seattlex19

TWO QUICK THINGS that I should have said two pages ago:

1: When is your court date?

2: CALL the Court Clerk's office first thing tomorrow and ask the clerk straight up whether this campus cop ticket will go on your driving record if the judge rules against you
(If they say no you can forget needing a lawyer after all, and if they say yes you will know for sure it's time to get prepared)

Let us know what you find out!

.

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

court date is on Febuary 8, 2006 @ 8:30. i called their office and they dirrected me to the traffic section of it and they didnt tell me anything. they police station told me how much they were and that it was a moving violation and it will depend on my insurance company if it goes on my record or not

seattlex19

Huh?? Did you call the Court Clerk's office? They should know if it's going to go on your record or not. Call back and try to talk to someone else there until you can get an answer on it, or if they start bouncing you around, just keep asking everyone you get until you get an answer to that question. It's pretty critical to figure that out.

And what do they mean would depend on your insurance company? When I say "will this go on my record" I mean your driving record with the State DMV/DOL not with your insurance company.

At least if you have til Feb 8 you have a month to get ready, that's good

Let me know if you can get an answer out of them

seattlex19

Ohhhh wait, the cops said "moving violation"? Hm. Probably that is going on your driving record then... Still try to get confirmation from the court clerk's office or whoever you can pester into talking to you, if you can

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

the lady that told me how much my ticket was told me that it depends on my insurance company. why, i have no idea. my cousin got a speeding ticket and he got it reduced to non moving nad paid only half of the original price of the ticket and its didnt go on his record

seattlex19

Hmmm.... You are in LA as in Los Angeles?

Well, I have to admit, I'm wondering how "speeding" can be a "non moving" violation! LOL

But hey, the whole goal is just to keep it off your records, any way you can.

The best thing you could hope for would be to get it thrown out. Next best would be a reduction in fine and keep off your record. Then there's a reduction but it goes on your record. Or, they shaft you, full price and on record

The reason I reacted so strongly about having an attorney is just because I've been shafted too many times in cases where I knew I had a valid argument. I've just been burned in court one too many times by judges who were not in a good mood, or were angered by the idiot before me right as I got called up next, etc.

I just don't like taking chances anymore. Here's how my brain works:

Lawyer = $150 and best chance at dismissal due to errors or at least kept off record

Me = $160 face value ticket, maybe reduced, maybe not, on or off record up to luck / mood of judge

That says to me just bring a lawyer. I know that is probably not what you would rather do, so hey, if you think you really have a good chance at keeping it off your record by just going in and stating your case solo, don't let me stop you.

If you pull it off, you could come out spending less than if you hired a lawyer for sure, but if not, and it goes on your record/ins, well...

What is your driving record like right now? Do you have any other tickets in the past?

If you're clean, it's more likely you could get a break even if you go without a lawyer, or that even if they stuck you with it, the one alone may not hurt your rates too badly...

Tough call. I know what I would do, but then again, I only am saying that because I've done it the other way enough times I'm tired of it

seattlex19

WHOA HOLD UP --- have you pointed that code mistake out to the Court clerk's office like jttegx & I mentioned back on page one? I know you said you mentioned to the chief that the ticket had the wrong code on it, and he basically blew you off, then you said you couldn't talk to the DA til court day, which set me off about lawyering-up, but I didn't notice until just now that you never mentioned anything about telling the Court Clerk - or not?

If you have not done that yet, that would be worth a try too, and I mean right away, not on court day. Try the clerk's office and the prosecutor too. Go down there in person with the ticket in your hand if you can (harder to shrug you off in person) or use the phone if you can't. You never know, somebody down there at the court might just throw it out right there. You've got nothing to lose for trying it...
.

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

sorry for the long message but my computer is freakin out and doesnt let me type and periods or commas wtf lol

no i never tried telling that to the clerks office but you know what i am talkin about right

where in the first part they write the number of the traffic violation and then there is a blank line where he writes how you broke that law

well he got the number wrong but wrote i need white headlamps and the chief told me that the number doesnt matter and only what the cop wrote in the blank matters

oh and i am in louisiana

i will probably end up getting a lawyer if it doesnt get fixed or whatever but i think that it can be fixed before hand and if not then i get a lawyer

i think that the stupid campus police tell me that to make me believe theres nothing i can do about so i just pay them and they get some cash

but i have a perfectly clean record and have no accidents but i did get a ticket but i was only 16

i was caught giong 67 in a 45 and passing in a no passing but the passing was dropped since i pleeded guilty and none of it went on my record. THANK GOD!! lol

seattlex19

Well as much as I prefer just kicking my feet up and letting a lawyer do the dirty work, even I am gonna have to stop that train for a minute...

