almost every wire seems to just be reading a voltage between 0 and 12volts and the computer takes care of the rest.

http://k20a.org/forum/showthread.php...ghlight=pinout
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Old 08-26-2009   #23
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

Gear or Speedfoo think you could hook me up with the 06 SI ECU pinout sheet if you think this way might work.
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Old 09-27-2009   #24
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Re: 8th Gen Cluster Swap in 7th Gen - The Project

4Week bump, if anyone might be able to hook me up with the civic si ecu diagram that would be awesome! Thanks.
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Old 09-27-2009
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