Rep Power: 0

Hey guys, I recenty got boosted but I notice I'm not getting any power even when my pressure goes up to 8 PSI. My wideband reads an afr of 10.5 under WOT and sometimes even richer than that. Beleive it or not, those are with my stock injectors with a rich map on emanage. I have the type-s injectors but just haven't put them in yet. Timing is mapped to be about -1 deg per psi. Is it because I'm running too rich? I know that lean conditions are where the power is at(just too unsafe to be practical) but i mean 8psi should give me SOME noticeble power even if i'm running rich. I will eventually work on the maps to get 12.5 afr but the way its feeling right now i doubt id get any more power even if i did so. Perhaps my down pipe is too narrow? (2.125") I mean the turbo spools up nicely at around 2500 rpm... just not getting any push all. Any thoughts?

 
Rep Power: 423

Thats a pretty small DP, but you should still be making something. Small DP would probably make some low end, but then choke off the top. If the stock cat is still on there, there's a 1 3/4" donut on the back side of it that needs to come out, or get a high flow.
Too rich is definitely taking away power.
What wideband are you using? I definitely don't trust the stock injectors with 8 lbs of boost and a rich reading.
How is e-manage set
and are you 100% sure that VTEC (if applicable) is functioning. Cuz if it isn't, you won't make any power. Check wiring for that.

Also, is your basis for no power ***-dyno? Or real dyno?

 
Rep Power: 0

Well, basically, I have an LX. HKS manifold with 2.125" DP welded to 2" aftermarket cat and 2.5" exhaust. There is nothing smaller than 2" in my exhaust system from the turbo-back. I have no-vtec. Thing is, my PLXm300 wideband is giving me correct readings because when I cruise, I run at about 14.6-14.7 afr... so for what its worth, I know that its fuctions ok. As for me feeling of power, its not from a dyno, I just feel no diff after turbo-ing it. Even my GF says it feels like nothing added so it's not just me. My HKS EVC reads .56 kg/cm^2 max, which i set for 8psi and i still run rich. My emanage settings are only about +12% @ 2000rpm to about +40% @ 7000 rpm for 2.05 pressure sensor voltage. Thats when my AFR reads about 10.5 and lower. And just now, my check engine light went on, so I believe I ran so rich that I'm throwing codes... How is that possible on stock injectors? I did nothing to the fuel system.

 
Rep Power: 327

Too much timing retard, and too rich will cost BIG power! The most timing im pulling is 2 degrees, anymore and it hurt power. Your prolly over driving the the injectors and it is possible but it will cause problems in the long run i've been told.

 
Rep Power: 0

ok, I will test it by reducing the timing, as for the fuel enrichment.....I guess I'll try trimming that too, but kinda nervous since they're stock injectors..... Maybe I'll try 10%@2000 rpm - 30%%7000rpm and see what happens.

 
Rep Power: 327

it took me WEEKS to get my tunning even remotely close. I takes lots of time to get it dialed in. Maybe im slow or just **** ...

 
Rep Power: 349

Do you have a boost gauge that is actually reading pressure in your pipes or are you going off of a setting that you have with your boost control? Sounds to me like a pipe isn't connected somewhere, you should feel a difference.

 
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I was thinking that too, but then my bov goes off with i let off the throttle. So that should mean that the pressure is held in ok.
So, I leaned the map out and made the timing -1 from 0 - 4 psi -2 deg from 4 psi upwards. Still, no kick. The turbo spools up bigtime but theres nothing happening. Wierd cuz i'm reading boost....but it seems like there is no boost, that would explain why i'm rich even on stock injectors...... i have no idea whats going on.

 
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Make sure you do not have a crack in your charge pipes or something. What sized turbo as well? I have recently ridden in someone's T25 based turbo, which made decent power in 1-3rd, but died on 4th and 5th.

 
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Is it possible that your clutch is slipping? Thats real wierd. You should feel some difference, even running rich and pulling too much timing. Your engine is seeing boost, but its not getting to the wheels. Thats wierd.

I miss my turbo LX, lol. And my Legacy GT.....especially.....238wtq....in an 5EAT

 
Rep Power: 320

are you talking about pat's car?

 
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I'm running a t25. My clutch is exedy stage 1. Pipes are all good, t-bolted and welded. No cracks. You know what i'm thinking? I think i have a faulty boost controller. I think the actuator/solenoid is stuck open because now I'm not seeing boost past 3psi no matter what psi i'm setting it to. I'm going to try and disco the electronic boost controller and disco the vacuum lines to the internal wastegate. I think the EVC is giving me screwed up boost readings also, that should explain the richness and no gain in power. I'm gonna use real-time logging with the emanage greddy sensor to see what PSI i'm actually getting. Keep you guys posted

 
Rep Power: 271

where is your boost gauge tapped into? maybe the boost is not getting into the throttle body. just my 2cents. good luck keep us posted.

 
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My boost gauge is part of my boost controller. There is a digital display for boost and vacuum levels, which is tapped from a vacuum manifold off of the brake booster line. AND THAT I FOUND MY PROBLEM. Faulty boost controller. I installed my friends' greddy profec boost controll for a test and I got 8psi. But still, i'm running a AFR of 11-12 on +15% @ 2000rpm to +25% @ 6500 rpm all at 2.05 greddy sensor volts on stock injectors. Why am i so rich still? Power is 'kinda there' not really. Still slow.

