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Hi. I've searched the forums and I've come up short, only because I've already tried a few things.

Car: Honda Civic EX - 2003, 167k miles.

Symptom: When driving, there is a sound that changes pitch with speed. It is very difficult to tell where it is coming from as the sound doesn't appear to reflect off of the guardrails to tell. It is most audible at speeds above 40 mph.

Diagnosis and Tests: I've done the following and the results:

1. Raised each tire and shook, there was NO play or movement.
2. The sound is NOT related to the engine. It occurs at the same pitch in Neutral, D, D3, or D2.
3. It seems to occur sooner in warmer weather than cooler, but it still occurs regardless
4. I rotated tires, front to back, back to crosswise front. The sound appears to come from the same location.
5. The sound does NOT increase or change if I'm turning.
6. The CV joint appears to be in-tact.
7. The front breaks appear to be a bit worn unevenly. I do plan on changing these and the rotors next weekend. The breaking is definitely to the point where I want to change them.

Is there anything else I should look for or try?

Thanks.

 
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Most likely it's the tires, what's the current condition of them and brand?

 
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Sounds like a wheel bearing problem to me

 
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The tires are Toyo Extensa, and pretty new.
If it is the bearings, why is there no play in the tire when I shake it?

Thanks both.

 
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If there's no play it's likely not wheel bearings.

I'm stuck on tires, because you stated that the noise begins more quickly in warm weather and that would be consistent with road noise created by the tires. When's the last time you had an alignment done?

 
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One way to check if its the bearings, is to jack up both front ends on jack stands

blocks behind rear tire, ebrake on
Turn on car, and SLOWLY gas a little

If you hear the same sound while wheels are spinning, its your bearings

Mind you, this is a very dangerous way to check, although the easiest

 
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Yeah....I thought about that....and for the obvious reasons I decided not to.

I did try to spin the tires as fast as I could. The sound I hear is the normal sound of spinning tires. I listened on YouTube for the sounds of bearings and this sound is nothing like it.

 
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Hmm...when I got the tires. Well, TFT did the alignment (horrible) and I had it redone within a week by a shop I trust.

Would there be any other symptoms of a misalignment? The wheel is very steady, straight and around corners.

 
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you can also try turning the front wheels by hand and make sure they spin freely (in N with the ebrake on). if they are rough to turn, or you hear any noises, its bad bearing. its not a guarantee, since some bad bearings do not make noise, and it could be dragging brakes if the wheel is slow to turn but doesnt grind.

alignment being off will only affect whether the car pulls to one side, the steering wheel is off center, or tires wear out faster. it doesnt really affect anything else like vibration or shakes or noises. good alignment means the wheels are pointing straight ahead and thats it.

 
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Inspect your tread pattern, you misalignment can cause uneven wear on your tires

You may have perfectly fine tires in the outer portion of the tire, whereas you might have bald tires on the inside

 
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Exactly and even if the alignment hasn't been out for so long that you have heavy wear inside the tires, the uneven way that the tire tread is contacting the road surface can cause excessive road noise. If you've ever ridden in or driven past a lifted truck with giant mud tires and heard the annoying whhhhhhiiirrrrrrr noise, that's caused by the uneven design of the knobby tire tread.

Do the test that Gearbox recommended also though, the wheel shouldn't spin freely by hand when lifted off the ground in neutral.

 
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I did inspect the tires when I rotated them today. I even rolled them to look for any visual signs of uneven wear, and everything looked ok. After rotating the tires, the noise remained in the same spot (rotated front to back, back to front cross-wise).

When I spun the front tires, there was obvious resistance as you would expect from the brakes but it was smooth and I could still spin them. I didn't see anything abnormal with either side. The rear tires (drum brakes) both spun rather freely.

 
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Then i'm pretty adamant on bearing

If it's just regular tire noise, you'd notice it the first day you got new tires

 
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A friend of mine suggested having the tires checked at TFT to see if the belt slipped. I'll try calling them tomorrow. May be a couple days before I can bring it over. But it looks like from what I'm hearing:
1) Bearing
2) Tires

Thanks everyone.

 
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If it is a bearing, how difficult is it to replace?

Also, could constantly going over speed bumps (not at fast, but the speed desired for the bumps) cause a bad bearing? At work, I have to drive over 7 bumps daily.

 
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Replacing a wheel bearing isn't that difficult, but you either need a hydraulic press or to take the hub to a shop and have them do that portion of the work. My suggestion would be buying a complete replacement hub and replacing the entire assembly, the parts for that should be in the $150 range and you could DIY it in an afternoon with basic hand tools and a torque wrench.

 
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Thanks. My father has one. This will save some cash if it turns out to be the bearing.

Right now though its still questionable. I would assume then if it is the bearing it will get worse?

 
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Yes, it will get worse if it's the bearing.

 
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my old set of tires started out really quiet but after around 5k miles they started to get noisy and would keep getting worse to the point that around 12k miles they were so loud, i thought all my bearings were toast. finally swapped to better tires since the old ones were near slicks, and the car is silent again. so it could be the tires. what brand tire are you using? and how old?

 
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They are Toyo Extensas. I got them a year ago. I'm not sure of the current mileage, but its around 20k.

 
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i did a quick search for reviews, and most people hate those tires. the ratings were 2/5 and 3/5 with many people saying they returned them the next day for something else.

 
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^
I searched as well, but it seems most of the reviewers seemed to hate the tires for the poor handling not excessive road noise. I still think something's up with the tires though, even if the reviews are supporting that thesis.

 
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Thanks for the info.

I've never had issues with the handling. I used to get the Toyo Spectrum until they replaced them with the Extensa. They were always good in summer and really cut through snow and rain well.

 
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Something interesting. The sound has diminished quite a bit. It has been raining yesterday and today with cooler temperatures than when I first posted this. Today, driving in, I noticed the sound was as loud as it was before but halfway into the drive it diminished greatly. It is still there, but less. I wonder what this afternoon will show.

 
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well the temp changes can cause tire psi to change, which then alters how the tire contacts the road and the noise it makes.

 
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'fraid it's tires...

 
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If so, I'm wondering what it is about them. They are young tires.

As soon as it stops raining here I'm going to switch each out with the spare and see if that clears it.

 
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I would suggest finding someone with diff tires that does not make noise, same lugnut pattern in the wheels, swap them in your car and run to see. if noise goes away, it was tires. There is still the fact you rotated but noise kept same place.
PS: One noise i had was a zip tie that fell on the rad fan and was flapping around. Another was a cluncking noise when acc or braking - it was a small glass bottle under the rear seat (no idea how it ended in there). So, look for other stuff too.
could be something stuck in there flapping against brakes or anything else.

 
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An update:

Well, I decided to hold off to see if the sound got louder, softer, or any pattern with weather, road, etc. Nothing.

I have determined it is NOT the tire. I have also determined the problem is in the right rear.

1) I raised the right rear tire off the ground and spun it as fast as I could. There was a distinct light whirr sound, periodic scraping, and a periodic tap.

2) I raised the left rear tire off the ground and spin it as fast as I could (for comparison to the right). The tire spun quietly. In addition, the tire spun for a longer period of time that the right rear given near equivalent forces to spin it.

Any ideas?
Thanks,
Paul

 
Rep Power: 290

Bearing, it's probably your only problem