You have a clean record and you have not yet told the court clerk about the erroneous ticket!

Well you might not end up needing a lawyer at all. Somehow when I read your post back there about what "they" told you, I just assumed you meant the court.

IF YOU HAVE NOT INFORMED THE COURT ABOUT THE ERROR ON THE CITED VIOLATION, DO IT NOW

You can call if you want but I would go down there in person with the ticket in my hand and see the Court Clerk, explain to her that you have a clean driving record, and that the officer who stopped you wrote you a "FLAWED" ticket because he cited the wrong violation code!

Don't believe what that chief told you, the chief is not the judge. He may have just told you that to get rid of you.

Go to the clerk and the prosecutor too if the clerk doesn't help you out. Tell them your record is spotless and the ticket is "FLAWED". Explain you were stopped for "European" headlights that have already been replaced with US-spec but the cop wrote you a ticket for driving with lights off. Don't even address what he wrote next to it - FOCUS ON THE CODE because that is what he did wrong. Simply tell them you would like the ticket dropped since it is written for the wrong violation. Just see what they tell you.

They may just can it on the spot - wouldn't that be nice? If they don't, well, then at least you know you tried, and can get back to planning your next move.
.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I am a little confused. The only person who told you it is a moving violation thought that you were driving with out your lights on?
I do not think having the wrong color lights in would count as a moving violation. I got a ticket for tint and that was not a moving violation, its different.

Look it is simple you got a ticket for yellow lights, why would that go on your record?
There is no way that you are going to get a ticket for not having your lights on because that was the reason you were pulled over, because the cop had to see them being yellow, he even wrote that down, yellow not white. The only way you are going to get a moving violation is if the cop lies and says that he stopped you for not having your lights on and then realized they were yellow when you did turn them on, which is pretty thin.

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

i will either have to call the clerks office, or wait until monday to talk to them in person because thats when i go over there agian to start school. i will probably call today, and then go in person when i get back up there too.

i callled the phone number that the cop wrote on the back of the ticket and thats how i found out how much it was. i didnt tell them that he screwed up, i just asked how much the yellow lights one is, and then how much for the one without lights on was. then after that i asked if the yellow lights one would go on my record and make my insurance go up and she told me it would go on my record and probably make my insurance go up, it just depended on my insurance company.

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

okay now i am pissed off!!!

i just called the clerks office and they dirrected me to the traffic court. i tell the lady over the phone the situation about him citing me for the wrong violation, adn she tells me that i have to talk to the chief!! i am like are you serious. i went the day after and he told me that it was out of his hands that he turned it in already. she said that was hard to belive because it doesnt work that fast and all. so anyways she gets my name and number and tells me she has it in her computer and she will pull it up.

she pulls the ticket up and she says theres nothing wrong with it. she tells me it has section 303 headlamps to be white. she says, oh someone must have changed it when they put it in the computer! and that is the copy of the ticket that they will use for all legal proceedings.

so what the hell do i do now? i mean, apparently someone changed it when turning the ticket in. can they actually do that??

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

okay and now i am happy!1

jsut got off the phone with my uncle who is a cop, and he told me to talk to the city prosecuter one the day that they do traffic court any time before my court date and show him my ticket. he said that there is enough inconsistency there for them to throw it out jsut like you guys said. and, he said whoever changed it is in the wrong for tampering with a public document which is illegal. he also told me that theres a good chance it will get thrown out, and if not then to ask for 894. it just means that i pay the fine and the court fees, get a year of unsupervised probation, and if i dont get another ticket then this one dissapears and if i get another one both go on my record

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I still am confused as to why having yellow lights is considered a moving violation, or one that would go on your record. You should have just gotten a fix it ticket or repair order.

seattlex19

Jack, it is hard to say what is going on from this distance - I am in Seattle and you are in MD, and DP is in Louisiana - we really don't have any way to know if the laws there are written out the same way they are where we live. I do know that having yellow lights in my State is USUALLY something that - by itself - you would not even GET a ticket for. You would most likely get a "defective equipment" notice, have X days to fix and get the car inspected by the State Patrol, and it is only if you take longer than X days that they will then convert that into a ticket for noncompliance.

Where DP lives it must be different, but then again, that's also a place where 'speeding' can apparently be considered a 'non moving' violation!

DP, at this point, it hardly matters anymore whether it is for lights out or yellow lights or moving or non moving, the bottom line is simply that that ticket would not stand up in a FAIR court because of the inconsistencies in its being filled out, and now being entered in the system differently too is another interesting thing to know.

LEGALLY speaking they should definitely throw it out... but then we come back to the matter of the court not always doing the legal thing if you are not represented. Now it depends on the integrity of your prosecutor and judge. If left to their own devices, would they choose to do the right thing, or choose to just "push it through" and take your money?

