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I know there are tons of threads on this site regarding overheating and the like.
But please hear me out. I've read through all those posts and can never come to a solid conclusion on what my issue may be.

To start. The car is a 2004 LX with 180k miles on it. I got it about 6 months ago from my mother in law with 160k.

When i got the car, it had been sitting for about a year because she got into a decent accident and wasn't driving anymore. Needed a new battery, oil change, 02 sensor, and it was overheating. And It was BAD. From turning the car on, it was redlining in under ten minutes. First thought was to replace the thermostat. That helped, a little. We ( my father and I) tore the whole thing down to replace the water pump thinking that was due since it had 160k and sat for so long. After getting to the Pulley wheel and that treacherous bolt, we were about to quit. My uncle came over and suggested that the system may just be plugged and to put it back together and flush it. Well... We did and it worked great. I had heat in the cabin and i was no longer over heating.

roughly 3 weeks after that, it started to over heat again. I flushed it and it was good. About every week or two for 2 months it would over heat, and i would just top it off with a little water and that would do the trick.

I got fed up with having to constantly topping it off, and attributed the fact that I was running water, it was evaporating. I flushed it once more and filled it with 50/50. This worked for about 3 months.

So that leaves us with a months time left. Well, over the last month it has been over heating again, but its sporadic. It typically will happen when sitting at a light, or in a drivethru, and it would not go past 3/4. The needle will sit at just under half. Bobble quickly over half. Sit for a few minutes, then jump again to 3/4. Remaining there until it went back under half and repeated the process. Now, this doesn't always happen. Sometimes ill have this in the morning at my first stop light going to work, other times ill have to drive in city traffic for an hour or two before it will. You never know when its going to decide to behave or not.

Now my biggest issue is this morning, it started to over heat WHILE DRIVING to work. sitting at a light it would cool down, and only heat while moving. Complete polar opposite of what it was before. Also, i noticed the heat was not working again, and would only work once i got over 40mph.

I dont THINK its the head since im not burning anything, and have great looking oil at all my changes, one being just last week. I replaced the thermostat, flushed the system 8 times, and it comes and goes when it wants.

Oh, and also. Within the last week, maybe less. the car will start with a low idle chug if its been cooled. Running into a store and back out i'm good. But in the morning, or after visiting family for a few hours ill start the car and it will chug a bit around 700 rpm then even it self out to 1k-1100 and be nice and smooth. This is somewhat leading me to thing its the coolant temp sensor. Seeing as my old saturn has similar problems and that fixed it when replacing the entire cooling system (rad, water pump, thermo) didn't.

I have very little money to put into her, but want to keep her going.
My wife has suggested just cutting our losses and selling it but being my first Honda, I love it and want to make it last if i can.

So, if anyone has any suggestions. PLEASE HELP. Also, anything that can be done with limited tools in a parking lot would be great. I'm currently at work
and don't know how comfortable i am attempting to drive her home at the end of the day.

 
Rep Power: 518

See if the radiator fans run properly with coolant temp.

Then......probably head gasket job, and measure for warped head surface.

If you have to drive it home, make sure the radiator is full before you run it.
Refill it every time you run it.

 
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Okay. So I went to check my coolant and it was a bit low. I turned the car on, ran the heat full and put some coolant i had in case of emergencies directly into the rad. it swirled, so im sure the pump is working. it took somewhere around 16oz's. Drove it around for about half an hour and it didn't seem to really over heat. It got just 1 tick above half but nothing major after that. And i also had heat more often than not. When i took the rad cap off i saw this on the cap, and in the spout. It was pasty and somewhat grainy, slightly sticky as well.

 
Rep Power: 518

That's ugly.
Assuming the engine has had our ordinary normal green or blue coolant in it..
....It's been HOT. That sand-like stuff is antifreeze that has had the water boiled out of it.




You'd get similar looking stuff if you had a GM with Dexcool that has been run low and exposed to air in the radiator. Even without being hot.

But I'm assuming you had normal coolant in yours, so that's very bad.
I'd begin looking for leakage between the cylinders and water jacket. Head gasket blown.

 
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Thanks for the quick response! That sucks as well if you're saying it's definitively the head gasket. I've been fearing that, just didn't want to accept it.

I have seen that stuff in there before, but in very trace amounts. this was the first time it had that much.

Also, would you mind explaining the water jacket portion? How would I test for leakage, and where is it?

 
Rep Power: 518

Can't tell you it's bad for certain without checking it out, but it's probably bad....

Head gasket is easy for me to prove here in the shop, if it is bad.....in well under the 1 hour standard checkout time allotted.

I roll a cylinder to TDC, put a "funnel-fill" funnel on the radiator neck, apply 170+PSI shop air line pressure to that cylinder, and watch for the coolant level to rise. Check all 4 cylinders this way. If any cause the liquid level to rise, it's a problem.

Here's another way to check, see the video in this post here: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ml#post4629441
It will tell you the problem is there, but you can't tell which cylinder(s) have the problem.


