Alright you motor heads.... I'M IN BUSINESS
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 
Alright you motor heads.... I'M IN BUSINESS
The car was dynoed about 2 hours ago. It made no power. By no power, I mean 106.7 HP at 5693 RPM. It made 122.2 lb-ft at 3689. Now anyone who knows what a constant 6.1 PSI should do knows that SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT.
The following have been ruled out...
Boost leak
Vac leak
heat soak
tuning (it just got tuned)
inlet restriction (only gains .8 HP w/o filter)
Pretty much leaves exhaust restriction. The shop guys say they've seen on WRXs that run too rich where the honeycomb in the cat fuses, and creates a big clog in the system... Given that the car has apparently been running about 9.6:1 for the last week, I could see this happening, but I'm open to any and all educated thoughts as to what I need to be looking for. The motor is quite healthy, no funny sounds, ticks, pings, etc..... and on the road, the enormous midrange is a friggen blast, but we all know shop guys included, the car's short at least 40 HP. SO WTF?
I'm on my way to work right now, I'll scan the HP, TQ and AF curves.
The following have been ruled out...
Boost leak
Vac leak
heat soak
tuning (it just got tuned)
inlet restriction (only gains .8 HP w/o filter)
Pretty much leaves exhaust restriction. The shop guys say they've seen on WRXs that run too rich where the honeycomb in the cat fuses, and creates a big clog in the system... Given that the car has apparently been running about 9.6:1 for the last week, I could see this happening, but I'm open to any and all educated thoughts as to what I need to be looking for. The motor is quite healthy, no funny sounds, ticks, pings, etc..... and on the road, the enormous midrange is a friggen blast, but we all know shop guys included, the car's short at least 40 HP. SO WTF?
I'm on my way to work right now, I'll scan the HP, TQ and AF curves.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 yes stock cat... believed to be the issue. Going to take it off and look up there this weekend... may need to try out one of those snazzy Carsound OBDII cats. No BC, just the WG, the dyno logged boost at a very near constant 6 psi from 3000 to redline, no major dips or spikes.
The final numbers blanked out
the bottom line is 122.2 lb ft, 60 MPH, 3689
106.7 HP, 93 MPG, 5693 RPM
Other question is does that look like no VTEC to anyone?
The final numbers blanked out
the bottom line is 122.2 lb ft, 60 MPH, 3689
106.7 HP, 93 MPG, 5693 RPM
Other question is does that look like no VTEC to anyone?
Last edited by Boilermaker1; Apr 18, 2006 at 04:00 PM.
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Rep Power: 280 Look at my graph. The run include Magnaflow Cat and muffler silencer.
I have extremely massive bottom end. I think its due to not-so-high-flowing catalytic.
Thaaf dyno'd 170whp on his auto LX @ 7 psi (?) without cat.
With extremely similar set up, yes you're at least 60 whp short.
I'd definately try demo run w/o cat at all. At least you'll be able to see how much of a difference there is.
I'm getting test pipe, so I can see what it is w/o cat.
I have extremely massive bottom end. I think its due to not-so-high-flowing catalytic.
Thaaf dyno'd 170whp on his auto LX @ 7 psi (?) without cat.
With extremely similar set up, yes you're at least 60 whp short.
I'd definately try demo run w/o cat at all. At least you'll be able to see how much of a difference there is.
I'm getting test pipe, so I can see what it is w/o cat.
Wish I had a Turbo 3)
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From: South Dakota
Rep Power: 0 
hmmm does it feel like 120 hp or does it feel like 170 hp cuz i'd say that if it isnt making any funny noises and theres no leaks or anything like that, i'd say the dyno is messed up.
7thgen Power Maker
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From: Buffalo, NY, US
Rep Power: 0 Experiment for bioler. Crawl under the car and undo the portion of pipe with the cat on it. Drive car and see if it feels more powerful. Open downpipe will rule out cat and exhaust restriction.
BTW carsound suck *** hardcore..............no wonder why they are so cheap.
Furthermore, do you have a boost gauge hooked up? Does it sit at 6 PSI?
BTW carsound suck *** hardcore..............no wonder why they are so cheap.
Furthermore, do you have a boost gauge hooked up? Does it sit at 6 PSI?
Last edited by dezod; Apr 18, 2006 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 yeah, I've got a boost gauge hooked up, and I have a WB A/F hooked up..... they both were in complete agreement with the ones hooked up to the dyno computer.
Saturday I'm going to rip some stuff apart. I'll try and run open DP.... gonna take it to someone's house in the boonies, and make sure I have a code deleter handy.
If you've got other suggestions for other high flows that are OBDII legal (as in its got an O2 sensor port).... then I'm listening.
Saturday I'm going to rip some stuff apart. I'll try and run open DP.... gonna take it to someone's house in the boonies, and make sure I have a code deleter handy.
If you've got other suggestions for other high flows that are OBDII legal (as in its got an O2 sensor port).... then I'm listening.
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: edwardsville, illinois (near stl.)
Rep Power: 295 sounds like a clog in the exhaust pipe or downpipe or something, because the torque number isn't that far off of what it should be, check restrictions I guess!
good luck man!
good luck man!
7thgen Power Maker
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Rep Power: 0 Dumping fuel into a cat will cause failure VERY soon. A week of DD is more than enough to fry the brick.
I would say do a 2.25" or a 2.5" Random Tech cat. They are the best flowing, but no matter what if your throwing fuel into a cat, it will fail.