The sad fact is that traffic courts are also revenue makers, and often follow the path of least resistance. Meaning, if it is easy to just give you the old railroad job, they often will, just to bring in money. If you are represented, and they suddenly have to deal with a decent lawyer putting forward your valid arguments instead of "just you", then "push it through" becomes a lot harder and the path usually changes (in your case to dismissal), so they can get on to the next poor slob who might cave in easier!

I do think you have a very strong case for dismissal, even with no lawyer, but it is ALL going to depend now on what kind of guy that prosecutor is, so you need to find THAT out right away.

Find out when the very next traffic court day is, and be there before that day's court session begins. Approach the prosecutor and just tell him flat out you want it dismissed, "and here is why", mention the wrong code AND the code change in the system, and that you have been advised by another law enforcement officer that both of those actions void the ticket.

Then it's on him. Do it as soon as possible. If he's going to shaft you on it, you need as much time left before your actual court date in order to formulate 'plan b'. Let us know what happens next!
.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I totally agree with you from a distance yit is hard to tell. I really have not offered much because you have said most of what needs to be said.

I just smell somehting fishy going on because even though we are in other states, it just sounds ludicris, but like you said speeding reduced to non moving violationLOL WTF! Still somehting is just not right here, I smell something rotten. My instincts tell me something is not adding up, whether is is just the law in LA or this guy is not telling the whole truth, I dunno.

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

I do not mean to discredit you buddy, I am just being honest. You gotta see where I am coming from it just sounds so damn strange!

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

yah i know it sounds unbelievable but its true louisiana just sucks!!!!

i dont know how yall laws are but if you go to my first post i have a link that says headlamps should be white and only white

i plan on goin back to lafayette this weekend(where i got the ticket) and talk to the prosecuter on the day of traffic court nad tell him my situation

the whole thing about speeding reduced to non moving i have no idea

and i do believe my uncle the cop over anyone else that i have talked to so far
he knows the law and follows it

for instance when i got my speeding ticket he could have fixed it but he belived that i did wrong and that i should face the consequences so i know that he understands the law

and why would i lie about this i mean i wouldnt ask for help and then lie about a situation because then what good what it do me to know this information you guys are giving me

yall want me to scan the ticket to put it on here to show yall how the cop screwed it up? lol just playing but i can do it if yall want

seattlex19

I believe you DP because I have been caught up in several equally ridiculous situations with the courts in the past, some of the cases I've gotten sucked into are a lot stranger than this!

I don't think Jack is saying he doubts the law about requiring white lights, what I think he means is just that it's hard to believe that yellow ones would be regarded as a moving violation and not just defective equipment warning.

I smell something fishy too Jack but in my experience that smell is coming from the legal side. The whole thing sounds like a bored security officer with not enough to do hands out a miswritten ticket which gets DP sucked into a traffic court that is very used to just processing people in volume and don't really care what they tell them as long as the line keeps moving.

Sadly that is the case in a LOT - A LOT - of traffic courts. No one really cares about you or whether you are right in those places, they just need to keep processing the cases and you are not much more than another faceless person who with any luck will pay them instead of taking up space in their jail!

One of these days you guys really need to try it with a GOOD lawyer (no not a free one people) - you'd never believe the difference in how you get treated in these situations when it is your good attorney talking to these people. Like night and day!

Anyway, the more we all talk about this, the more convinced I am that DP will not need a lawer for this AS LONG AS THE PROSECUTOR IS NOT A ****. If he is a fair guy he will see immediately the ticket is invalid for those reasons and that will be the end of the story right there. If he says anything else, and you end up heading to court, you can pretty much believe they are going to try to stick you with it, even if they reduce it to make your decision to pay them easier to swallow.

If that happens, your choices would be, bite the bullet and take the deal, pay it and move on with life, or get a lawyer and FORCE them to drop it.

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

thanks for believing me. i know that jack is not doubting me or anything but i just wanted to make everything a little more clear. the thing was that the campus cop came out of nowhere. we met up at an intersection and he turned around to follow me. he must have followed about a quater mile or so and when i turned to go to the store he came to. all up on my *** too!! i stop and throw her in park, look back and he puts the lights on.

i dont know what the deal is with these guys and lights but my roommate got pulled over for having a different color lisence plate light. and he told my roomate that he could issue a ticket for that and he should change the light before a city police stops him.

i do believe that there is something fishy on the law side also. i mean, what they write on the ticket should be correct. i think that he should have checked with someone on the section number before writing it down dont yall think??