 
Rep Power: 280

Stock injector's duty cycle cant support more than that much (2-3 psi) Obviously, if you keep adding psi w/o extra fuel you'll run lean. So your engine gets enough fuel for ~3 psi (this is what it makes it feel faster, but not fast enough), but with psi increasing it becomes too lean at about 5000 rpm and then it feels like you're running against very strong wind (Am I right of whats happening after ~5k rpm?)

If this scenario fits your situation, than you need to upgrade to rsx-s injectors regardless. In my opinoin you just running to lean and a/f distructing you, that you think that you're OK with your a/f. I think it is giving you incorrect A/F readings after boost goes 2-3psi + w/stock injectors.

 
Rep Power: 302

sounds more like a boost leak than anything. even with an incorrect tune it should produce power way beyond stock. if anything it should throw a lean condition with the CEL on.

 
Rep Power: 304

I'm with you on this one.. I had a simular issue when i first installed my kit, i wasnt making boost, some settings were off with the BC. I would go with that first to see what happens.

 
Rep Power: 291

I thought it wouldve been because of the stock injectors too but when I was talking to him yesterday it was hard to really be sure. Hey maybe switching to RSX-S injectors will do the trick??

Let me know! and add me to msn lol

 
Rep Power: 299

defently put those type s injectors in! dont even fool with the stock ones. it take about an hour to switch them and makes a huge difference in power and performance. it still sounds to me like u have a boost leak or something. u need to PRESSURE TEST YOUR PIPES and if that doesnt work get it on a dyno. i undersatnd u want to do as much of this as u can, as do i with my car, but sometime u cant fix everything by yourself from in the car or by trying to figure it out yourself.

 
Rep Power: 280

I'm still sticking to my opinoin, as this guy is to lean w/stock injectors and not getting fuel he needs to run well on 8psi.
You need to change injectors, with your set up, there is no way around it.

 
Rep Power: 271

i was wondering what are you tuned on? i am boosting 5psi on stock injectors with an sf fmu but someone said here that stock injectors are only good for 2-3 psi? i have the injectors sitting around but i was told not to use the rsx s injectors with the fmu. is this true or should i put in the rsx s injectors?

 
Rep Power: 327

Dont use the rsx injectors unless you have some sort of way to control them like e-manage or another piggyback/stand alone

 
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Ok, I do have the type-s injectors, just haven't put em in yet cuz I'm not leaning out at 2.5V (greddy sensor) real-time display. My total injector duty cycle reaches 90% at that level, dangerous, I know, I know but afr seems ok & 12.5 right across the rpm range. As i initially started this thead i was not making ANY power, now it's slowly coming as i fixed the boost control issue and started LEANING out the map and pulling the timing only conservatavely.
BTW, at 2.50V, what PSI does that work out to? My new contoller reads and limits boost @ .41 bar, which is like 6psi, but i'm dispaying 2.50V (greddy sensor) on the real time display. Thats sounds wrong....is it?

 
Rep Power: 280

Leave timing stock and drive it, see if you feel the "gain", if you dont feel improvement, then it is not timing, timing adjustment is more like fine tuning, rather necessity, for 6 psi you can leave it stock.

At this point I'd have to presume that your a/f readings are incorrect for whatever reason, and the bottom of your problem is that you're lean.

With stock injectors and with stock fuel preassure you can only support 2-3 psi max, there is no magic to that, you're lean, period.

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok, I got the injectors in, as everyone is saying, whats the bestway to lean them during idle, startup. I notice I'm rich as a b!tch. Using inectors maps only add fuel. Am I supposed to adjust the airflow map?

 
Rep Power: 304

you can remove fuel with the airflow adjustment. mostly that is used for fine tuning but obvisouly you cant remove fuel any other way.

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok, thanks for the tip.
One last thing guys, once the type-s injectors were installed, the engine bogs when i hit WOT and only when I hit WOT. It feels like the engine quits completely. How do I solve that with the support tool?

 
Rep Power: 280

^^^
Now, this is the point where you can start tuning.

Do you get Check Engine Light (CEL)? Yes/No

Does engine bogs at WOT under load or only at idle?

If idle - might be too rich, if under load - poss. too lean.

 
Rep Power: 0

No cel at all.
Engine idles rich, at about 11.3 afr
drives rich at 12.5 afr on normal driving. (Should be closed loop which should give me 14.7 afr I dunno why its not....)
9.5-10 afr in boost( pressing accelerator to the bottom GRADUALLY)
Engine bogs and almost stalls if I suddenly hit the accelerator to the bottom even when I'm reving from 2000-3000 rpm(under load)

I'm running soooo rich with no fuel enrichment done to the injector map. To be honest, my car pulled soo much harder with the stock injectors tuned at up to +30%, and I had no pinging or cel's.

I should put -ve values for Airflow adjustment to lean out normal driving afr's, right?
And what should I do with the anti-stall and accelerator maps?