Rep Power: 0

Hi all,

I need your expert 'eye' in the lower ball joint picture.

Try to make a long story short, my daughter got tapped by a lady pulling out of a parking spot. She just backed out and tapped the front bumper (see pic). She said it happened so fast, daughter put on the brake, lady backed up into her (she said it pushed her back about a foot) with her brake on. This collision happened in early Late Sept '12. I think.

Anyhow, the lady admitted fault, her insurance was going to take care of the bumper, but daughter complained about wierd noises and vibration with the right wheel area front. So I took it into my mechanic (Nov 7 '12) to diagnose and estimate, and he said, from the est..., there's "Right front wheel speed sensor fault" and "ABS/VSA Control unit failure.

"Recommend/Replace Rt./Ft. Wheel speed sensor $185 parts/labor"
"Recommend/Replace ABS Control Unit- est $250 parts / labor"
"When the Rt. Frt wheel was removed, we found damage to the axle and LOWER BALL JOINT. Est. to replace rt.axle$225 parts/labor"

** SO I asked my mechanic is this caused from the accident, he said possibly.

Now the Insurance Adjuster went to the shop to inspect the collision and she said they will take care of the bumper, but all else with the front wheel/susp is normal wear and tear, and they denied that part of the claim.

OK, so.... I found a receipt / invoice, from the same mechanic 9-25-2012, that stated: "*Check fr. suspension and advise on loose ball joint* ...Labor- Remove right steering knuckle and REPLACE WORN-OUT LOWER BALL JOINT" $156 --- NEW BALL JOINT $38.26.

This is strange to me, so today finally, the adjuster from the other ins. company sent me the photo's.

Does this look like a new ball joint? Could it have look that 'old and dirty' since only 2 month? It looks like it never has been replaced.

I do not want to badmouth anyone, since I'm not 100% sure what is really going on, but the pictures and facts are the only thing I have to base it on? Does it look like any work has been done to this area that I paid for 9/25? or is the adjuster wrong and that the problems are related to the front end damage?

Thanks in advance-

'hole' from bumper damage/pics from Insurance Adjuster:

 
Rep Power: 518

**I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on T.V.**

IMHO
Long story short, the mechanic that did this work owes you a steering knuckle with the ball joint complete, a plus all collateral damage that occurred when his installation failed (axle, speed sensor if necessary) whatever it takes to restore a properly operating car as per the reasonable expectation of the original repair rendered above.
IMHO
I really don't give a rats azz if it is within his warranty or not, this appears to be a faulty repair. (Most decent shops give at least a written 12/12 warranty.)
And IMHO potentially dangerous enough to cause him to be the star attraction of a huge lawsuit had someone been injured or killed because of this failure.

IMHO
If the ball joint popped loose like that, that means the knuckle was too worn to accept a new ball joint AND/OR an aftermarket joint was used.
His price for the ball joint is a bit less than MSRP for factory parts. That tells me he used aftermarket parts.
IMHO
The knuckle probably should have been replaced at that time, and it comes with the ball joint already installed (factory parts).




This bulletin explains the criteria for either replacing a ball joint or replacing the knuckle when using factory parts.
It can only be done a maximum of one time, if it can be done at all.
It explains how to check the knuckle to see if the new joint can be safely installed.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...fb5yZAC3SLNeFw

Note that OEM parts can differ from aftermarket parts. The "OS" mentioned in the bulletin stands for OVERSIZE. The factory replacement joint is slightly larger to ensure a sufficiently tight fit in the knuckle.

IMHO
I'm betting your mechanic didn't follow this bulletin at all.
This information bulletin I linked above is available to shops, it is listed in Alldata.




I know it would be a "loooong day" at our shop if this happened and one of us did the job.



Something to think about:

"Our original bid will stand, and it will not taste good. Schitt sandwich never does but we will have a glass of integrity to wash it down with."

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the reply,

From looking at those pictures the insurance adjuster took, does that lower ball joint look 'new' as I had paid for on sept 25? It looks as if it never was changed?

and adjuster said it 'normal wear and tear', which makes me think the ball joint was never replaced?