my ticket says i have to appear on court on the 8th of feb. i am assuming that traffic court is on wednesdays because the 8th is a wed. i will go and find out for sure first, then talk to the ctiy prosecuter about it and see what he says. my uncle said that i prob would need a lawyer and it could get done on my own, but he said to get a lawyer if i do have to go to be safe.

tommorow i will call and ask when the traffic court days are and then ask when i could talk to the prosecuter. hopefully everything will work out, to my advandtage

seattlex19

One more thing you should consider, if the prosecutor refuses to throw it out, is that - with a clean driving record - you usually only get ONE shot at deferral per every X years. I don't know how many in Louisiana but in Washington I think it's either 5 or 7 years. In other words, if you have a clean record, they will defer prosecution (this is the deal your uncle mentioned where if you go for a year without another ticket then they will not put it on your driving record)

The problem in your case is that you already did that once! AND, the fact it's not on your driving record does NOT mean the court won't know it happened. The court has access to ALL of your records, even for things dropped in the past.

They will probably know you have already had one deferral, which makes it less likely they would give you another one inside the X year period. I have had it happen in the past where one court did not know I had a deferral from another and I got two by (their) accident, so that is possible, but not something to count on. Count on them knowing.

That is one more thing to be thinking about if the prosecutor won't drop it and you have to head to court, your chances of getting another deferral may not be as good as your uncle assumed -- or does he know you already had one?

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

okay i will find out more about that. yah my uncle knows because i tried to get him to fix it for me but he wouldnt because he felt that i needed to learn my lesson. now the only reason he is helping me is because he knows that they are wrong and are gonna take advantage of me being that i am a young college student and all. he is all about doing the right thing, i mean hes not one to help me out just because hes a trooper, i mean he hard core like in the military and stuff lol

seattlex19

Here's a little tale of hope for you, another success story brought to you by me about why having a traffic lawyer really is worthwhile...

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...5325&page=2#30

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

haha cool i will check it out, i am getting the da of my hometown parrish's opion about what he thinks will happen, and he might make a phone call to the lafayette da. oh and seattlex19, and jack, and everyone else that has helped so far, THANKS!! i will rep you if you've help me lol

jackburton

iTrader: (1)

LOL

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

well i just found out a little more info. apparently every parrish has different laws and stuff, so i was told that they reserve the right to change the code like that. i was also told it is a moving violation and the only way it will not go on my record is if i pay the $165 and pay $30 and go to a safe drivers class for 6 hours. what bullsh!t!!

seattlex19

OK WELL, then, that would indeed be a deferral. Who told you that you could get that? Some random person, or the prosecutor's office? Because if they know or find out you've already had one in recent years they would probably not offer you another one. So either the person who told you that did not bother to check your specific case and just gave you general info, or they did check & just don't know or care... maybe they just want the money!

So the math:

Deferral = $165 + $30 + 6 hours + don't get another ticket for a year, assuming they don't withdraw the offer if they discover your previous one

Attorney: Probably $120 to $150 and good (in my layman's opinion) chance of dismissal/drop.

At this point I guess the choice is yours... Let us know what happens!

seattlex19

One more thing, you're kind of taking a risk either way, since if you go for deferral there's no guarantee they won't withdraw the offer, and with an attorney there's no guarantee you'll win. In your shoes I would try to get an attorney or two's opinions on your situation before deciding which route to go. If you do get an attorney make sure they understand you do NOT want to go the deferral route, you want to fight it. Otherwise an attorney (a lazy one) might just take your money then set you up the same deferral deal you're already being offered. Make sure the lawyer understands your interest is in getting it thrown out or dismissed and see what they think your chances are. Just my 2c

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

i called the traffic court and told them everything that happened, told me they have the right too change it, and i asked what do i do not to go on my record. she told me that i just need to take that course and that it. i was never given a defferal before, i was a juvenille, so its different. they told me it wouldnt affect my situation now, unless i get another ticket as an adult.

dp_yz713

iTrader: (12)

i got it totally dropped!! thanks god. i went to the court hose, and got the run around for about half an hour, then i got sent to the DA's office. well i gave the ticket to the secretary and told her my deal with how the ticket was wrong, she came out and told me to hold on they were working on it. in the back of my mind i was thinking they were gonna jus tdrop it, but i didnt wanna think that and still have to pay it. well she came out nad asked where the bulbs were and i told her i sold them, and she asked what i have now and i told her stock white ones. she then comes back out the DA's office and told me its over. i am like, i dont have to go to court or pay anything??? she said no just forget about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

i owe a huge thanks to seattlex19!!!!!!!!! thanks for the help man.

oh adn i told my mom i was going to the court house to talk to the da and she told me not to say anything, jsut find out where to pay for it. well we argued and i said i will handle this.

moral of the story, dont always listen to your mom lol. no im just playing listen to your parents haha