I would say do a 2.25" or a 2.5" Random Tech cat. They are the best flowing, but no matter what if your throwing fuel into a cat, it will fail.
Originally Posted by Boilermaker1
yeah, I've got a boost gauge hooked up, and I have a WB A/F hooked up..... they both were in complete agreement with the ones hooked up to the dyno computer.
Saturday I'm going to rip some stuff apart. I'll try and run open DP.... gonna take it to someone's house in the boonies, and make sure I have a code deleter handy.
If you've got other suggestions for other high flows that are OBDII legal (as in its got an O2 sensor port).... then I'm listening.
Saturday I'm going to rip some stuff apart. I'll try and run open DP.... gonna take it to someone's house in the boonies, and make sure I have a code deleter handy.
If you've got other suggestions for other high flows that are OBDII legal (as in its got an O2 sensor port).... then I'm listening.
One:
Take the stock cat and gutted use a metal bar and chop at the insides till is all clean, leave nothing in there, nothing, wash it very good with a high pressure hose and make sure to remove the sensor first.
Then re- install it back on the car.
There will be no check engine light.
Even if this is not your problem, the car will run better.
Two:
Get an aftermarket cat then weld a bong for the 02 sensor on the pipe right after the cat.
I converted my LX to an EX type exhaust to accomodate a DC header back in 2001 when our Civic came out.
There was no check engine light afterwards and I had to cut and patch the wires cause I had to extend the harness, that was the only mod to my engine back then so I know it works.
other suggestions
Replace booth 02 sensors, your engine will run better.
Check your spark plugs.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 The plugs are fine, we pulled them. The primary O2 sensor is new, as is the WB, the one in the cat is original.
If the O2 after the cat works, then the High flow is probably the most viable option.... it needs to at least be capable of passing a tail pipe test (it seems random whether they pull codes or actually pipe the car for emissions).... exploring all options, but I'm going to pull the cat off this weekend and look in it to see whats up.
At least everyone seems to be on the same page here, thats good that its not a random pile of crap to look at.
If the O2 after the cat works, then the High flow is probably the most viable option.... it needs to at least be capable of passing a tail pipe test (it seems random whether they pull codes or actually pipe the car for emissions).... exploring all options, but I'm going to pull the cat off this weekend and look in it to see whats up.
At least everyone seems to be on the same page here, thats good that its not a random pile of crap to look at.
well an easy way to check for clogged cat, ive done it at work
start the car and let it get hot, then look down at the cat, if its red hot before it only its clogged. otherwise get a temp gauge (one that shoots infrared and reads, or touchit real quick) and check before and after cat, a difference will show a clogged cat.
start the car and let it get hot, then look down at the cat, if its red hot before it only its clogged. otherwise get a temp gauge (one that shoots infrared and reads, or touchit real quick) and check before and after cat, a difference will show a clogged cat.
Smuggling bananas and mexicans all for one low price...
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From: Langley AFB, VA
Rep Power: 396 My votes for the cat being clogged. you said you were running pig rich, and on a stock cats thats supper clingy in the first place, I'm sure it got turned into a giant paperweight.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 It flutters between 11.25 and 11.5. Its not a bad AF, but it needs to be uncorked.
Right now its got a TQ curve like a volkswagen.
Right now its got a TQ curve like a volkswagen.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
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From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424
Originally Posted by Curiouz_G
if ya need ne help boiler, dont hesitate to ask 
oh btw, i know this is off topic, but are you coming to HIN?
oh btw, i know this is off topic, but are you coming to HIN?
yeah i had thr same problem when i had my turbo kit on...i went to get it dynod at 6lbs and i ended up making 108hp...i have the graph somewhere, and i checked everything and the shop did 2 and they couldnt find anything wrong with it..besides the point that i was running pig rich.
nope i just took the kit off cause then i start blowing fuses..
that is correct! im not going to waste money on something that isnt going to give me all that much anyways...so i took it off...you end up spend more money then its even worth for some BS gain..
now i have pently of money and looking for a car with potential...
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler
I think he never found and and just took it off lol
that is correct! im not going to waste money on something that isnt going to give me all that much anyways...so i took it off...you end up spend more money then its even worth for some BS gain..
now i have pently of money and looking for a car with potential...
Last edited by exturbo6; Apr 19, 2006 at 07:51 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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From: familycar's Moms Room
Rep Power: 299 Boiler, Did are you sure that the dyno you used was accurate? You should be putting out ATLEAST 160-175 whp, 150-170 trq with the gt28r at 6 psi, probley more if you had a front mount.
If your cat is "clogged" than youll be putting out massive black smoke, from burning the unused fuel left in the exhaust.
GOOD LUCK!!! any CELS?
If your cat is "clogged" than youll be putting out massive black smoke, from burning the unused fuel left in the exhaust.
GOOD LUCK!!! any CELS?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 13,151
Likes: 3
From: Washington DC
Rep Power: 424 no, no cels. We're gonna look at some fun stuff this weekend. I'm gonna pick up a high flow anyways, it'll make my life easier I guess. They say the dyno was accurate, and they put down a little over 170 w/ a stock WRX the day before, which IIRC is about right, so I don't think it crapped overnight, the car's performance on the road seems to match the graph, ginormous midrange, then sudden flatline at 4K. Something is wrong with the car itself, the curves don't even match the power band of the engine.
I'll get to the bottom of this, I always do.
I'll get to the bottom of this, I always do.