 
Rep Power: 518

Can't discern that from where I sit. I can't see enough to make that call solely from the clean or dirty appearance of the parts.

But.

Since it separated in the splined area which is supposed to be an interference fit and a press operation to assemble it, I MUST assume this is not the original ball joint.

I have never seen an original joint separate from the knuckle the way this did.

That joint was replaced IMO.
You paid for it, the mechanic did it.
It is now a failure.
The failure needs to be resolved.
This SHOULD be the responsibility of the mechanic/shop that did the work.
The "accident" is not the reason the joint separated from the knuckle, the reason it separated is poor workmanship as I explained in the previous post.
The claims adjusters statement that it is "normal wear and tear" is also quite incorrect IMHO, but nonetheless it is still not the responsibility of the insurance company. It is the responsibility of the mechanic/shop that did the work.

IMHO: Bull. Butter.
This is installation failure.


Again, I am not a lawyer.
My opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.
HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks ezone for the reply, do not worry about your opinion as other's say differently already about the situation, but 'others' have mention about the faulty repair. I'm just gathering all info I get from this situation.

...Yesterday, insurance co. said it's final, they are not responsible for that damage.

The mechanic said and defended his position, even about the ring/clip? I'm going to print out the pdf and let him see it today about the OS stamp/knuckle replacement...

need to mention, during the sept 25 install, I had the wheel aligned also, and this leads me to believe the part was replaced as that's why we had the ball joint taken care of in the first place, was that it needs alignment.

I'm lost here now. Don't know if it's the mechanic faulty repair with the installation, if there was one, ..... Or was it caused by that front end parking lot impact???

Don't know what to do as all are defensive and I feel screwed!

 
Rep Power: 518

Of course everyone is defensive.
Nobody wants to admit fault and have to eat the cost of fixing the car properly.
Unfortunately, you are the one that suffers when no one will step up.

(From a professional standpoint, I have more opinions on this situation but will refrain from posting that here.)
I will tell you that this speaks volumes about the integrity of your mechanic.

What ring/clip?


That is part of the job. Replace any suspension parts where wheel alignment can be affected, then the wheel alignment normally goes with it at the same time as part of the job.


I have never seen an original ball joint do this, and I have witnessed some pretty severe crash damage that included severely bent suspension parts.

A properly completed ball joint repair would not have come apart with a mild bump as yours did.
Simply put: Poor job falls apart. Mechanics fault. (IMO)

I have a strong feeling that any good and reputable mechanic would agree with me.
Trouble is, you can't tell who is or isn't worth a darnn. We that might wear a uniform shirt all look the same to most people.
I probably look like a homeless Biker to most people, and I scare children. Clowns fear me.
Small claims court?
Better ask someone else about that. Not me.

If you take your mechanic to court, you will never use him again.
Use the opportunity to seek out better.

 
Rep Power: 367

wo-o-ow...
this is a personal opinion, so don't quote in court - it will not hold...
ball joint came out of the knuckle. not usual, unless it have been removed. it is hard to tell if it is new, damage against the axle could be the cause of it not looking new anyways.
ezone is *likely* right on his statements

 
Rep Power: 367

god...
i was preparing to replace the bearings and ball joint, by disassembling the suspension and taking to a shop to press them out and replacing, but now i will just order a new knuckle and slap them in there, and do the old knuckles at my leisure and keep them as spare parts in the shelf... (already have 1 control arm for that purpose )

 
Rep Power: 518

Thanks for the backup.

I may have been harsh on the mechanic.
I keep forgetting I was once a rookie too, and I made plenty of mistakes along the way......Still do every once in a while.
But I was taught to admit if I was surely at fault, then man up, and we will take care of business.

An informal business motto of a shop I once worked in long ago:
If you like our work now, you should see what happens when we make a mistake!

 
Rep Power: 253

Thank god for cotter pins..

Ill give you an idea of how tight fit that ball joint is pressed into that knucle.

My brother flipped his car and bent the knuckle (Solid STRONG steel) ball joint stud even BENT.. but the ball joint itself NEVER budged..

Mechanics falut. If he dont own up find a new mechanic..

Looks like you need a new axle too. But in any case you lucked out that it wasnt worse then that.