aaron_ex

I have a d17a2 with i/h/e vafcII and a 80 shot.

I was thinking about uping to a 100 or more shot with a p&p head, stage 3 cam, and all new rob bolts, head stuts and head gasket. My question is how much will the stock internals hold, i was thinking about sleeving it, or would a block guard be okay. I dont want to build a turbo motor so please dont recomend it.

BJanzen

iTrader: (2)

Wow, sorry I can't help, but I just gotta say you have some *****. Nitrous scares me past 60 shots on our motors. There is a section somewhere around here about nitrous I believe.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

he'ls 17, young and stupid.....he's got time to make money and buy another motor once he has blow this one out! and hey, he might even learn from it!

BJanzen

iTrader: (2)

Lol I guess.

CanadianCivic02

throw some money into the engine build first, just incase you end up blowing that thing up

goodluck with the 100 shot tho

baron340

iTrader: (4)

dont sleeve it. its just impractical and way too expensive. a block guard might be a good idea but whatever. and just fyi, building for nitrous and building for boost you end up doing the exact same things to your motor.

aaron_ex

wow, no one answered my question

1- im 17 but i have money, i graduated two years early and have a damn good job.

2- im not stupid my best friends dad has a machine shop and im there almost everyday.

3- i have been running a 80 shot for over a year and the motor is still in great shape.

Thanks for NO help. You guys have no faith in these motors huh?

My question was what would you guys recomend on internals, not can i put a 100 shot on stock internals.

02fpcivic

Exact same things??? lmao aside from strengthening the lower end, the top end, compression ratios, intake manifold and header can be completely different.

The stock rods and pistons would be worth upgrading. I would keep the compression ratio close to stock. The ring lands on the D17 motors crack with minimal detonation, the rod bolts do tend to fatigue over time, and the rods are tiny at the pin end.

If you arent going to build the motor and you want to see how long a stocker will last, get a progressive nitrous controller so you dont shock everything with one big hit. You will also need to get something set up to retard the timing, this is very important. I'd also recommend a direct port for anything over 100 shot. I wouldnt go much more than that with a stock motor but around here junkyards get 500 or less for d17s hehe.

Call ngk and ask for a plug one step colder than what you have. Dont use zex plugs they are garbage IMO. Every race we go to I walk around and see what professional teams are using and the majority use NGK, from alcohol funny cars to turbo mustangs. We use them in our cars and they are always on the money. Your gap could be anywhere from .032 to .028. Basically what you want to do is have it as big as you can without it blowing out the spark .030 should be fine but if it feels flat on the top end, its likely blowing out the spark, tighten up the gap. Don't confuse spark blow-out with dentonation, they feel similar....untill something bad happens, hehe.

aaron_ex

thanks that what i was thinkking. I have a 2 step colder non resistor plug right now. Im going to get an adjustible cam gear. Build the bottom and top end and get it tunned on nitrous.

02fpcivic

I'd use a resistor plug. They help cut down on EMI. A DIS ignition is probably better to run with a resistor. Dont bother with the cam gear. It does nothing to your ignition timing. It basically moves the power curve around with negative effects. Where the stock cam is set from the factory is best. Dont mind some of the haters on here. There are some guys that are really knowledgable here but there are also a lot of guys that think because they dont see something on the cover of Honda Tuning its not the right way to go. Most of those guys cant wrench there way out of a paper bag anyway.

aaron_ex

what is the best EMS other than kpro?

baron340

iTrader: (4)

ok..so now i want to know what the difference between a full turbo build and full nitrous build is. for a turbo you still change the pistons and rods, and to my knowledge the only aftermarket pistons made are 8.8:1, so unless you go custom thats a bit of a limited option. he said he wanted a stage 3 cam, works the same for turbo along with the valve train. other than the intake manifold, i dont really see whats different. since you seem to be the authority, what would the difference be with a nitrous mani compared to a turbo mani.

02fpcivic

Nothing, its the same. I forgot, you can only buy the parts that are in the catalogs. Seeing how there aren't certain parts available I think it would be best to give up and not do anything at all.

02fpcivic

The common misconception that the manufacturers push is that all F/I is the same. The truth is that its not. The dynamics of nitrous and boost are two different beasts altogether. For one, boost, positive plenum pressure, basically needs the least restrictive way into the engine, seeing that the engine doesnt need to draw the air in. As for intake manifolds, the runners are usually short and fat and the plenum is usually bigger to make sure that there is a sufficient amount of air to feed the engine. Intercoolers and extra fuel cool the charge, the lower compression keeps compressed air and fuel charge more stable. The head usually is ported with the volume taking priority over velocity, seeing as the boost keeps thing moving along. The cam is cut in a way that allows the engine to use the boost to scavenge the exhaust from the cylinders as well. Boosted engines are very simple in comparison to n/a or nitrous builds.

A nitrous build usually goes much like a n/a build seeing as the engine still draws a good amount of air/fuel in on its own. The engines air fuel draw is then supplimented with oxygen, nitrogen, and fuel, (NO2+extra fuel). The charge feeds and cools the motor all in the same step but the exhaust end still needs a damn good header to expell and scavenge the bigger burn. Since there is no on demand supply of boost to push the charge out, the header and cam are key parts in getting the exhaust evacuated. The head needs to flow fast enough for scavenging to work properly, but not restrict the flow in doing so. Going too big on a pnp with result in lazy flow, too small will choke the engine up. There is a VERY fine line here and very few people understand the theory, I leave that stuff up to the pros, its a black art.

The best bet for nitrous is to build a 10:1 compression engine with a custom cut nitrous cam, a mild pnp job, a nice custom intake manifold to match the cam, and a long tube header. If you call crower they usually have cam blanks that they will custom cut for usually no extra charge or if a greater charge, not as much as you might think. They will help figure out just what you need.

You can get descent power over stock parts with off the shelf stuff, but double that if you use parts specifically designed for what you are trying to do. Just slapping on bigger parts can get you gains, but having everything work together properly pays big dividends without too much more work and money. Lets face it, with these tiny motors, 15-20hp can be a big difference.

civicsrcool

^^ one of the civicforum gods speak.. bow. :bow:

02fpcivic

Oh, heres my resume. In case I'm not qualified. I know its not on topic but I think I've contributed enough to the thread that it will be ok, haha.

The shop car. At just 5 psi it makes about 460 whp and 425 ft/lbs. It will make about 800whp as it sits. Simple and reliable.

baron340

iTrader: (4)

i was thinking from the catalog perspective from a more practical point of view rather than a whats possible point of view. and i honestly thought the cost for a custom ground cam would be way out of the normal budget, same for pistons. that is some great info, thanks for filling in my ignorance.

p.s. that is one sick shop car.

02fpcivic

Custom parts are much easier to obtain then most people realize. I wasn't trying to be a dick. Everyone got on this kid's *** for posting this up, I was trying the same stuff 4 years ago on these cars with good success.

aaron_ex

yeah. Just because i decide not to boost or k swap its funny? Why because it hasnt really been done. If everyone was scared to try something new then we would all be driving stock *** d17's. With enough time and research this can be done easily. I know of people running 125 shots on STOCK d16's.

02fpcivic thank you for some inteligent and informitive answers.

and i talked to my buddys dad who ones a machine shop and he said he can find the pistons that i need for a fair price.