"Water jacket" is the coolant chamber that surrounds the cylinders in the block. A breach in the head gasket typically allows combustion pressure to leak into the cooling system.
It can also allow coolant to enter a cylinder after you shut the engine off, and wet the spark plug when you start the engine. Misfires when you start it up until the plug gets dried off.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 518

Water jacket, you can see it on this brand new block

 
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Alright, so if i'm understand correctly (sorry for my lack of knowledge)


This is the water jacket? It surrounds the cylinders and cools them. The head gasket which would lay over the top of all of that is blown, causing coolant to rise over the top and flow into the cylinders?

If i do the test in the video on that page (will be the easiest) and i get bubbles, that should be enough to warrant taking the whole head apart and replacing the gasket?

if i can deff prove its the head gasket i will get some shop buddys to help me do the work.

I just don't want to arrange for this large of a job if i can't prove thats it.

I hope i understood right!

 
Rep Power: 518

Arrow is correct. (I'm too lazy to do MSpaint and reupload at work LOL)

Not quite. You are only seeing half of the picture there, the head isn't in place.
Cylinders completely submerged in coolant all the time there is more like it, coolant is not only surrounding the cylinders but also flowing through the cylinder head.
Cast aluminum and steel are pretty stout, reliable, and rarely fail (until a severe overheat), and the head gasket is the (consumable) item that is supposed to maintain a seal between the:

cylinder and combustion chamber (block and head),
that mess is separated from the coolant,
all the above are separated from the crankcase passages,
and all the above are separated from oil pressure passages.
AND all the above must stay sealed between the block and head.

So that gasket has a lot of different things to do.
Some designs might incorporate even more areas that are sealed and separated.

AND I bet the cylinder head in yours is warped from the overheat event. It doesn't take much to do it, and a fresh head gasket will fail right away if the head is not perfectly flat.
If you take it apart: Have a machine shop measure the head for flatness once it is apart, I think .002" is the max it can be warped.



Ummmm......the neck in the radiator could be eroded from steam too, it could have damaged the seal surface (raised plastic ring area in the neck) where the smaller rubber disc on the bottom of the cap has to maintain a pressure seal. If it did, then the radiator and cap needs replaced.


Coolant must be completely full and "burped" of air pockets.
I like to jump the radiator fan switch so it runs constantly for the duration of the test. (To make sure the coolant doesn't overheat and boil, because that would give you false bubbles.)

If the cooling system is completely burped, yet when you do the test you keep seeing bubbles coming up and they don't quit (as in the video), then yes the head gasket is the most likely cause.

In the video it bubbled a lot more when he revs the engine up. You might need to do the same. It may take a while too, since the pressure in the cooling system must build high enough to vent past the radiator pressure cap.

If you don't get results that way, you could have someone power brake it for a few seconds (5 sec max), that raises combustion pressure quite a bit and can help show leakage.

 
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I'm writing this as I'm on the road. Not literally I pulled over first. I left work and put more coolant in. No heat at first until I was driving. Drove roughly ten miles without the needle moving past three ticks under half. I stopped for ten minutes and it still never rose and the heat stayed on. Would you still say its the head or should I try a flush again and possibly a heater core ?

 
Rep Power: 518

I'm betting it overheats when the radiator is low on coolant.....which is to be expected. Keep it full.

Lack of heat (jeez, you need heat already?) as you described is usually because of air trapped in the heater core and tubing, the "bubble" hinders the flow of coolant......... heat comes back when coolant can circulate again (high RPM forces coolant through at a higher pressure). You refilling the radiator and driving it probably worked most of the trapped air out of the heater system.
Again, caused by low coolant level, and again, this is one of several typical symptoms of a head gasket failure.


I can't tell you your heater core is good or bad.....but I bet it's fine. (Evidenced by you saying you still have decent heat here.)
We have not replaced a single heater core in any 7th gen car here in this shop I work in, in the 10 years I have been employed here (Honda dealer).
Probably 95% of the heat complaints here have been related to linkage, servos, and coolant.

Just prove there is a head gasket failure, and if you can prove it fix it.

And fix the collateral damage, like the grainy stuff in the radiator---- you might pull the hoses off and flush that out good with a garden hose (IF the radiator is still ok, like I mentioned earlier).

 
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I figured that the overheating what caused by the lack of coolant (after realizing how low it was). I just had no idea where it was going why i was losing coolant to begin with. And yeah, haha, i needed heat yesterday morning, it got pretty chilly here in NY. I then ran the heat after just to see how long it would stay on for. That, and when i lose heat, ill notice it start to over heat.

I'm going to try to get over to my fathers today so we can test the head gasket. I'd like to be able to lick this problem now before the winter comes around.

 
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I haven't been able to work on the car yet, most likely going to get to is this weekend as long as the weather permits.

I've started a new thread about misfire codes that are showing now if anyone has any ideas!

I love(d) this car. She's really starting to disappoint me